Discussion Philosophical reason for suicide?

[tomz323]

As the tittle mentioned I was wondering about everyone's thoughts on existence as a whole and life in general. Why are we really here? Does this or your past reflect on reasons why you want to ctb?

 

[Alucard]

Because life is absurd, and society prevents us from giving it meaning...

"He who commits suicide would like life ; only he is not satisfied with the conditions in which it is offered to him."

Arthur Schopenhauer

 

[Dead beat dad]

I believe that we should be kind, to ourselves, to eachother, to the planet and all things on it.
While a lot of people deploy this philosophy some of the time, a lot of them don't, and I hate that.
Life is just a bit unkind and unfair and once you go down that path it just snowballs.
The only thing that beats hate is love and there simply is not enough love in the world.
I don't want to be part of that.
Just my 2c.

Peace brother

DBD

 

[rata1]

Because life is absurd, and society prevents us from giving it meaning...

"He who commits suicide would like life ; only he is not satisfied with the conditions in which it is offered to him."

Arthur Schopenhauer

can you tell me in which book of schopenhauer you found this sentence? veryvery nice!

 

[letmeseethedeath]

Life swings like a pendulum backward and forward between pain and boredom. -Arthur Schopenhauer
Life is pain, only pain. we don't have anymore. People tends to see the world like is not really the one in whom we are.

 

[Weems]

I'm not a pessimist or antinatalist. I think life can be great for the healthy. People who shine, who create, who make friends, whose personalities expand and refine as they get older.

Then there are people like me.

 

[rata1]

a very interesting text regarding suicide and philosophy is: seneca the younger, epistulae morales ad lucilium, letter 70
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Moral_letters_to_Lucilius/Letter_70

 

[Time is irrelevant]

I believe that our reason for being here is to experience a life in the physical realm of humanity. Consciousness is infinite and so complex. We all have somthing to gain/experiance/learn from this form of existance and we may not be able to comprehend what that is in our physical form. Only when our consciousness passes out of this realm will our experiences make sense, however dark or wonderful they may have been.

As far as suicide is concerned I believe that those of us who seek it are more consciously aware that humanity/society/the immediate environment we live in is broken and a deep instinct is telling us to get out.

 

[tomz323]

Because life is absurd, and society prevents us from giving it meaning...

"He who commits suicide would like life ; only he is not satisfied with the conditions in which it is offered to him."

Arthur Schopenhauer

Beautiful

 

[TheGoodGuy]

Reminds me of Albert Camus philosphy on suicide.
"There is only one really serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Deciding whether or not life is worth living"

 

[Empty Smile]

They tell me life is about living while you're alive.

When I tell them I don't like being alive, they look at me like I'm mental.

I just can't win....

 

[NOT]

Revolver.

"One thing I've learned in the last seven years: in every game and con there's always an opponent, and there's always a victim. The trick is to know when you're the latter, so you can become the former."

 

[Chalken]

Life is just pain and suffering for many people. Sure, there is some beauty, some good things, but it doesn't make life worth living or creating. I strive for the blissful state of non-existence where nothing will matter anymore. This society is obsessed with vanity and superficial things. I don't want to take part in life, it's just not for me.

 

[Alan James]

My life experience was extremely negative (like one long day of endless suffering, disappointment, pain and humiliation), so I don't know how objective I am. But I am sure (I understand it experimentally) that life is a curse and this is something that needs to be eliminated anyway, I would like to die not just because my life is bad - I would not want to exist as a human at all in body of meat and bones. Also i hate modern society and this wage slavery. I have reached the understanding that death is a blessing and this is something that needs to be done anyway, I would not want to live even rich, healthy and happy. I don't need anything from anyone except euthanasia and I would give everything that I have for it. We are all slaves and a resource, life is deception, fraud and it begins with the fact that our genes and chance decide everything for us. To be born with bad genes in complete poverty in a place that you hate to the pain and vomit of people whom you cann't tolerate and at the same time not be able to end your life - fuck the world where such things happen.

