Discussion [Philosophy] The existence of life is absolutely horrific

[DisillusionedDragon]

Life requires suffering

Life is basically about fulfilling endless needs. If you don't/can't fulfill them you will suffer. Sometimes greatly, sometimes barely, but you will suffer, so that you have a motivation to fulfill your needs, so that you can eventually create more life, create more need fulfilling machines mainly motivated by suffering.
Of course there's a built in reward system as well. But it's only a reward system, long periods of happiness won't happen. You will develop new needs, don't worry.

Life requires other life to suffer

On top of that most of the time someones need fulfillment requires the suffering of someone else. It doesn't always have to be about ripping the other sentient being apart alive, especially us humans have found endless ways to inevitably cause someone else suffering for fulfilling some need of ours.

---

This endless cycle of absolutely pointless need creation and fulfillment has been going on for hundreds and hundreds of millions of years. The endless cycle of suffering. All because of some random chemical reactions and mutations.
I cannot even begin to comprehend the amount of suffering that has ever happened on this planet or even that which is currently happening at this exact moment. But I do know that it stands in no proportion to the happiness, and even if it did it wouldn't be any less horrible. "Mother nature" people praise so often is absolutely horrific in my eyes.
I cannot help but know and think about these things and it makes me absolutely miserable. I'm not able to live in some fairytale world like everyone else and living in the real one is unbearable. Once you start seeing it, the mechanisms, all the suffering etc. you will start seeing it everywhere and be reminded of it constantly.

This is all obviously really oversimplified, but I didn't have to energy to write some well written essay, I just needed to get this off my chest.
Thanks

 

[EmbraceOfTheVoid]

There are a bunch of antinatalism threads on here if you take the time to search for them. Here's an essay from one that I have bookmarked:

for countless of hundreds of millions of years (maybe even more than that). With humans or without humans. With capitalism or without capitalism. Why? One of the laws of thermodynamics some people don´t know exist but maybe is one (if not **the**) most powerful in our universe is **entropy**. What is it? Well, it basically consists of the fact that it is easier to break something than fix something. It´s easier to create and spread a plague than cure it. It´s easier to write a corrupt law for your own benefits than to create a good one with no loopholes. It´s easier to take a good life than a evil life. You see this in action in our universe constantly because shit breaks contantly, but nothing **ever** miraculously improves. Have you ever noticed that?



This, collaborating with the existence of natural selection and game theory, has given birth to a psychopathic (evil) and psychotic (delusional, strongly prone to optimism bias, wishful thinking, false beliefs, etc) species. We enslave those weaker than thus, both [animals](https://youtu.be/LQRAfJyEsko?t=3315) and humans, the majority of which are forced to work shitty labor jobs, with a childhood involving neglect, trauma, ostracism, bullying, and a generally poor quality of life. This is the 'pulse' of our species, we abuse our children, teenagers and the weak and traumatize them to have the same evil, systematic nature we have. Note: this is **not** exclusive to humans; you can see this sort of behavior in lions, tigers, and other great predators that exhibit this kind of evil behavior, even if irrationally. And the worse is that I believe if another animal species raised to sentience and became "advanced", they would be the same as us.

Let us say, just imagine if having actual concern for humanity or life is even possible with the idea of extreme success as a CEO or high-ranking corporate figure. It's just complete fantasy. The degree to which this is a fantasy, is like someone saying "An antelope could be just as successful being a carnivore as a Lion can." You simply don't arrive at the positions in those places without being 'carnivorous' towards human beings. Because if you were, you would suffer from the same thing that natural selection punishes a Lion that sucks at killing things would suffer from-- you'd just starve and die, because this is a [**competition**](https://youtu.be/95c5GTp__AU). A kind, benevolent, caring, concerned, charitable CEO would just get eaten alive. The laws of biology(which, **reminder**: Human beings are subject to) and the laws of physics, **prevent** good people from becoming CEO's or high ranking corporate figures. It's simply the way the universe works.

Evil **always** works its way to the top in **any** system given enough time-- there's no other way for it not to, in a competition game which says, "The *sneakiest*, most *dominant*, selfish person climbs, while the most *honest*, most *humble* and *selfless* person gets climbed on."

