On Love

[Pluto]

The word love is inherently problematic in English because its usage ranges from the profane to the profound, from feelings towards a favourite ice cream to expressions of the deepest bonds between loved ones. Nonetheless, hopefully the word can be used for the sake of discussion despite its vagueness.

Numerous people here have expressed a frustrated inability to give and/or receive love as a reason for their grief. Additionally, many of us were not loved in childhood so don't even know what it's supposed to feel like.

For me, the best memory of love was the family cat who was my only friend at one point in my 20s. She used to cry to come inside, and would then just sit on the table next to me, or curl up and sleep on the chair next to me. We would stare into each other's eyes and she seemed unconcerned by my dreadful hygiene of the time. She had the softest fur!

While the love of animals is pure, it seems that the intellectual concept of human love is easily diluted into oblivion when we unravel the impurities of selfish motivation. Rallying in support of other groups of people counts as virtue signaling. Romantic love is reducible to obtaining sex. Friendship boils down to trading in trustful companionship. Parental love is an expression of robotic biological processes. Even pets are driven by self-interest. Therefore the conclusion of the intellectual mind is that love is merely an illusion and must be viewed with deep cynicism to avoid trouble.

Having worked with young children, I recognised that their love is initially devoid of this cynicism, open and sweet and warm. But then, slowly I see the poison of the human culture permeate over time. The competitiveness, the dominance, the hierarchies, the insecurity, the preying on the vulnerable... until innocence is lost.

Fast forward two or more decades and here we are with our battle-hardened world views. So many people are literally dying to connect with others only to find attempts distorted by the culture's pervasive dysfunction that our minds have internalised. It seems that something has gone very wrong somewhere.

I don't have any answers and this can all be considered rambling that may or may not stimulate some discussion on the topic.

 

[Sherri]

You are so right are all separated from each other in real life, loneliness rules more and more each year. That feeling of connecting with someone is disappearing, you hardly even see or hear a song about love these days. Animal love is the true kind, I also have a cat, and those loving eyes, only my bf has it to me. I saw a movie once that this guy was dating an app. It's quite interesting and gives you a glimpse on how the future will be. I'll tray to remember the name and send it to you. And now with these virus people run from, each other, refuse to share a lift. It's getting out of hands. What happened to good old conversations, to love songs, to love itself. Besides all this we also have a planet that is running out of resources and slowly dying. I'm happy I won't be around here when all hell will break loose.

 

[Sanva]

i find myself being very cynical most of the time & i agree with most of what you said but I do also believe we can't rationalize everything & there is such a thing as "true love". it's not the way it's portrayed in movies and I think the problem is that that's where most people get their very idealistic expectations from. healthy romantic love boils down to an equal partnership where both parties have to be willing to make sacrifices & communicate. it comes with pain.

the problem with friendships is that they're never as valued as romantic partnerships, and as people get older, they get too preoccupied with their own lives to really make time for anyone that isn't a romantic partner.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I don't deserve love of the romantic kind yet I still crave it nonetheless. I don't really have the patience or energy to become someone who would deserve it so I would just rather be allowed to die first before my lack of this love fully consumes me and causes it to become someone else's problem. If it already has, all the more reason I need to be killed.

I have plenty of friends and family who claim to love me but I just don't care about any of it. I'm perfectly willing to throw it all in their face because of what I can't have. Why? I really don't know but the more I think about it the more I realize I don't actually care all that much. Maybe it's a biological thing, like my hormones and DNA are screaming at me that none of what I have matters if I can't commit the disgusting act of replicating this virulent, cancerous, deoxyribonucleic acid and condemning souls to suffer. If that's the case it's even more proof I don't deserve any kind of love and I apologize that I've taken up some of the precious, limited platonic love that exists in the world.

 

[Mixo]

they get too preoccupied with their own lives to really make time for anyone that isn't a romantic partner.

Yes, or their children. Being a relatively older person on this forum, I'm of the age where people are more focused on their kids and immediate family. Probably even more so than their extended family. With all that keeping people busy, there would be no chance for time with a friend unless they're a parent and there's some kind of practical exchange (i.e. playdates or w/e).

