Opinion: People who never tried therapy and want to ctb should be careful about it

[noname223]

I don't know what the percentage is. But there is a number of people who want to ctb before they ever tried therapy. I don't want to force those people. It always depends on the problems. Some have debts there might is other help needed. If people don't have health care or live in poor country without any help I don't have a good advice. Maybe seeking help by talking to humans rights organizations. I know these words are very easy to say. That is why I try to be careful to say them.

But I think if you are young and struggle with mental problems I think you should first try therapy (if it is available) before ctb. I am young myself. Therapy and medication has helped. Though I still want to die. The situation has partly improved though the situation will likely become worse in the future. I just want that people who are in a temporary crisis should not ctb if their problems are solvable. And maybe they could live happy lives after therapy/medication.
I am careful with those words. I don't like to intervene too much in personal decision if I barely know nothing about the story of a person. And it sometimes seems to sound like platitudes. Though the truth is for some it gets better. I have seen people here in this forum who recovered. (I think I personally never will. But I tried several therapies and countless medication. I think still suicide is unavoidable.)

One other reason is why I am careful with those words. Medication can have side effects. For the majority the benefits are higher than the side effects they cause. However I read stories of people who say their life has been destroyed by side effects of medication. I think they are a minority. But I am not your psychiatrist/therapist. It is always good to talk first to some professional instead of getting an advice by a stranger online.
I think when people are on the edge of suicide they don't have much to lose anymore. So they could first try to talk to a therapist.

This post is not suppossed to be anti-choice. I tried therapy. My suicidality is treatment resistant. But some people can be helped. Before you have not tried it you never know if it would help or not.

 

[miserableforever]

No one listens to a 'stranger' and then commits suicide..
At least not that I know of.

Therapy is not doable without insurance where I live.
It's not that simple.

 

[Julgran]

Not all suicidal tendencies stem from abstract, "mild" mental states - such as depression, loneliness or anxiety - so a therapist might be completely out of the question for some. Keep that in mind. However, it's good if one has the energy to seek out help, but oftentimes, people who do show up here in this community have already gone through the steps that they deem are necessary, and just wish to find peace in their situation.

Also, a therapist can't solve any problems specifically - they can only make one feel better about them.

 

[4eyebiped]

I feel regardless of your age, and if you are able, I would recommend giving therapy a try. I also recommend trying different therapists and/or doctors if possible. Just like every other profession, skill levels and beliefs can vary greatly. Not all therapist and doctors are created equal. You also have websites like this, and other forums and support groups, some being specialized to specific conditions, if your options are limited. Regardless, there is some form of support that is obtainable, so try and take advantage of as many as you can. You never know which may help you.

It is always great to help those that can be helped. For those that can't be, then welcome back to SS.

 

[InezSerrano]

I have seen 11 therapists, only two were good. Sure, give it a shot, but it usually takes time and energy to find someone good, and this can discourage people. It can also be quite expensive.

 

[noname223]

No one listens to a 'stranger' and then commits suicide..
At least not that I know of.

Therapy is not doable without insurance where I live.
It's not that simple.

As I mentioned not everywhere it is an option. I know that. I don't say it can fix everyone's problems. But there are some who never tried it. It is just fact some can recover. For some the problems are temporary. I met several people here.

Not all suicidal tendencies stem from abstract, "mild" mental states - such as depression, loneliness or anxiety - so a therapist might be completely out of the question for some. Keep that in mind. However, it's good if one has the energy to seek out help, but oftentimes, people who do show up here in this community have already gone through the steps that they deem are necessary, and just wish to find peace in their situation.

Also, a therapist can't solve any problems specifically - they can only make one feel better about them,

Yes. That is why I said in the title therapy. This includes also therapy for somatic pain etc. There are several kinds of consultations.
I am not sure about the percentage how many here never tired therapy before ctb. I also think it is only a minority. The most cases who ctb have several underlying conditions, debts and treatment resistant. So I think the depiction of this forum is wrong in the media.

I am not sure about the statistics in this forum. This is why I said I don't know the percenatge. Some can recover and I am glad that I see some of them. I am happy for them.

I think if we don't say for some it gets better this website gets the lable pro-death. For some it does not get better, for some it gets better. The best way to collect evidence for answering the question is to go to a therapist ifyou have mental problems. If you have somatic problem a doctor/specialist. If you have no insurance or live in a country without health care system I have no real answer for it. I don't want to claim I had one.

 

[bed]

Yes, I've always agreed people generally should exhaust as many options as they can before they come to this conclusion. To me, this is the most logical way to go about it.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I've had many therapists. My first one was court appointed and even though she was nice, it got to a point where all we did was play chess to make the sessions go by because back then I wasn't suffering as much.

