No one understands consciousness

[wildflowers1996]

Or understands how it arose.

It seems that either:

a) Unconscious complexity led to (human) consciousness, or:

b) Something conscious created (human) consciousness, or:

c) (Human) consciousness has no cause and just came from nowhere

I'm guessing most people here probably think a) and I doubt anyone thinks c)

I suspect b) is probably seen as a "god of the gaps" argument, but what evidence supports a)? genuinely curious

 

[Hotsackage]

I'm familiar with it, look up the integrated information theory or IIT of consciousness

 

[sserafim]

Consciousness stems from the brain. It arises biologically. However, it somehow also transcends biology into the spiritual and metaphysical

 

[black and white]

None of it.

It's probable that it cames progressively (actually more by brutal steps in fact..) into human beings... We Can sée différent steps:
-ability to understand the principles of simple tools... A broken stone cut me so i can use it to cut something
-ability to understand natural effect and try to use them => fire...
-ability to understand the process of death, then remembering the deads and missing them => progressively lead to Funeral rituals
-ability to abstract yourself and others into planning hunt stratégies => developping imagination, strategical manners etc
-ability to believe => all points developped highly... But mostly the power of imagination and self persuasion... Sapiens sapiens (we) is the only human beings believing things that doesn't exist... A bank doesn't exist,it's an imaginary entity, it only exists because people believe it. Same for money, god or superbowl's advertisements...

I'm simplifying. But just saying it doesn't Come from nowhere. We were a prey (australipithecus) that discover tools (homo habilis) , and learnt fire (homo erectus), then developping hunt strategies and Funeral rituals (neenderthalensis) became a predator, and then us... Sapiens sapiens which is caracterized by a higher ability to abstraction, giving a huge importance to imagination. That's why we began to wear jeweleries, doing more developped and abstractive arts, creating spirituality with gods we never Seen, that finally made us able to live in much larger communities (tribal World is clan = big families, few dozens max... You brain still can't know deeply more than a 100 people), those much bigger communities and the ability to imagine and abstract created all what you see around you...

Its not unconscious/subconscious... Those are regulating the machinery... Like breathing automatically etc. It's nothing alike.

Consciousness is the ability to imagine, to reasonnate, to articulate different ideas and create some others etc. Now where does it Come from and how precisely? We don't really know. We just see small parts of fossiles from ancestors and Can only imagine how we arrived there... So there are no real answers. As everything WE don't really know. We like to think ourselves as very smart, but we know nothing jon snow...

 

[ijustwishtodie]

It's true that nobody understands consciousness fully, not even us. I feel like trying to understand consciousness fully would lead to a dark and harsh truth rather than a happy and joyful truth. I believe that, if we uncover the mysteries of consciousness, a lot of horror will be unleashed.

Anyways, as for why people believe in a), it's because, from our limited scientific understanding, it concludes that a) is correct or at least directly related to consciousness. Right now, all we can say is that consciousness arose from a cascade of chemical reactions, the first of which is the big bang. It's the most sensible answer given the knowledge that we have that doesn't include any bullshit religion or spirituality in it

I hope that @pthnrdnojvsc answers this question. He seems to know quite a bit about consciousness

 

[wildflowers1996]

It's true that nobody understands consciousness fully, not even us. I feel like trying to understand consciousness fully would lead to a dark and harsh truth rather than a happy and joyful truth. I believe that, if we uncover the mysteries of consciousness, a lot of horror will be unleashed.

Anyways, as for why people believe in a), it's because, from our limited scientific understanding, it concludes that a) is correct or at least directly related to consciousness. Right now, all we can say is that consciousness arose from a cascade of chemical reactions, the first of which is the big bang. It's the most sensible answer given the knowledge that we have that doesn't include any bullshit religion or spirituality in it

I hope that @pthnrdnojvsc answers this question. He seems to know quite a bit about consciousness

do you think the big bang had no cause? that "something came from nothing"?

 

[derpyderpins]

Consciousness stems from the brain. It arises biologically. However, it somehow also transcends biology into the spiritual and metaphysical

Pretty much where I am.

Or understands how it arose.

It seems that either:

a) Unconscious complexity led to (human) consciousness, or:

b) Something conscious created (human) consciousness, or:

c) (Human) consciousness has no cause and just came from nowhere

I'm guessing most people here probably think a) and I doubt anyone thinks c)

I suspect b) is probably seen as a "god of the gaps" argument, but what evidence supports a)? genuinely curious

If I take your conclusion - that those are the only three options - at its face, then I'd say a great argument for a) is to argue against b) and c).

b), if correct, would have some evidence of said conscious being, plus it is an incomplete explanation because you'd still have to ask how that being attained consciousness.

c) . . . well, you said yourself you doubt anyone thinks it, although it's hard for me to determine the difference between c) and a).

 

[black and white]

do you think the big bang had no cause? that "something came from nothing"?

Big Bang is not what you think it is... If you imagine it as "the beginning of the universe" a Big explosion that created everything, that's not it.
First of all it's just a theory... You must understand that. We don't know what happened on earth to kill dinosaurus 65millions years ago, so be sure we don't know what happened in the whole universe 13,7 billions years ago... It's a mathematical model we applied to understand the evolution of the universe, to try rewind the movie.... So if we rewind enough, the mathematical model arrive at a point we call "singularity", it's a Time about 13,7 billions years in the past were thé model tells us that the universe was so small and hot that all the matter and the energy was condensed in a primary magma, and then being released (=>Big bang). First it's just a mathematical model, which is surely not perfect and incomplete as we "understand" less than five percent of the matter and energy in the universe.... So taking this as a fact or a truth is premature.
Then even if we décide to accept that is plausible, nobody said that's the beginning or that is came from nothing. It's only the beginning of the expansion of the universe and the creation of the matter and the energy as we know it today. It's a change if state, a transformation...

