Venting Ok to feel suicidal but not ok to CTB

[Ta555]

I've been thinking about this and how so few people understand you when you don't want to live anymore. Most therapists and mental health people just push bullshit at you. However there are some mental health professionals and services that aren't all sunshine and rainbows and will truly listen and talk to you when you're suicidal and won't judge or call the cops on you BUT even then in the end they're never ok with the actual CTB. In the end they always say things will get better/can change and suicide is not the answer. I'm so fucking sick of this.
I wish I just had one person, one, who would understand me and accept that CTB is a legitimate solution to some problems.

I remember reading Albert Ellis, who was a big name in psychotherapy back in the 60s-80s. He came up with a therapy similar to cognitive behavioural therapy but anyway, I remember him writing about a client he had who was getting a bit aggressive and out of control in the session and basically got up and threatened to throw himself out the window right there and then and Albert Ellis just said to him 'Well, that's your decision, I'm not going to stop you,' and the guy was so surprised he calmed down and they continued the session and I thought whoa...hats off to that guy. He wasn't using reverse psychology or mind tricks or whatever, that was just his belief, that people have a right to make whatever choice they want about themselves and their lives.

I just wish more people were ok with death. It's become such a taboo and offlimits subject in society. It's so sanitised and hush hushed and out of the way. It's frustrating.

 

[kiuya]

However there are some mental health professionals and services that aren't all sunshine and rainbows and will truly listen and talk to you when you're suicidal and won't judge or call the cops on you BUT even then in the end they're never ok with the actual CTB. In the end they always say things will get better/can change and suicide is not the answer. I'm so fucking sick of this.

Well yeah, it's their job to try to keep you alive. It's human nature to be afraid of dying, and I think we should try to remember that non-suicidal people think differently from us. They don't want to die.

 

[Ta555]

Well yeah, it's their job to try to keep you alive. It's human nature to be afraid of dying, and I think we should try to remember that non-suicidal people think differently from us. They don't want to die.

They also don't want to understand and treat suicidal people like they are crazy or irrational when suicide sometimes is the most rational solution to end one's suffering. It's insulting and degrading to be thought of as mad or irrational or hysterical because you want to end your pain.

 

[D&D]

Understanding desire to cease existence requires deep introspect, courage and compassion most contemporaries lack as those qualities have been systematically eroded by the culture of rampant consumerism. Death has been and continues to be stigmatized for the same reason - consumerism needs living, breathing consumer units happily willing to purchase each and every youth enhancing and life prolonging product/strategy/idea available. Old age, death and especially autonomy of self-deliverance do not fit into this picture.

 

[Ta555]

Understanding desire to cease existence requires deep introspect, courage and compassion most contemporaries lack as those qualities have been systematically eroded by the culture of rampant consumerism. Death has been and continues to be stigmatized for the same reason - consumerism needs living, breathing consumer units happily willing to purchase each and every youth enhancing and life prolonging product/strategy/idea available. Old age, death and especially autonomy of self-deliverance do not fit into this picture.

Very philosophical and well said!!

 

[dustbiter]

They also don't want to understand and treat suicidal people like they are crazy or irrational when suicide sometimes is the most rational solution to end one's suffering. It's insulting and degrading to be thought of as mad or irrational or hysterical because you want to end your pain.

i think its genuinely a rly hard thing for ppl who arent and have never been suicidal to understand tbh ;w; bc honestly most ppl DO consider life a gift and are afraid of death and dying and have never/will never think of suicide as viable bc humans (like most creatures) are hard wired into wanting to live rather than wanting 2 die.

and even if u try 2 explain it to ppl who think like that, they cant rly comprehend it a lot of the time bc in their mind they always think "well, *I* wouldnt feel that way in that situation" or "well *I* would do this or that rather than commit suicide" even when they actually have no idea what the reality of living like tht is :/

 

[FuneralCry]

Many people live under a delusion that life is always worth living, they are in denial of the fact that things can get that hopeless that one would consider ctb. They therefore dismiss all suicidal people as irrational. Non suicidal people will never be able to comprehend what it is like to want to exit this world. I see wanting suicide as being perfectly rational in a life as horrible as this, at least it is in my case.
Suicide should not be so stigmatised. It is our life and our decision and it is nothing to do with anyone else.

 

[Ta555]

Many people live under a delusion that life is always worth living, they are in denial of the fact that things can get that hopeless that one would consider ctb. They therefore dismiss all suicidal people as irrational. Non suicidal people will never be able to comprehend what it is like to want to exit this world. I see wanting suicide as being perfectly rational in a life as horrible as this, at least it is in my case.
Suicide should not be so stigmatised. It is our life and our decision and it is nothing to do with anyone else.

You are always so eloquent... That's exactly it. It's our decision but they want us to believe it's not. That for some reason bodily autonomy doesn't extend to the right to end one's bodily life. I think in Germany they recently recognised suicide as a human right??