 

[Divine Trinity]

The global power structure is collapsing once again approaching the possibility of massive wars akin to the European wars in the 20th century, over increasingly scarcer resources and geopolitical influence. Geopolitics has entered into an arms race with several nuclear powers, the global ponzi scheme we call an economy is a walking corpse after 2009, the level of wealth inequality is equatable to the age of pharoahs, the global agricultural system has an estimated 60 harvest left before collapse from industrial monocropping, and we're see global biodiversity loss 10-100x larger than in the past 10 million years, with 1 million species expected to die off within millenial's lifetime largely attributed animal agriculture. While the oceans have been plagued with plastics found in even the most remote regions in the arctics, and the deepest depths of the marianna trench.

Meanwhile, hundreds of millions of people are prospected to die from the chain reactions of climate change and industrial pollution in 20+ years. While uncertain of the exact toll it will take, by the end of this century we're talking at least a few 10 million casualties, to as extreme as a total collapse of the biosphere.

Seeing how the powers that be are choosing to loot as much wealth from the public/nature as they can before jumping ship, I'd rather not live to see how this will develop.

-Not really philisophical ig

 

[couragetodie]

This is all so negative. Woe is me. The world sucks. The world is collapsing. I don't buy into any of this. All of these philosophers were injured in some way and not taught how to cope with their pain. They were taught how to read and write and analyze but they weren't taught how to manage their anxiety, depression, pain. And they lived through wars and poverty and yet more pain. And the vast majority of the people on this forum have experienced great suffering. If not physical or verbal, emotional abuse which can lead one to desire CTB. Emotional abuse is invisible — it's parents who demand things that can't be done. We are all suffering here. That is it. I recall being younger and enjoying depressing music, depressing novels, depressing philosophy. Wearing shirts that say "everything sucks" and all that. But I was in pain. And I didn't know how to get out of it other than the few ways that I was taught — by others who suffered. I hate suffering. I hate sitting here and even writing this. And yet here I am because I have given up. I have given up because the suffering is greater than my ability to manage it. In sum, if we are raised by people who don't know how to manage their suffering properly, and pretty much all of us are and this is a global phenomenon, then we become miserable.

 

[Jean Améry]

Why are we here? There is no reason. Blind chance and evolution. Unless one believes in mythological beings there was no design and no purpose which is manifest if one takes a look at nature even casually.

What is life? Schopenhauer said it best: life is nothing more than an unprofitable episode disturbing the blessed calm of non-existence. If I wasn't such an idiot believing I have moral obligations towards others I would have pulled the plug a long time ago.

The main reason why people live is because they're biologically driven to do so, believe their ego is real and are scared shitless of death.

 

[Weems]

If I wasn't such an idiot believing I have moral obligations towards others I would have pulled the plug a long time ago.

Similar boat here. I just cannot bear the thought of hurting my dad that much. But I just don't see another option.

 

[Jean Améry]

This is all so negative. Woe is me. The world sucks. The world is collapsing. I don't buy into any of this. All of these philosophers were injured in some way and not taught how to cope with their pain. They were taught how to read and write and analyze but they weren't taught how to manage their anxiety, depression, pain. And they lived through wars and poverty and yet more pain. And the vast majority of the people on this forum have experienced great suffering. If not physical or verbal, emotional abuse which can lead one to desire CTB. Emotional abuse is invisible — it's parents who demand things that can't be done. We are all suffering here. That is it. I recall being younger and enjoying depressing music, depressing novels, depressing philosophy. Wearing shirts that say "everything sucks" and all that. But I was in pain. And I didn't know how to get out of it other than the few ways that I was taught — by others who suffered. I hate suffering. I hate sitting here and even writing this. And yet here I am because I have given up. I have given up because the suffering is greater than my ability to manage it. In sum, if we are raised by people who don't know how to manage their suffering properly, and pretty much all of us are and this is a global phenomenon, then we become miserable.