Then when I actually was suffering, I had to resort to the free counselors from my universities to get any help. Even though they were licensed therapists, I got the feeling that they were always overworked and overbooked. I often had to wait months between seeing them and usually by the time I did see them I wasn't even able to remember why I needed them. With the last therapist I saw, she was also nice but so unwilling to see that I was as evil as I say I am. Also her advice for my loneliness was to just try dating apps which has turned out to be terrible advice because it just makes me feel even worse about myself.

The other reason therapy doesn't work on me is that even when they do give me genuinely helpful advice or help me feel good during the session, it always wears off as soon as it's over. One hour just isn't enough sometimes. Also no amount of therapy can solve how lazy I am meaning if they give me any sort of homework to do then you can bet I'm either going to forget or just not do it at all.

 

[everydayiloveyou]

Completely agree. it's sometimes very worrying how resistant people can be against treatment on here, even in the Recovery subforum.

I recently increased my dose for meds and I feel so much better. few to no suicidal thoughts. It's like I'm stable for the first time in a while. I actually only logged on because I was worried about someone, and wanted to see if they posted recently. In therapy, I spoke to my psych about this site and I didnt get in trouble or anything. We discussed future plans for my meds (for if I feel very suicidal again), and also discussed why I come on here when I'm sad.

I still believe in pro-choice and my psych respects that. However, I really am skeptical of people who insist that their suicidality has nothing to do with mental illness. There are instances where you're truly in a situation that cannot be helped, but it's important to know that depression and other mental illnesses can completely cloud your perception of these kinds of things, even if you don't feel like it is. It's one of those things that doesn't feel obvious or irrational until you're sitting in the doc's office and saying that aloud, and watching how your psych's face contorts into an expression of worry, while you're there like "... well that sounds kind of ridiculous now that I say it like this"

I wish quality professional treatment was available to everyone for free or low-cost. it's seriously life-changing

 

[LittleJem]

I would say try everything. And I have had maybe 15 therapists, some for a few years and some short term. Was it helpful? None of them referred me to a psychiatrist which was what I needed. I have also studied therapy. I could not tell you what any of those therapists was doing. They all made money from me!!!

Therapy does help some people and is more helpful in combination with medication. I don't want to put anyone off.

When people these days ask if I've tried therapy...it's laughable. I'm in my 40s, middle class, how would I not have tried it!!

 

[l8tony]

For me I had bad experience with therapy since I was forced to go. I had to lie about everything just they can leave me alone. Maybe I was locked in a hospital but it felt like a prison. I'm stubborn with medication too and don't think you can fix it by popping pills because sooner or later you'll develop a tolerance to it. To each their own. Talking to people on here that actually understands you through feelings is better than talking to a robot with a personality of a brick wall that just spits science at you. I would like to try electroconvulsive therapy though.

 

[callme]

I wish quality professional treatment was available to everyone for free or low-cost. it's seriously life-changing

Not everybody is swiss swedish or singaporean unfortunately. Free of cost for all citizens and being high quality is fiction alone.

 

[nerve]

I obviously can't tell anyone what to do and I know better than to bring this up in peoples' individual threads when I see it, but it can look a little silly when someone is like "I'm really at the end of the rope... I don't know what to do anymore... I feel cornered into this situation... And also I'm not going to try medication or therapy so don't bother asking." And some of these reasons (financial access to services, quality of treatment, time commitment, etc.) are legitimately good ones, but a lot of the time it seems like these people just don't want to or they're scared or they don't "believe" in it or somehow magically know ahead of time that it can't help them.

In general, CBT is a scam, but the cognitive distortions they address are 100% real. It's simultaneously funny and aggravating seeing so many threads pop up with words like "never" and "always" and "everybody" and "nobody" in the titles. Like I've gotten basically nothing out of 10+ years of therapy, but at least I know saying stuff like "nobody loves me" and "nothing's ever going to get better" and "everybody is awful" kind of just makes the speaker sound like a petulant child.

I'm not saying that I never fall into these traps or that being aware of them somehow makes life easier or better, it's just an objectively more realistic way of looking at the world that I guess some people resist because maybe it would topple their whole worldview or maybe they'd just rather think they're right or something. Idk.

 

[9BBN]

I like therapy, I just wish I didn't have to hide my suicidal ideation. It's counter-productive in that way.

 

[Pure]

For me I had bad experience with therapy since I was forced to go. I had to lie about everything just they can leave me alone. Maybe I was locked in a hospital but it felt like a prison. I'm stubborn with medication too and don't think you can fix it by popping pills because sooner or later you'll develop a tolerance to it. To each their own. Talking to people on here that actually understands you through feelings is better than talking to a robot with a personality of a brick wall that just spits science at you. I would like to try electroconvulsive therapy though.