 

[Sanva]

Yes, or their children. Being a relatively older person on this forum, I'm of the age where people are more focused on their kids and immediate family. Probably even more so than their extended family. With all that keeping people busy, there would be no chance for time with a friend unless they're a parent and there's some kind of practical exchange (i.e. playdates or w/e).

true, although I honestly don't understand why people have kids. I would hate to have to dedicate my entire life to a kid, plan everything around them, spend all my money on them etc. people say it's super fulfilling but i don't see how

 

[D&D]

To truly love another human being is to love them for who they really are.
It means get to know them first.
That requires time and patience.
Despite uncertain outcome.
Even if 'it does not work out' (as the saying goes) - the pleasure of getting to know another human being, sharing the common human condition is reward in itself.
In the world of dating apps and global efforts to reduce human interactions to screens, it all sounds cheesy and old fashioned doesn't it? A fairytale. A joke. Or so we have been condition to believe. Because consumer units programmed to work-produce-consume-repeat, whose every move is monitored, measured and tracked, do not need, and it is indeed desirable not to indulge in such a complex and by its definition free endeavor as true love (in all its many forms). Love that empowers and heals. Absolutely not. A moniker, an apparition adorned with endless superficial fluff, including overuse of the very word love would do just nicely. After all the upcoming consumer units would not know any different.
As others have said - I too am beyond glad not to have to witness it.

 

[Pluto]

Thank you all for the great replies. :)

You are so right are all separated from each other in real life, loneliness rules more and more each year.

Yes, there's little doubt that technology has thrown a spanner in the works, causing a runaway effect of quantity over quality that leaves us all alone. It must be so hard for young people who don't remember simpler times when people took for granted a community around them, neighbours who were like family, etc.

I do also believe we can't rationalize everything & there is such a thing as "true love".

I believe that, too, even if I don't know what it might feel like. Sometimes there are connections between people that are very magical, and if combined with being grounded and balanced, might count as true love. I listed the cynical interpretations of love because I often see this perspective presented here and it worries me that it can be a self-fulfilling prophecy. For example, I've met conventionally attractive people who assume that anyone who wants to connect with them is only doing so because of their appearance. It is a world-view that makes deep love an impossibility, hence why I encourage such people to inspect it and its origins.

I don't deserve love of the romantic kind yet I still crave it nonetheless.

I feel your pain. The nature of high quality/unconditional love is that it isn't about being deserved or earned, but in the ultimate sense such a thing isn't practically possible between humans. There is always some compromise to account for individual needs, wants and boundaries.

When relatively distant friends and family uses the 'L' word, I would fall back to my first point that the word can mean a lot of different things. If someone who doesn't truly know us uses the L word, it could be worthless. And yet, the love of animals doesn't involve intellectual knowledge, so I don't know.

With all that keeping people busy, there would be no chance for time with a friend unless they're a parent and there's some kind of practical exchange (i.e. playdates or w/e).

I've been through this in the past few years, with friendships that were once upon a time like pseudo-family now rotting to nothing because people found partners. Even catching up once a year seemed too much to ask. But one has to accept the change - it's the loving thing to do.

true, although I honestly don't understand why people have kids.

I used to say the same thing until a friend had a child and I first experienced the way they light up with joy upon seeing you, and wanting to be with you in such an innocent and unconditional way. It really melts the ice of the heart and opens up a whole new way of viewing life. I don't have children but I imagine that if done right, it would allow the experience of very deep bonds and thus, a very high quality love. I've yearned for it at a very visceral level because life feels utterly worthless without love.

The story doesn't end there, however. The level of sacrifice required is indescribably monumental, and people who admit that having children was a bad idea tend to be censored so that a romanticised interpretation of parenthood can be propagated. We have also seen how wrong things can go when relationships or parenting fails, and that is without even talking about the gloomy ecological and social issues that are looming for humanity. It is an ethical minefield and my rational mind says I am better off dealing with my desire for love via CTB.

In the world of dating apps and global efforts to reduce human interactions to screens, it all sounds cheesy and old fashioned doesn't it?

