Nietzsche's Eternal Reoccurance

[Wayfaerer]

Is anyone else utterly terrified of this? To relive our lives back-to-back for an eternity, never knowing peace? A heaven for some, but a literal hell for others. If I had been aware of this concept at 16, I might have ended it all there but it looks like it wasn't in fate's plans. I cannot stomach the thought of doing this forever and ever and ever. We'll have oblivion if we are very lucky!

 

[NitriteAnatomy]

Yeah, that's a disturbing thought I've entertained over the years. What if our lives are on some kind of eternal loop, in which we just relive the exact same shit on repeat. Not a fun thought at all and certainly is a terrifying one.

 

[Nnana]

That'd be hell. Eternal reoccurence, quantum immortality, open individualism, reincarnation... etc.. Are all ideas that drive me crazy and make me even more afraid to commit suicide. I wish death was eternal peace and cessation of this curse which is consciousness. But unhappily, I got a strong feeling that death may not be the end. If I came once from nothing, why not twice or infinite times? I hope I'm wrong.

 

[WilliamKline]

Just reading Wikipedia on this:

"The basic premise proceeds from the assumption that the probability of a world coming into existence exactly like our own is nonzero. If space and time are infinite, then it follows logically that our existence must recur an infinite number of times."

=> In this logic, other existences in which we are different people or live under different circumstances will also occur an infinite number of times.

 

[Wayfaerer]

If I came once from nothing, why not twice or infinite times? I hope I'm wrong.

Exactly.

 

[ThingWithFeathers]

It's a philosophical concept and a belief in the Dharmic religions (reincarnation). From a science perspective, when the body dies the elements in our body scatter away or combine with some other elements. We do not return in any shape or form. In fact, all that is "matter" within us remains in this earth, it's just our existence that perishes.

 

[Wayfaerer]

It's a philosophical concept and a belief in the Dharmic religions (reincarnation). From a science perspective, when the body dies the elements in our body scatter away or combine with some other elements. We do not return in any shape or form. In fact, all that is "matter" within us remains in this earth, it's just our existence that perishes.

At least with the traditional understanding of reincarnation, we reincarnate as other people. Eternal reoccurance means we are forced to relive our lives for all time.

Just reading Wikipedia on this:

"The basic premise proceeds from the assumption that the probability of a world coming into existence exactly like our own is nonzero. If space and time are infinite, then it follows logically that our existence must recur an infinite number of times."

=> In this logic, other existences in which we are different people or live under different circumstances will also occur an infinite number of times.

Should this be the case, that's at least much better than reincarnating as ourselves over and over again.

 

[KiraLittleOwl]

Just reading Wikipedia on this:

"The basic premise proceeds from the assumption that the probability of a world coming into existence exactly like our own is nonzero. If space and time are infinite, then it follows logically that our existence must recur an infinite number of times."

=> In this logic, other existences in which we are different people or live under different circumstances will also occur an infinite number of times.

How can we live as different people? This is requires the concept of soul to be true.
If it is not true it's just not us.

 

[Jean Améry]

He didn't posit it as a fact, more of a thought experiment with a moral content: one should live one's life as one would have to live it over and over again.

Why be frightened of something that is not only not certain but highly unlikely? The universe/nature is a constant state of change and flux so why would we be the exception somehow?

 

[Wayfaerer]

He didn't posit it as a fact, more of a thought experiment with a moral content: one should live one's life as one would have to live it over and over again.

Why be frightened of something that is not only not certain but highly unlikely? The universe/nature is a constant state of change and flux so why would we be the exception somehow?

I know it was just a thought experiment but he might have been correct accidentally. The universe expands and contracts over trillions upon trillions of years. Who is to say that when the next big bang happens, the causal chain isn't identical?

 

[Fragile]

i think that this concept is definitely possible, maybe at some point the universe itself "resets" and everything goes back to being what it was, including the matter that made us and therefore consciousness stars again. we can mathematically calculate and know exactly how an explosion will play out, and since the big bang is at its core an explosion, then everything is set in stone and every single outcome is already predefined, even life itself and us making this exact question so in a way fate is definitely real.

who knows how many infinite loops of being ourselves we have lived through, at the same time i think that reincarnation is possible even without the concept of a soul being real, because the matter and energy that made us gets reused into a different alive being, so once we die, at some point we will wake up as something else and consciousness will start again.

pretty scary stuff if it's real, it even makes me hope that i cease to exist for all eternity once i'm dead.
the worst part is that we will never know, and infinite versions of ourselves will live, suffer and then die the same way forever without even knowing.