ECT is way too risky. I've met people who have had it done and had permanent memory loss.

If you have the money, I've heard wonders with ketamine therapy. I would have tried it but it was too expensive. Right now I've greatly managed my depression and suicidality with other psychedelics.

 

[Ryxn99]

Therapy isn't a viable option, the waiting list is huge and private is incredibly expensive

 

[l8tony]

ECT is way too risky. I've met people who have had it done and had permanent memory loss.

If you have the money, I've heard wonders with ketamine therapy. I would have tried it but it was too expensive. Right now I've greatly managed my depression and suicidality with other psychedelics.

Oh that's what I want. I already paid the price of trying to forget all of my bad experiences. I seem to have blocked everything and recall most things. It could be from the trauma or just the attempts that caused some damage to my brain cells. I just feel numb and would not mind having bolts sent through my brain. I don't want things to get better anymore, I much rather want things to end.

Therapy isn't a viable option, the waiting list is huge and private is incredibly expensive

Yep, the best free therapy you can get right is someone you trust and can be honest with. Which it seems everyone on here doesn't have that in their life it seems.

 

[maakies]

I agree with you. I disdain the stuff, but I swear it can help someone. Just not me.

 

[Hirokami]

It's not just the affordability, either. Even if therapy were free/low-cost, there would still be a crucial misconception. People can dissuaded from going to therapy as they fear being sectioned for expressing such thoughts. Usually, though, therapists would do a risk assessment (at least in the US) before even considering that route. Simply talking about suicidal thoughts doesn't put someone in the high risk category.

 

[subj]

For me I had bad experience with therapy since I was forced to go. I had to lie about everything just they can leave me alone. Maybe I was locked in a hospital but it felt like a prison. I'm stubborn with medication too and don't think you can fix it by popping pills because sooner or later you'll develop a tolerance to it. To each their own. Talking to people on here that actually understands you through feelings is better than talking to a robot with a personality of a brick wall that just spits science at you. I would like to try electroconvulsive therapy though.

I dont want to minimize getting help here if you find it.Howeer it is sad you had such bad experiencee with therapy. There are loser therapists ot there and unfortunately ypou may have top try others. Regarding meds. Not all meds will work for everyone. However many will and they will not lose their efficiancy. As one who is often suicidal I can tell you that hanging on can give a lot of peace that can counterbalance the felings and allow or decent life with the thoughts of dying continuing but manageably kept down.

 

[noname223]

It's not just the affordability, either. Even if therapy were free/low-cost, there would still be a crucial misconception. People can dissuaded from going to therapy as they fear being sectioned for expressing such thoughts. Usually, though, therapists would do a risk assessment (at least in the US) before even considering that route. Simply talking about suicidal thoughts doesn't put someone in the high risk category.

I agree to that. I already have talked about my suicidal thoughts with them. They only lock you up when you are acute suicidal. Though I have read that some people made bad experiences when they talked about it.

 

[Squidbits]

I have to agree. I've been in therapy for many years. it's helped somewhat, though I'm still bent on ctb. if it's a resource that's available to someone, they should use it. exhaust that option.

the problem is that many people cant afford it, or can attend regularly for as long as they need to in order to see the benefits. in that instance, I wouldnt pressure someone into therapy if it's truly not an attainable option for them.

 

[KuriGohan&Kamehameha]

It varies highly on the individual and their idiosyncrasies. My partner was helped by talk therapy many years ago, when he had a depressive episode lasting a couple of months. I've been harmed immensely by it, because the issues we suffer from are completely dissimilar. In my boyfriend's case, therapy was helpful to him because they provided a motivation to stop drinking and reconnect with family who could help him.

In my case, over a dozen professionals have simply shrugged their shoulders, said they couldn't help, or tried to train me to not "act autistic" so that I would be more respected in society. Once again, very dependent on the individual's problems. The vast majority of therapists are not equipped to deal with autism, complex trauma, people with physical illnesses/pain who have no support network, impoverished workers, etc.

If someone has issues that may benefit from therapy, of course they should try it, if they are able. There's also a difference between psychiatrists who prescribe pills and therapists, but one will typically urge you to see the other in tandem, even though those are very different beasts entirely.

 

[Suicidebydeath]

When I go to see one it feels like I'm wasting their time or they think I'm wasting their time and they just want to see someone who needs more help than me. Thats how it feels and it just makes everything far, far worse for me. Even though they don't even let me talk and in some cases can be really unlawfully abusive. Not to put anyone else off it, I think it just happens to me. I have to risk it again but will take as many precautions as possible to protect myself next time from the kind of, abusive stuff. Including being a bit more confident and less vulnerable to that. I think I just had two horrible human beings talk to me and prejudge me on sight.
The overworked/overbooked thing. - too many people are suffering in this world we need to fix it.