An optimist on a suicide forum. I never thought I'd see the day.

You project your own personal narrative unto others. Psychologizing philosophers: how absurd. Denying climate change and the great suffering it will cause: how absurd. Denying the great suffering that is all around us and is only partially mental: how absurd.

Buddha wasn't suffering untill his terminal illness and he meditated daily which is known to increase happiness and this was his conclusion about life: "Life is suffering" (first Noble Truth).

I don't get why people who are suicidal buy into society's crap ideology of suffering being an aberration and an exception to the rule while it's clear the opposite is true. Anytime we have a desire or a need that is unfulfilled we suffer, when there's something wrong with our bodies we suffer, when things aren't the way we want them to be we suffer, when we lose people we love we suffer... The list goes on.

Sell your 'the world/life is great' fairy-tale to the millions who live in pain and deprivation every day. You yourself suffer yet you deny the omnipresence of suffering... Go figure.

 

[Alucard]

There is also Hegesias of Cyrene, "representing to his friends that death is actually more to be desired than life, and that the gloomy descriptions of human misery which this work contained were so overpowering that they inspired many people to kill themselves, in consequence of which the author received the surname of Death-persuader (Peisithanatos)"

Hegesias of Cyrene - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

...

can you tell me in which book of schopenhauer you found this sentence? veryvery nice!

The world as Will and Representation :)

 

[couragetodie]

@Jean Améry so you believe all who seem content in their lives are deluded? Not that they were taught how to enjoy life properly as children and were protected enough not to be abused? I am an optimist when it comes to all of humanity. I am a pessimist with my life.

Just because Buddha said life is suffering doesn't make it so. Pain in life is inevitable — we cannot avoid pain in 2019. Maybe in the future there will be technology capable of preventing one to feel pain. Suffering is where we take pain and we do not manage it properly. I am not articulating my point very well — I am trying to say that there are so many people here embracing a philosophy to justify ctb. Maybe it's a European thing. Maybe that's why Americans hate to sit around and analyze things. The more we delve the more we suffer. Much better to live one's life just creating, loving, laughing than to sit around and bitch and moan about their suffering. But if you weren't born into a situation where you learned how to manage your pain, this led to suffering and then wanting to ctb.

 

[dyingtodie]

@Time is irrelevant I love your post, especially the line: "a deep instinct is telling us to get out." I really think that sums it up for me. My Mom knows I wanna go but she says it's up to God to make such life/death decisions. But, is this constant instinctual voice beckoning me into the great beyond not the voice of God? Me thinks it damn well is! And I'm a scared stubborn boy not wanting to go home just yet. It feels like admitting such a grand defeat, as I had such high hopes for what Earth could be like, like the book "the more beautiful world our hearts know is possible" extrapolates on.

I feel so late for a very important date. Am I missing my welcome party? Fuck. But your username is so right on too... I can stay confined by my physical body to learn a few more lessons, drink a few more Chocolate Smoothies and smoke some Weed and in the end when I dip out I'll be right on time! And if I really am late, then I do trust in God (the grand organizing designer, or design) to take the form of a snake and bite me, or a truck and strike me dead.

"John Frusciante - Time Is Nothing" He DESTROYS time in that song...as he does in the epic diddy "Falling". Time doesn't stand a chance. He doubles it like a Bee. Shows it to be the illusion that it is. Time dilation is so cool.

 

[WaterUnder]

Because life is absurd, and society prevents us from giving it meaning...

"He who commits suicide would like life ; only he is not satisfied with the conditions in which it is offered to him."

Arthur Schopenhauer

That Schopenhauer quote is certainly true of me

 

[Jean Améry]

@Jean Améry so you believe all who seem content in their lives are deluded? Not that they were taught how to enjoy life properly as children and were protected enough not to be abused? I am an optimist when it comes to all of humanity. I am a pessimist with my life.