Entropy constantly empowers that which is empowered by virtue of being the perfect distillation of evil, like the Lion, like the predator, like the apex psychopath who is, has always, and will always sit on the throne of all sentient systems in this block of spacetime moving towards greater entropy. Evil thrives once it achieves power because the powerless must work against entropy, where evil only plows forward exhibiting its nature effortlessly. Good must go *against* nature to be good. Evil does not need to do anything special to go *with* nature.


I know this is gonna be a long read, but it is needed to explain the hellish conditions we are in this universe. The problem is **not** capitalism, the problem is **not** humanity itself, the problem will **never** be what the majority of people tell you the true cause of all problems and all the suffering in this world the is nature and the laws of the universe we exist in. It uproots evil and gives it a way to conquer good and use it for its advantage. **This** is the reality that Disney and most media tries to obfuscate to you with systematically spread happy ending stories, even politics and other distractions are there to obfuscate the hellworld that we live in. People have always been trying to find a problem, when the problem is simple: we are in *Hell.*

Almost no one holds this reality up for examination daily. We are allergic. Most of us have near-zero understanding of the gravity, and those who have glimmers, ignore this fact about the quality of our reality because it's not conducive to living another day. Why must we live another day? Because genes which give rise to culture, all of which is determined by game theory which more or less says, "Psychopathy wins and holds dominion over this game". Natural selection is a game where evil wins, not good. Good is kept around for the purpose of evil wearing it's skin like a mask. Good is not adaptive, in the precise way that the cow in cow hell has no adaptive trait. It's alive. It will bear children. Those children will bear children. But nothing "adaptive" is going on. How? The fact of the matter is, a psychopathic species has kept the herbivore alive for its own gain. This is the precise relationship that evil has to goodness. Goodness is kept alive. Buddhism is kept alive. Any genuine benevolent religious idea, is kept alive. All because evil, which is powerfully [camouflaged](https://i.imgur.com/ri1sTPL.gifv),dominates reality and presses onto it in a way which goodness can never overcome.


There´s *even more* material that I could just keep elaborating on, but the true information is that this life is some kind of evil dystopian hell with no winning moves, because almost all of them empower evil. The worse is that we are delusional evil apes that evolved with brains to blind us to the true, *crushing* gravity of the situation we found ourselves into in this spherical concentration camp. If we were to take our delusional apes glasses off and truly take enough time to analyze our circumstances here on Earth, we would just yell **HOLY FUCKING SHIT** and jump off a window. If everyone was truly aware of *how* bad things are, suicide rates would skyrocket worldwide. Everyone would be killing each other, and everyone would be killing themselves. It would be a suicide epidemic of *biblical* proportions. And everyone would be doing it, not just the poor people, but the CEO´S and other powerful "kings" of Earth, because even **they** would be horrified with the revelation.

TL;DR: Life´s even worse than you think and we are in Hell.

 

[iwanttodie000]

I couldn't agree more - you said it very well. I feel everything you wrote as well. This has to be some kind of cruel joke ... I hate living a life I never asked for. That's why I am going to have to end it.

 

[DisillusionedDragon]

There are a bunch of antinatalism threads on here if you take the time to search for them.

I would love to but the search function disappeared for me a while ago. I'm not sure why, maybe because I never posted and am am therefore still a New Member? Or was it moved somewhere else?

 

[EmbraceOfTheVoid]

I would love to but the search function disappeared for me a while ago. I'm not sure why, maybe because I never posted and am am therefore still a New Member? Or was it moved somewhere else?

There should be a magnifying glass on the top right.

 

[DisillusionedDragon]

There should be a magnifying glass on the top right.

Yeah, that's where it used to be but then it disappeared some time ago

 

[TheSomebody]

Well said

 

[Amumu]

There are a bunch of antinatalism threads on here if you take the time to search for them. Here's an essay from one that I have bookmarked:


View attachment 63960

Thanks for the post. Lots of people idealise nature and life, while they're basically pure monsters.

 

[Callie Arcale]

"I am, therefore the world is meaningless. What meaning is there in the tragic suffering of a man for whom everything is ultimately nothing and whose only law in this world is agony?"