I just remembered something similar, and have to tell someone about it.

 

[noname223]

T

When I go to see one it feels like I'm wasting their time or they think I'm wasting their time and they just want to see someone who needs more help than me. Thats how it feels and it just makes everything far, far worse for me. Even though they don't even let me talk and in some cases can be really unlawfully abusive. Not to put anyone else off it, I think it just happens to me. I have to risk it again but will take as many precautions as possible to protect myself next time from the kind of, abusive stuff. Including being a bit more confident and less vulnerable to that. I think I just had two horrible human beings talk to me and prejudge me on sight.
The overworked/overbooked thing. - too many people are suffering in this world we need to fix it.

I just remembered something similar, and have to tell someone about it.

Two therapists have given up on me after I was fired. Both assume I kill myself due to poverty. One of them still cares about me. Though I think the other one did not really give a fuck about me.
In our last session she told me like "just let it happen" and "you know you cannot do anything against it". Moreover she was really incompetent. And then she lied to my mom she would not have said that.

 

[DocNo]

my experience with therapy is that it helped me to some extend but also set something in motion that after one year of therapy i gave up on myself completely for the first time in my life which did lead to be seriously actively suicidal before i decided to go on with life.

i guess that's more the exception to happen. to some point it nevertheless did help me to hit rock bottom to get out of this state a new perspective on life.

the second time i got actively suicidal i finally joined here about one year ago and the experience here and the people i met here did help me the most so far.

 

[Crazy4u]

I am in my thirties and I have never been to a therapist. I won't consider even if it is free. I like to hide my feelings, opinions, thoughts, and weaknesses from everyone even myself.

 

[demuic]

I obviously can't tell anyone what to do and I know better than to bring this up in peoples' individual threads when I see it, but it can look a little silly when someone is like "I'm really at the end of the rope... I don't know what to do anymore... I feel cornered into this situation... And also I'm not going to try medication or therapy so don't bother asking." And some of these reasons (financial access to services, quality of treatment, time commitment, etc.) are legitimately good ones, but a lot of the time it seems like these people just don't want to or they're scared or they don't "believe" in it or somehow magically know ahead of time that it can't help them.

I've legitimately never seen a thread like this. Most of the threads by people here, people mention they've had some therapy or medication in the past, or whatever they're going through is irrelevant to the bandaid of therapy or meds.

In general, CBT is a scam, but the cognitive distortions they address are 100% real. It's simultaneously funny and aggravating seeing so many threads pop up with words like "never" and "always" and "everybody" and "nobody" in the titles. Like I've gotten basically nothing out of 10+ years of therapy, but at least I know saying stuff like "nobody loves me" and "nothing's ever going to get better" and "everybody is awful" kind of just makes the speaker sound like a petulant child.

Hyberboles exist, and are statements about things generally. And sometimes these statements are literally true. Like "nobody loves me" -- there are many out there without anyone in their life who actually gives a shit about them. Nothing ridiculous about that statement. People in pain are generally considered childish by the most.

 

[Mixo]

Thank you so much for posting your opinion. It takes courage, especially on a site that is kind of focused on self-deliverance, but you are in the recovery subforum so it's completely appropriate and relevant, I think. I agree that suicide must be treated as the absolute last option after exhausting every other option in front of you. The only sticky point is that if you're very young (think teens) - and really for anyone of any age - it can be hard to know or discern whether you've tried "enough" things and that requires some judgement. I won't draw a particular line because it's not my place, but in any case, resisting the urge to have ctb as your main game plan is probably prudent.

 

[GentleJerk]

There are so many good responses here so I don't know if there's much point in mine...

First I'll say that I can understand where the OP is coming from. Seeing a therapist is an option for those who are looking for options.

As someone who once had training in counseling and CBT, I would just like to remind everybody that therapists are just people. Ordinary people who have simply completed a course at an institution. (I should add here that I have never worked as a therapist or counselor, and I do not try to counsel or give therapy to people on this site! I believe in a persons right to end their own life)

Some have a natural talent and some have gained valuable experience during their time working as a counselor. Some people in my course were absolutely clueless, and would have gone on to make terrible counselors but still received their diploma. The field of therapy itself has a lot of limitations and the current models are quite old, they revolve mainly around talking about your issues and finding your own solutions..

There is also evidence that simply speaking to someone who is understanding and attentive can have as much effect effect as all the most advanced methods of psychotherapy.

Also psychotherapy and psychiatry are somewhat of a 'mystical' almost quacky area of medicine, full of unprovable pseudo-science. I don't want to discourage people from seeing a therapist, I just want people to understand that there is no guarantee therapy will help, therapy doesn't work for a lot of people, and those people who decide it's not for them, or not to see one at all are fully within their rights and should be met with understanding.