Just because Buddha said life is suffering doesn't make it so. Pain in life is inevitable — we cannot avoid pain in 2019. Maybe in the future there will be technology capable of preventing one to feel pain. Suffering is where we take pain and we do not manage it properly. I am not articulating my point very well — I am trying to say that there are so many people here embracing a philosophy to justify ctb. Maybe it's a European thing. Maybe that's why Americans hate to sit around and analyze things. The more we delve the more we suffer. Much better to live one's life just creating, loving, laughing than to sit around and bitch and moan about their suffering. But if you weren't born into a situation where you learned how to manage your pain, this led to suffering and then wanting to ctb.
[/QUOTE

In a way yes. We are equiped with psychological mechanisms to cope with the inevitable suffering of life: it's called the Polyanna Principle. Humans are more apt to remember positive events in the past rather than negative ones, nearly all humans think they are better off than average which is impossible, we lower our expectations of reality to the expectations of those around us...

Humans are notoriously bad at honest, realistic self-assesment.

Biologically we chase dopamine and we are driven to live no matter what. It's no wonder that nature provides us with a rosy outlook on life: clearly this is the product of pure instinct, not reasonable assesment.

Personally I think I'd be better off dead and this is the product of a reasonable thought process on two levels: life in general and my life in particular. What stops me is love for others which is also largely biological.

We truly are nature's fools and half-rational monkeys. I'm of the opinion that if homo sapiens sapiens was truly rational our species would have determined life is not worh the effort and the pain and we would have died out long ago.

You misunderstand my meaning about Buddha: it's not an argument from authority. You claimed philosophers hold pessimistic views because of personal suffering. I provided a counterexample: Buddha. Schopenhauer enjoyed good meals, fine music, good literature, walks, went to the theater, journeyd... Clearly he wasn't unhappy for most of his life.

The truth of Buddha's assesment and of pessimism in general rests on reality itself: Buddha analyzed the nature of life and found it was full of discomfort, pain and want. His assesment was based on observations: birth is suffering, death is suffering, sickness is suffering, frustration is suffering...

All these sources of suffering are inherent to life hence his formulation 'life is suffering'.

Logically this implies the only way to escape suffering is to escape life itself. Of course Buddha believed in the unprovable dogma of reincarnation thus he didn't advocate suicide but a path of personal liberation and discipline. Since I don't believe in reincarnation I don't believe his solution is sound even though I wish I could believe it.

We get used to pain and learn how to minimize it. We also learn to ignore it which is what you seem to advocate. 'Don't think about it and it'll just dissapear'. I find this attitude odd to say the least.

It could be that Europeans are more pessimistic and perhaps more philosophically inclined in general. I don't know enough about American philosophy to determine whether that is true. I do know there are American pessimists: Thomas Ligotti for one or Gary Inmendham.

If people could work, live, laugh, create and enjoy things as you say they probably wouldn't be here, would they? Would you be here if you could do that?

Lastly: truth has nothing to do with practical use or advantage. Equating the two is the folly of American pragmatism.

 

[JadedGray]

I believe life in general causes more pain and suffering overall than what it's worth. You either experience it more often or the pain is felt stronger than the feeling of happiness.

 

[Time is irrelevant]

@Time is irrelevant I love your post, especially the line: "a deep instinct is telling us to get out." I really think that sums it up for me. My Mom knows I wanna go but she says it's up to God to make such life/death decisions. But, is this constant instinctual voice beckoning me into the great beyond not the voice of God? Me thinks it damn well is! And I'm a scared stubborn boy not wanting to go home just yet. It feels like admitting such a grand defeat, as I had such high hopes for what Earth could be like, like the book "the more beautiful world our hearts know is possible" extrapolates on.

I feel so late for a very important date. Am I missing my welcome party? Fuck. But your username is so right on too... I can stay confined by my physical body to learn a few more lessons, drink a few more Chocolate Smoothies and smoke some Weed and in the end when I dip out I'll be right on time! And if I really am late, then I do trust in God (the grand organizing designer, or design) to take the form of a snake and bite me, or a truck and strike me dead.