(Cioran)

 

[GenesAndEnvironment]

People really finna have kids in 2021 tho.

 

[DisillusionedDragon]

Well said

Thanks

Thanks for the post. Lots of people idealise nature and life, while they're basically pure monsters.

Yes. And the nature glorification is even becoming more and more popular with the rising environmental movement. Though some even talk about how so many wild animals are suffering - but only because of some human caused environmental issues. Which yes, may increase the suffering of wild animals somewhat, but I don't think that there would be a significant difference if humans didn't exist. They would suffer and die horrible deaths just the same.

"I am, therefore the world is meaningless. What meaning is there in the tragic suffering of a man for whom everything is ultimately nothing and whose only law in this world is agony?"

(Cioran)

I've been wanting to read Cioran for such a long time now, got to find some time for it soon. Thanks for the quote.

People really finna have kids in 2021 tho.

Yes, it makes me so mad and so sad.

 

[Callie Arcale]

I've been wanting to read Cioran for such a long time now, got to find some time for it soon. Thanks for the quote.

Here you can find On the Heights of Despair as pfd

http://www.edarcipelago.com/freebooks/CioranHeightsofDespair.pdf

 

[user667]

yes this is exactly how i feel. and i don't want to "recover" from my mental illnesses because to "recover" is essentially just be brainwashed and lie to yourself and stop seeing the truth. to ignore all of these things and pretend to be happy. complete bullshit. happiness doesn't exist. death is the only release.

 

[Belaya Noch]

This quote by Richard Dawkins is very relatable

The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. During the minute that it takes me to compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive, many others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear, others are slowly being devoured from within by rasping parasites, thousands of all kinds are dying of starvation, thirst, and disease. It must be so. If there ever is a time of plenty, this very fact will automatically lead to an increase in the population until the natural state of starvation and misery is restored. In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.​

 

[OblivionSeeker]

I've become an Existential Nihlist in recent years. I think life is not only meaningless---it's also a curse. Ending my life won't be sad at all.

 

[DisillusionedDragon]

Here you can find On the Heights of Despair as pfd

Thank you

yes this is exactly how i feel. and i don't want to "recover" from my mental illnesses because to "recover" is essentially just be brainwashed and lie to yourself and stop seeing the truth. to ignore all of these things and pretend to be happy. complete bullshit. happiness doesn't exist. death is the only release.

Hm, somewhat, yes. Especially with thinks like depression. To me it often (not always) seems like what people call depression is just (beginning) disillusionment, thinking outside the bounds of what is accepted as normal. And often the 'treatment' is at least to some degree self delusion. Which, to be honest, is quite understandable. Continuing the road of disillusionment is really rather painful.

This quote by Richard Dawkins is very relatable

Oh yes, thanks for sharing. It's always at least somewhat comforting to know that there are other people out there that understand and feel similarly, even if they are few.

 

[Dead beat dad]

Life requires suffering

Life is basically about fulfilling endless needs. If you don't/can't fulfill them you will suffer. Sometimes greatly, sometimes barely, but you will suffer, so that you have a motivation to fulfill your needs, so that you can eventually create more life, create more need fulfilling machines mainly motivated by suffering.
Of course there's a built in reward system as well. But it's only a reward system, long periods of happiness won't happen. You will develop new needs, don't worry.

Life requires other life to suffer

On top of that most of the time someones need fulfillment requires the suffering of someone else. It doesn't always have to be about ripping the other sentient being apart alive, especially us humans have found endless ways to inevitably cause someone else suffering for fulfilling some need of ours.

---

This endless cycle of absolutely pointless need creation and fulfillment has been going on for hundreds and hundreds of millions of years. The endless cycle of suffering. All because of some random chemical reactions and mutations.
I cannot even begin to comprehend the amount of suffering that has ever happened on this planet or even that which is currently happening at this exact moment. But I do know that it stands in no proportion to the happiness, and even if it did it wouldn't be any less horrible. "Mother nature" people praise so often is absolutely horrific in my eyes.
I cannot help but know and think about these things and it makes me absolutely miserable. I'm not able to live in some fairytale world like everyone else and living in the real one is unbearable. Once you start seeing it, the mechanisms, all the suffering etc. you will start seeing it everywhere and be reminded of it constantly.