All very true; you've clearly put a depth of thought into this. I hope that this crazy era of superficiality and dehumanisation will merely be a passing trend within the wider story of life. I bet that in 1943, people felt that endless war was the new normal and that peacetime was a distant memory of better days. But the nightmare did pass, at least until the next one!

 

[Sherri]

Thank you all for the great replies. :)

Yes, there's little doubt that technology has thrown a spanner in the works, causing a runaway effect of quantity over quality that leaves us all alone. It must be so hard for young people who don't remember simpler times when people took for granted a community around them, neighbours who were like family, etc.


I believe that, too, even if I don't know what it might feel like. Sometimes there are connections between people that are very magical, and if combined with being grounded and balanced, might count as true love. I listed the cynical interpretations of love because I often see this perspective presented here and it worries me that it can be a self-fulfilling prophecy. For example, I've met conventionally attractive people who assume that anyone who wants to connect with them is only doing so because of their appearance. It is a world-view that makes deep love an impossibility, hence why I encourage such people to inspect it and its origins.


I feel your pain. The nature of high quality/unconditional love is that it isn't about being deserved or earned, but in the ultimate sense such a thing isn't practically possible between humans. There is always some compromise to account for individual needs, wants and boundaries.

When relatively distant friends and family uses the 'L' word, I would fall back to my first point that the word can mean a lot of different things. If someone who doesn't truly know us uses the L word, it could be worthless. And yet, the love of animals doesn't involve intellectual knowledge, so I don't know.


I've been through this in the past few years, with friendships that were once upon a time like pseudo-family now rotting to nothing because people found partners. Even catching up once a year seemed too much to ask. But one has to accept the change - it's the loving thing to do.


I used to say the same thing until a friend had a child and I first experienced the way they light up with joy upon seeing you, and wanting to be with you in such an innocent and unconditional way. It really melts the ice of the heart and opens up a whole new way of viewing life. I don't have children but I imagine that if done right, it would allow the experience of very deep bonds and thus, a very high quality love. I've yearned for it at a very visceral level because life feels utterly worthless without love.

The story doesn't end there, however. The level of sacrifice required is indescribably monumental, and people who admit that having children was a bad idea tend to be censored so that a romanticised interpretation of parenthood can be propagated. We have also seen how wrong things can go when relationships or parenting fails, and that is without even talking about the gloomy ecological and social issues that are looming for humanity. It is an ethical minefield and my rational mind says I am better off dealing with my desire for love via CTB.


All very true; you've clearly put a depth of thought into this. I hope that this crazy era of superficiality and dehumanisation will merely be a passing trend within the wider story of life. I bet that in 1943, people felt that endless war was the new normal and that peacetime was a distant memory of better days. But the nightmare did pass, at least until the next one!

People are scared in the streets because of the virus. But the airplanes are full, trains, malls. And in the street people cross to the other side like you are a zombie. Will we ever be normal again???? Can't take these masks anymore.

 

[Pluto]

People are scared in the streets because of the virus. But the airplanes are full, trains, malls. And in the street people cross to the other side like you are a zombie. Will we ever be normal again???? Can't take these masks anymore.

The virus has definitely contributed to the situation. Already there was talk of traditional gestures like the handshake being considered inappropriate now, since some people find all physical contact offensive. Now there's the additional fear of virus transmission distancing us all further (except in the situations you list, where people throw caution to the wind). Yet another reason for people to feel fear of one another. Hard to say what the future holds, that's for sure.

 

[Julgran]

Perhaps our general lifestyles today are too comfortable for us to find love in each other. In the oldendays, we would need to work all day and hunt in order to survive, so every day was a blessing, and the people who happened to survive back then eventually moved close to and grew fond of each other, and developed loving feelings, which has resulted in every subsequent generation. Today, we generally don't have to survive against the elements of nature any longer, and can sit alone in our apartments, and rot away, which we ultimately do - it's similar to the mouse utopia experiment.

In the end, I think that we broke the game of life by overcoming nature, which we may not have been supposed to be able to do, and now we can't find each other on the game board.