"John Frusciante - Time Is Nothing" He DESTROYS time in that song...as he does in the epic diddy "Falling". Time doesn't stand a chance. He doubles it like a Bee. Shows it to be the illusion that it is. Time dilation is so cool.

For as long as I can remember I've had that feeling that I shouldn't be here and that I need to get out. It's like a calling inside me and because of that I have always been facinated by death and i have coped with death/loss very well because death is just another gateway that we all must pass through eventually.

It could be god/a creator calling out or it could be our own infinate consciousness trying to tell us that this world/form of existance simply isn't right anymore.

I often sit and imagine how wonderful and amazing this world could be and it saddens me to know that it's not possible. We could all learn/experience so much were the world to undergo drastic changes.

Now chocolate smoothies and a good smoke is my kinda thing too and I also believe that there is definitely more for me to learn in this form however I feel that this world would mentally/spiritually cripple me were I to stay until i die of natural causes.

The universe is such a complex and crazy thing and in the grand scheme of things time is meaningless, it a construct of the physical form we currently reside in.

 

[Painpleasure]

I believe life in general causes more pain and suffering overall than what it's worth. You either experience it more often or the pain is felt stronger than the feeling of happiness.

Someone once said that life has an upper limit for "pleasure" but endless capacity for pain. I think your comment is aligned to this view and I echo it 100%

For as long as I can remember I've had that feeling that I shouldn't be here and that I need to get out. It's like a calling inside me and because of that I have always been facinated by death and i have coped with death/loss very well because death is just another gateway that we all must pass through eventually.

It could be god/a creator calling out or it could be our own infinate consciousness trying to tell us that this world/form of existance simply isn't right anymore.

I often sit and imagine how wonderful and amazing this world could be and it saddens me to know that it's not possible. We could all learn/experience so much were the world to undergo drastic changes.

Now chocolate smoothies and a good smoke is my kinda thing too and I also believe that there is definitely more for me to learn in this form however I feel that this world would mentally/spiritually cripple me were I to stay until i die of natural causes.

The universe is such a complex and crazy thing and in the grand scheme of things time is meaningless, it a construct of the physical form we currently reside in.

I try to "read between the lines" and listen to the "omens" in my life to discern whether there is any clear message that I should depart this life but on the balance I get a mixed message - Some events and patterns seem to suggest that the rest of my life will be lived in misery and I should kill myself now yet on the other hand I have survived some life threatening events which suggests that I actually should still be alive. It's a really frustrating situation to be in...

 

[dyingtodie]

@Time is irrelevant

I feel that this world would mentally/spiritually cripple me were I to stay until i die of natural causes.

For sure, me too. Do you think this will affect your afterlife state?

I feel like the Smiths song..."seems the life I've had could make a good man, turn bad". Or like Donnie Brasco when he 'becomes one of them.'

And I worry about incurring karma due to my reaction to overwhelming and horrific life circumstances. Even though I will surely learn from these experiences, enduring them may not be worth the ultimate spiritual cost.

Like, sometimes I think about doing the favor of taking a few others with me on my final day. Like, people who are obviously suffering miserable irredeemable lives. Maybe I'll get big props in Heaven. Or, maybe I'll get bitch slapped by an Angel telling me that the fat fuck I killed was two days away from Enlightenment and was about to do great things for humanity.

 

[Time is irrelevant]

@dyingtodie

This is a question I have been thinking about for a while and I personally don't believe it would have a detrimental impact on my afterlife state. It may be that I don't learn everything I could have during this stage of existance but I don't believe I'll be tortured in hell or anything like that.

Think of it this way when playing an RPGs video game you are in control of the character/avatar exploring, learning and experiencing a story. If you switch the game off the worst that can happen is you not knowing the end of that story. (A crude example)

I think the idea of ctb with others would be the best way to do it to be honest!