 

[D&D]

Very philosophical and well said!!

Thank you.

 

[Pluto]

It's worth keeping legalities in mind. If a mental health professional says it's OK to CTB, they could possibly end up in jail.

 

[Ta555]

It's worth keeping legalities in mind. If a mental health professional says it's OK to CTB, they could possibly end up in jail.

This is true. Though I wasn't meaning a specific individual, I just mean the mental health field as a whole. Society as a whole. Wish they would realise CTB is not a sign of mental illness or hysteria etc. That it's a legitimate and rational decision by many people due to circumstances of their life.

 

[Pluto]

That it's a legitimate and rational decision by many people due to circumstances of their life.

I can appreciate that.

Unfortunately it is a political and cultural issue. Enormous authority is wielded by fundamentalist religious organisations, governments and corporations who have a maximum of power if the population is as high as possible. Then there are genuinely messy debates that emerge around euthanasia which nobody wants to touch (let's tell grandma to CTB so we can get our $2m inheritance now!). Everyone clings to the idea that life is always worth living, partly as a tourniquet for their own pain via a positivity bias.

Social change is a slow process, though in the bigger picture, even recent events involving the NYT helps to open up debate in the mainstream. I am just grateful to live in an age where it is possible to CTB with reasonable comfort at all (thanks to this website, Exit International's work and D), and the fact that there are hurdles to jump through is a healthy means of discouraging those who are just going through a temporary rough patch. Though a bit of understanding and respect from society would be nice.

 

[little helpers]

Well yeah, it's their job to try to keep you alive.

what psychology claims itself to be:
"to allow humans to unlock their potentials in achieving a better existence for themselves"

what psychologists are all bound by:
"well we cannot say that non-existence is a form of existence"

what psychologists actually do:
force you to live. cuz that's all they been taught or have to do. cuz if any doctor or nurse allowed me to jailbreak the fucking psych ward, I guess they'd get a write-up, or be fired, probably.

that takes us to the next great deal - what psychology is, in effect:
turning humans on their fucking heads. through grave ignorance of the human condition, while claiming to hold authority over it.

 

[rationalis]

I think therapists and psychologists and psychiatrists are eager to stop clients from killing themselves, because it could hurt their professional reputation. Licensing boards, lawsuits, and general media attention.

 

[Ta555]

I can appreciate that.

Unfortunately it is a political and cultural issue. Enormous authority is wielded by fundamentalist religious organisations, governments and corporations who have a maximum of power if the population is as high as possible. Then there are genuinely messy debates that emerge around euthanasia which nobody wants to touch (let's tell grandma to CTB so we can get our $2m inheritance now!). Everyone clings to the idea that life is always worth living, partly as a tourniquet for their own pain via a positivity bias.

Social change is a slow process, though in the bigger picture, even recent events involving the NYT helps to open up debate in the mainstream. I am just grateful to live in an age where it is possible to CTB with reasonable comfort at all (thanks to this website, Exit International's work and D), and the fact that there are hurdles to jump through is a healthy means of discouraging those who are just going through a temporary rough patch. Though a bit of understanding and respect from society would be nice.

Very well put! Unfortunately many people including myself do not have access to N so there is no CTB with reasonable comfort for us :(

 

[myopybyproxy]

They also don't want to understand and treat suicidal people like they are crazy or irrational when suicide sometimes is the most rational solution to end one's suffering. It's insulting and degrading to be thought of as mad or irrational or hysterical because you want to end your pain.

I wish I could like this a thousand times. Someone fucking gets it. Thank you.

Many people live under a delusion that life is always worth living, they are in denial of the fact that things can get that hopeless that one would consider ctb. They therefore dismiss all suicidal people as irrational. Non suicidal people will never be able to comprehend what it is like to want to exit this world. I see wanting suicide as being perfectly rational in a life as horrible as this, at least it is in my case.
Suicide should not be so stigmatised. It is our life and our decision and it is nothing to do with anyone else.

This.

 

[Ta555]

I wish I could like this a thousand times. Someone fucking gets it. Thank you.

This.

Ah thank you! Glad my thoughts resonate with someone :)

 

[myopybyproxy]

I have nothing to add to this thread really - everyone else said it all - but I just wanted to say how (glad? I'm not sure what to call this feeling) I am that I have found people like me - who are not constantly spouting the same euphemistic hyperpositive bullshit. I have had these exact thoughts as OP and other posters for most of my life. It is a blessing to find likeminded souls in this cold and desolate planet.

 

[ket]

It's worth keeping legalities in mind. If a mental health professional says it's OK to CTB, they could possibly end up in jail.

legit, you will never have a clinician agree that is rational for you to kill yourself. it sucks, right? like, i'm trying to be reasonable about suicide here! but your position is always a hard no, so what's the point? ah well…

a psych's job is to keep your car on the road, not to veer you mercifully off the cliff - it doesn't matter if you hate driving.