 

[NitriteAnatomy]

i think that this concept is definitely possible, maybe at some point the universe itself "resets" and everything goes back to being what it was, including the matter that made us and therefore consciousness stars again. we can mathematically calculate and know exactly how an explosion will play out, and since the big bang is at its core an explosion, then everything is set in stone and every single outcome is already predefined, even life itself and us making this exact question so in a way fate is definitely real.

who knows how many infinite loops of being ourselves we have lived through, at the same time i think that reincarnation is possible even without the concept of a soul being real, because the matter and energy that made us gets reused into a different alive being, so once we die, at some point we will wake up as something else and consciousness will start again.

pretty scary stuff if it's real, it even makes me hope that i cease to exist for all eternity once i'm dead.
the worst part is that we will never know, and infinite versions of ourselves will live, suffer and then die the same way forever without even knowing.

It also makes a certain bit of sense, when you consider that everything in the universe is information based. I tend to liken it to a computer system. If we wipe the hard drive, that information vanishes and begins anew, but there are usually ways to restore that lost information. Unless it were destroyed/wiped perfectly and begins from a completely clean slate, then probability takes control. Like....if you play a lot of video games, prior to the wipe, then it's highly probable you will have games, even the same ones, reinstalled, thus 'repeating' the prior history, in a way.

 

[Temporarilyabsurd]

Time and space are intertwined - inseparable.

So , although this doesn't discount the theoretical possibility of infinite recurrence ..
it does stack another layer of complexity to be duplicated.

Now ; pushing the boundaries to say : there may be parallel universes spawned from "our" big bang ..
( maybe the dark matter world ? ) , then , those universes may have some interaction with ours , so
that with each theoretical recurrence EVERY parallel universe has to be identical to seamlessly duplicate our present situation .

At that level of complexity the odds start to fall dramatically.

Now , as a firm Douglas Adams'ian and colander hat wearer , I have always held true to the least likely being the most probable , based on the "share and enjoy" mantra. ( Blue whales do manifest in entirety, hurtling towards "hopefully friendly " planets along with vases of tulips . ( Indisputable.))

But , some would disagree.

I think Nietzsche was bashing on against the conditioning and adjustment inculcation .
( For a regimented Prussian School "die for empire and king " generation , that was a pretty freaky thought.)

( Be an individual ? A what ? We are 'the people' ... we worship god and by default , the king etc.
People were brainwashed into nothingness and grateful for it , because it removed their existential angst .
They lived without the burden of "the self". )

(But maybe this is the fourth or four millionth time I have typed this . )

I think , primarily , that "science" hasn't really even begun to lift the lid on the mysterious shit in our existence.

It probably never will , because certain tools are inappropriate for uncertain problems ?

( I am SO smart .... coincidentally, it is thunder and lightening here , as I type ... for the first time ? )

 

[MissNietzsche]

No, it was a thought experiment..basically a YOLO. He never intended for it to be taken seriously

I know it was just a thought experiment but he might have been correct accidentally. The universe expands and contracts over trillions upon trillions of years. Who is to say that when the next big bang happens, the causal chain isn't identical?

I guess I've never thought of it actually being taken seriously..ever heard of the infinite monkey theorem?

 

[APharmaDestroyedLife]

Our limited brains have no ability to process what reality actually is. All science , all religion , all theories are invented by our primitive brains that are bound to 5 senses and a 3 dimensional perception.

Our fears come from our survival instincts which are primitive and hardwired into us as a mechanism to keep our species alive. In a universe of infinite time and possibilities it is highly unlikely Humans have ever figure out life or death in any theories or religions.

It's just as likely that we become cheeseburgers. But I am a primitive human and that is just my opinion.

 

[WilliamKline]

How can we live as different people? This is requires the concept of soul to be true.
If it is not true it's just not us.

You think we would be the same when our circumstances were different?

edit: if it's the case that we become different people given different circumstances I guess Nitsche was right, if there is such a thing as an afterlife.

 

[notjustyetagain]

there's a physical basis to this, under some cosmological models. see poincaré recurrence theorem.