pro life, po suicide or pro choice

[1964dodge]

I would consider myself pro - choice. but, I think suicide should be a last resort and not done for something that can get better. if a girl loses a bf then odds are she'll find another one probably a better one so it's not worth it in my opinion. if you suffer from mental health or physical pain you should do everything possible to get better and try to learn how to cope. and people should always have a minimum time to wait before action, this way they don't do it by impulse. if things are too much to cope and you have tried then I say it's a persons choice. they have to take everything under consideration first god if they believe, family/friends possible failed attempt etc. I think everyone should have a choice if they are competent to make the decision but have weighed everything carefully first. this is no joke this is your life so be sure

 

[not_a_robot]

Ah yes, the usual
"Suicide For Me, But Not For Thee!"
argument.
"Pro-choice" doesn't mean you get to be the one who decides whether others are allowed to make that choice.

 

[1964dodge]

all 'm basically saying is that a suicide that wasn't thought out carefully can be an uneccessary tradgedy, but a suicide when you're sure is sometimes a much needed release of pain either emotional or physical. so yes we should be sure no matter what we choose, because choosing life can also be undue suffering

 

[Soul]

... "Pro-choice" means we're each making up our own minds here, and I'm the only one who can assess whether or not my life is worth living.

@1964dodge, your views are your views, but please bear in mind that all of us here are already coping with the strong anti-choice attitudes in society that force us to consider hard and unpleasant things like dosing ourselves with SN without antiemetics or trying to smash a plexiglass wall with a sledgehammer. There's no sensible reason why I should have to resort to things like that instead of being offered professional assistance with a dignified death, but society remains obstinate about it.

 

[Subhuman]

you should do everything possible to get better and try to learn how to cope

And who decides if/when you've done 'everything possible'? According to the experts, there's always a new drug to try. You could spend your entire life trying out new meds and/or new combinations of meds. I have a friend who's been doing just that. Her depression was labeled "treatment resistant" when she was in her 50's because she'd been suffering from it since childhood. They performed ECT on her and she lost over half of her memories and skills. It had no effect on her depression btw. She's still on antidepressants. Which still don't work.

It's all nice and good to have these principles for yourself. But no one can know, and no should be able to decide, what an individual's limits are. Because in the meantime, while you're being forced to try 'everything possible', guess what... you're still suffering.

 

[Jean Améry]

if you suffer from mental health or physical pain you should do everything possible to get better and try to learn how to cope

I strongly disagree with this part of your post. If 'everything possible' means treatments that are likely to harm you on the off chance it might work I don't think that's rational at all. Plus as already indicated in this thread it raises the question of what would fall under that criterium.

Imo no-one but parents (who voluntarily took it upon themselves to procreate) have an obligation to 'learn how to cope' with lasting mental and/or physical pain. Especially not if it greatly impairs quality of life which is usually the case. If I had schizophrenia and this reduced my life to living like a zombie, cut off from everyone and with zero chance of leading even a semblance of normal life I would CTB in a heartbeat. Even if it meant by a method I find abhorrent.

I'm a big proponent of rational suicide (reasoned, based on correct information, not rushed, by a humane method) but I do think in the end it's up to the individual since it's impossible for another to accurately gauge one's pain and what one is still willing/able to endure.

 

[done_so_done]

Well you do understand that we've heard it all from medical professionals, and media, and friends, and family, and...and...and
The reason for this post, please?!

 

[1964dodge]

And who decides if/when you've done 'everything possible'? According to the experts, there's always a new drug to try. You could spend your entire life trying out new meds and/or new combinations of meds. I have a friend who's been doing just that. Her depression was labeled "treatment resistant" when she was in her 50's because she'd been suffering from it since childhood. They performed ECT on her and she lost over half of her memories and skills. It had no effect on her depression btw. She's still on antidepressants. Which still don't work.

It's all nice and good to have these principles for yourself. But no one can know, and no should be able to decide, what an individual's limits are. Because in the meantime, while you're being forced to try 'everything possible', guess what... you're still suffering.

of course the individual decides when it's time. I simply think everyone should be certain that it's the right choice to make. it is entirely up to them when they do it but I think they have to be competent enough to make the decision. simply try to make your life worth living if they can't then do as they wish.
ok maybe I wasn't clear my mistake sorry. I simply mean that you should be sure that you can't get better and also that you can't have a good quality of life. I mean everyone should weigh all the options and always have a cooling off period to make sure it's not an impulsive decision, maybe only 24 hours. it's a shame for anybody to commit suicide needlessly, but I agree it's our choice. I don't care if it's because of pain or you don't like your hair it's still ultimately your choice. I just say look at everything because there is no turning back. I hope I made this more clear. and if people still disagree this is my opinion

 

[done_so_done]

of course the individual decides when it's time. I simply think everyone should be certain that it's the right choice to make. it is entirely up to them when they do it but I think they have to be competent enough to make the decision. simply try to make your life worth living if they can't then do as they wish.

Yeah, I think that we got that idea already. And do you really think that people hang themselves or poison themselves just for fun of it?! Like they are not sure?! How very simplistic....no wonder people are suicidal with statements like these....

 

[TAW122]

I'm also on the same page as well. I'm pro-choice, but I also encourage others to seek out solutions and think it through before acting. Suicide is one of the actions (if successful) is permanent and there is no going back once it's done. I also highly discourage those who are too young and/or haven't thought it through enough to know which methods are effective and whether they may recover. I'm not saying that people shouldn't do it, just that they need to be 100% certain and sure that they are going to without regret.