This is all obviously really oversimplified, but I didn't have to energy to write some well written essay, I just needed to get this off my chest.
Thanks

Is some religions/ philosophies the whole freedom from desire a key value?
I'm not saying this makes some of the shit that goes on okay, just a thought.

Love and respect friend

DBD

 

[user667]

Is some religions/ philosophies the whole freedom from desire a key value?
I'm not saying this makes some of the shit that goes on okay, just a thought.

Love and respect friend

DBD

i think buddhism emphasizes anti-materialism and giving up material desires. but i don't think religion can do much about our internal conflict. desire to be happy, not be scared, reproduce, etc are human nature and it can't fix that. i do like buddhism tho. giving up material desires is a start

 

[DisillusionedDragon]

Yes, some people are intelligent enough to realize how horrible this pointless cycle of need creation and fulfillment is, so there is religion to try to justify it and give some hope of an escape (the afterlife, heaven, nirvana, ....). And they advocate for not having needs/desires, which is literally impossible.

 

[summers]

Just to clarify, this theory applies to living things that don't have chlorophyll in their cells. Life that gets energy from sunlight does not cause any other living things to suffer.

 

[GenesAndEnvironment]

Just to clarify, this theory applies to living things that don't have chlorophyll in their cells. Life that gets energy from sunlight does not cause any other living things to suffer.

Thorns, poisons?

 

[summers]

Thorns, poisons?

Don't try to eat the plant (thereby cause the plant suffering) and you won't get stung or poisoned.

 

[Superdeterminist]

Don't try to eat the plant (thereby cause the plant suffering) and you won't get stung or poisoned.

It doesn't seem like plants suffer though.

 

[summers]

It doesn't seem like plants suffer though.

Maybe the plant doesn't feel physical pain, but if you eat the plant, you kill it. It ceases to exist. The defense mechanisms of plants/chlorophyll based life forms would not cause suffering if they were left alone.

 

[motel rooms]

"I am, therefore the world is meaningless. What meaning is there in the tragic suffering of a man for whom everything is ultimately nothing and whose only law in this world is agony?"

(Cioran)

I love Emil Cioran, but it kinda bugs me that he died at 84, of natural causes. I'm probably just jealous of how high-functioning he was

​

 

[Susan472]

I totally relate to this. It's as if the majority either aren't aware of the suffering or just prefer to ignore it as long as it isn't happening to them. It's either suffer or be the one making others suffer - that seems to be the way the world works hence most people are bullies to some degree or other and always on the lookout for others to subjugate.

If you don't have it in you to want to dominate and bully others then you will suffer.

Life requires suffering

Life is basically about fulfilling endless needs. If you don't/can't fulfill them you will suffer. Sometimes greatly, sometimes barely, but you will suffer, so that you have a motivation to fulfill your needs, so that you can eventually create more life, create more need fulfilling machines mainly motivated by suffering.
Of course there's a built in reward system as well. But it's only a reward system, long periods of happiness won't happen. You will develop new needs, don't worry.

Life requires other life to suffer

On top of that most of the time someones need fulfillment requires the suffering of someone else. It doesn't always have to be about ripping the other sentient being apart alive, especially us humans have found endless ways to inevitably cause someone else suffering for fulfilling some need of ours.

---

This endless cycle of absolutely pointless need creation and fulfillment has been going on for hundreds and hundreds of millions of years. The endless cycle of suffering. All because of some random chemical reactions and mutations.
I cannot even begin to comprehend the amount of suffering that has ever happened on this planet or even that which is currently happening at this exact moment. But I do know that it stands in no proportion to the happiness, and even if it did it wouldn't be any less horrible. "Mother nature" people praise so often is absolutely horrific in my eyes.
I cannot help but know and think about these things and it makes me absolutely miserable. I'm not able to live in some fairytale world like everyone else and living in the real one is unbearable. Once you start seeing it, the mechanisms, all the suffering etc. you will start seeing it everywhere and be reminded of it constantly.

This is all obviously really oversimplified, but I didn't have to energy to write some well written essay, I just needed to get this off my chest.