Nowadays the vast majority of the scientists accept the big bang theory. But in the past they also accept the earth was flat or zeus was living up to the mount olympus....

Believing the Big bang actually is like believing in god.... It's all about something that nobody saw and we're not even sure that existed....

But yeah Lavoisier a french scientist from the 18th said "nothing is Lost, nothing is created, all is transformed"

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Consciousness refers to an awareness of yourself and the world around you, from your thoughts, feelings, memories, environment, perceptions, sensations, etc.

Honestly, I'd suggest reading this article if you want to know more about it.

One thing of note is that consciousness isn't unique to humans (though there are some unique aspects to human consciousness). It's important to note this because viewing consciousness in an anthropocentric will likely keep us from actually finding any answers to your question. Consciousness can be seen in many other animal species, especially in different species of mammals. When discussing why consciousness arose, we cannot look at it from a purely human-centric point of view since it likely would have arose long-prior to the existence of our species. Consciousness in of itself isn't unique to humans, thus we shouldn't purely focus on human consciousness when trying to figure out how it came to be.

(Yeah, I know. I am bad explaining things and it is probably hard to tell where I am trying to get at and I apologize for it. I am really need to work on becoming more articulate)

Anyways, I'm going to do my schoolwork now. If you are interested, this article goes into different hypotheses researchers have in regards to why consciousness arose:

Evolution of Consciousness: Phylogeny, Ontogeny, and Emergence from General Anesthesia - In the Light of Evolution - NCBI Bookshelf

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Little_Suzy]

I chose C!

 

[Dysgenic Pup]

This universe is 13,800,000,000 years old
The Earth is 4,500,000,000 years old
The modern human species is 300,000 years old

Given these sheerly incomprehensible durations of time, it's really not that surprising at all that complex human consciousness could arise from natural, inanimate, purposeless processes. Most of us live less than 100 years and behold great changes just in our lifetimes.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I agree that it feels like a monumental step in evolution. But- is it really? We can witness animals recognise themselves in a mirror...



(That one's for you @Pluto)

So- isn't that one of the first steps? To realise that we have a body with various attributes? Isn't that all consciousness is in a way?

I'm this person. I have this body. I feel like this today. I like this but not that. I hold these opinions about the world. I have these memories. I'm mortal so- I need to try and take care of myself. (Or, not in our cases.)

Plus, if we damage our brains, some of those memories/ feelings can change or be lost all together so- consciousness clearly depends on the brain.

But, it seems to me like having an ego would be beneficial to a living thing's survival. Having a sense of self can give us more of a feeling that we need to protect it. So- to me anyhow, I don't see why it couldn't have evolved- just like everything else. Just like we evolved opposable thumbs, began to walk on our hind legs, lost our tails. (I kind of wish we hadn't. I think a tail would be useful.) But, why do developments in the brain sit outside of this?

Still, it all backfires and we hate ourselves! Not sure where things like depression and mental illness sit in terms of evolution. They don't seem to bring benefits but then- I suppose they are classed as illnesses though- abnormalities. Still, you have to wonder how prevalent they will get seeing as we've by passed natural selection. We pretty much encourage the weakest to survive and thrive. Anything other than that, we start labelling eugenics. Kind of funny really. Surely, natural selection is eugenics at work. Not that I agree with eugenics either but, it's a tricky subject. Should people with hereditary health conditions- physical or mental reproduce? That's something else though.

Sometimes, I wonder if it's a trick though. As in- our brains love narrative, the mysterious, stories about our own importance. Feelings that we are important. That we can even transcend death. Doesn't actually mean that any of it is true! It could just be another part of our ego/ survival instinct- trying to keep us alive.

 

[Dead Horse]

I suspect that anyone interested in this topic would be aware of it, but if not, look up the "hard problem of consciousness" on Wikipedia.

The only honest answer right now is that nobody knows how it arises and not only that, but also that based on our understanding of how physics works, it shouldn't arise, or at least we couldn't even imagine a way to actually explain it. Yet, our own self is proof that it does exist. Hence the characterization as a hard problem.

The longer I think about this, the less outrageous I find the idea of panpsychism, according to which consciousness is a fundamental feature of reality.

When it comes to other fundamental features of matter, there is a point where we are just willing to accept that things are just the way they are. Like, why do positive and negative charges attract each other? The answer is the electromagnetic force, but that still doesn't answer the question of how. How/why does it actually happen? We seem to accept that the electromagnetic force is just fundamental. Maybe consciousness is just fundamental, too.

 

[BruhXDDDDD]

I suspect that anyone interested in this topic would be aware of it, but if not, look up the "hard problem of consciousness" on Wikipedia.

The only honest answer right now is that nobody knows how it arises and not only that, but also that based on our understanding of how physics works, it shouldn't arise, or at least we couldn't even imagine a way to actually explain it. Yet, our own self is proof that it does exist. Hence the characterization as a hard problem.

The longer I think about this, the less outrageous I find the idea of panpsychism, according to which consciousness is a fundamental feature of reality.

When it comes to other fundamental features of matter, there is a point where we are just willing to accept that things are just the way they are. Like, why do positive and negative charges attract each other? The answer is the electromagnetic force, but that still doesn't answer the question of how. How/why does it actually happen? We seem to accept that the electromagnetic force is just fundamental. Maybe consciousness is just fundamental, too.

mad respect for explaining these ideas without sounding like a schizo like I usually do

 

[DarkRange55]

Consciousness stems from the brain. It arises biologically. However, it somehow also transcends biology into the spiritual and metaphysical

Or biology includes what you are calling spiritual and metaphysical...