 

[SinisterKid]

2 unsuccessful attempts 3 yrs ago. Severe depression and anxiety diagnosed. Done therapy, taken my meds, CBT, DBT, WRAP, got told I was "stable" discharged from therapy. 3 years later, I am now back to square one. Am I rational? Am I of sound mind able to make a competent and informed decision?

So please, do share with me your opinion on how exactly I can "get better" and "learn to cope" because so far, no one else has managed to achieve jack shit, so you might as well have a go. I know and I understand its your opinion and you are entitled to it. But its my opinion that you dont have much of a fucking clue what you are talking about or trying to convey here, so therefore, your opinion is null and void in this context. That my friend, is the polite version because I am feeling charitable and the impolite version would probably end up in a ban.

 

[Conflicted Cat]

A lot of us have already tried all we can. And it's never enough. That's why we're here.

 

[MAIO]

I would consider myself pro - choice. but, I think suicide should be a last resort and not done for something that can get better. if a girl loses a bf then odds are she'll find another one probably a better one so it's not worth it in my opinion. if you suffer from mental health or physical pain you should do everything possible to get better and try to learn how to cope. and people should always have a minimum time to wait before action, this way they don't do it by impulse. if things are too much to cope and you have tried then I say it's a persons choice. they have to take everything under consideration first god if they believe, family/friends possible failed attempt etc. I think everyone should have a choice if they are competent to make the decision but have weighed everything carefully first. this is no joke this is your life so be sure

1) How did you determine life is superior to death? How did you determine life is superior to death for another individual? Are you all knowing?

2) What are death, life, and consciousness itself?

3) Furthermore, religious people generally claim they believe they are in a far better state once they are dead, so if we accept their view as accurate, how would they be better off alive?

 

[Pilum Muralis]

I would love to live long enough to die of old age. I won't. I've been dealing with my problems for 20 years, with it just getting progressively worse. The pain is affecting me mentally. I'm not the same person I was. I'm a wretch. A burden. Every doctor I have seen has told me the same garbage. "You'll never be pain free". I'm sick of being so drugged up it messes with my thoughts and memories. I don't want to die. I want to live happily ever after. I won't. I can't. I just bide my time until my husband is gone, so I can join him if there is an afterlife, and if not, at least I'll finally be pain free. Some days, I wonder if I'll be able to make it that long, and won't just ctb one morning.
And about trying to learn to cope? That's kind of offensive. To say just learn to cope is belittling, and just more pro-life platitudes many here have had to deal with. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, and what you're saying is coming from a good place. I haven't been a member very long, but the posts I have read are by people hurting, emotionally and physically, over long periods of time. Many people here have been failed by doctors, family, therapists..etc. Where else can people get help, when the help constantly fails you? I've given up, and my decision to ctb was not easy. It was agonizing, but I've come to terms with it. It's almost comforting knowing I have control over my life.
Sorry if I rambled, but Percocet and a White Russian make for a nice warm fuzzy buzzy.

 

[MAIO]

I would love to live long enough to die of old age. I won't. I've been dealing with my problems for 20 years, with it just getting progressively worse. The pain is affecting me mentally. I'm not the same person I was. I'm a wretch. A burden. Every doctor I have seen has told me the same garbage. "You'll never be pain free". I'm sick of being so drugged up it messes with my thoughts and memories. I don't want to die. I want to live happily ever after. I won't. I can't. I just bide my time until my husband is gone, so I can join him if there is an afterlife, and if not, at least I'll finally be pain free. Some days, I wonder if I'll be able to make it that long, and won't just ctb one morning.
And about trying to learn to cope? That's kind of offensive. To say just learn to cope is belittling, and just more pro-life platitudes many here have had to deal with. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, and what you're saying is coming from a good place. I haven't been a member very long, but the posts I have read are by people hurting, emotionally and physically, over long periods of time. Many people here have been failed by doctors, family, therapists..etc. Where else can people get help, when the help constantly fails you? I've given up, and my decision to ctb was not easy. It was agonizing, but I've come to terms with it. It's almost comforting knowing I have control over my life.
Sorry if I rambled, but Percocet and a White Russian make for a nice warm fuzzy buzzy.

I was dead for billions of years since before I was born, and it did not bother at all. I wasn't even aware of it. Death isn't bad, just neutral.

 

[Empty Smile]

This is another one of those threads that's just like religion. No matter how hard you try, you just can't convince the other person how wrong they are.

 

[Pilum Muralis]

I was dead for billions of years since before I was born, and it did not bother at all. I wasn't even aware of it. Death isn't bad, just neutral.

It's a mixture of fear and excitement for me. I have a fear of the unknown, and also excited to see if there is actually something after death. Probably nothing, but still makes me anxious. Not enough to stop me, however.

 

[MAIO]

It's a mixture of fear and excitement for me. I have a fear of the unknown, and also excited to see if there is actually something after death. Probably nothing, but still makes me anxious. Not enough to stop me, however.

The thing for me is the most plausible scenario is death is closest to an eternal dreamless sleep. If this lack of a state is worse than being alive, everyone is completely screwed anyways. Logically though it seems to just be neutral which is close to how life itself is.