BeeLoyal

BeeLoyal

Is Existence Just A Test?
Apr 27, 2020
105
Okay so I was wondering, you always hear about people who have had near death experiences, that they either have seen "nothingness" or some even say they have seen the gates to the paradies/ or light.
Well, if there is a god, the god would obviously know that you`re surviving since its the allmighty god, no?
Or am I interpreting it wrong? but of course the god would not show you the gates to the paradies if he knows its not your time yet.
My mother has been resuscitated years ago, she said she saw nothing, which makes the most sense for me, but this doesnt mean there is no god, neither does it mean there is a god if somebody sees a light.

Just wanted to know your guys opinions on this. Don't feel attacked or anything please, I am not representating any religion okay.

(I personally am not sure if theres a god or not, I do wish to believe that there is some sort of Karma or Justice system in or after life though. Officially I am not in the church anymore, but I will perhaps join the protestants.)
 
Reiraku

Reiraku

Member
May 5, 2020
69
Either those people willfully lie or they misinterpret some sort of hallucinations they have in a half-conscious state. I assume the first. It's nothing but superstition.
 
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K

KiraLittleOwl

Lost in transition
Jan 25, 2019
1,083
I wouldn't rely on that as a proof of afterlife. There are plenty of people who claim they were abducted by aliens.
 
TheGoodGuy

TheGoodGuy

Visionary
Aug 27, 2018
2,999
People in that state of mind experience those hallucinations because the brain releases DMT which is a hallucinogen it is also the active drug in ayahuasca so what they are seeing when they say they saw "god" or the gates to heaven is just their own projection and I am sure they were religious or at least agnostic so they saw what they wanted to see. Had religion never been invented I gaurantee you they would never had seen any of those things.
 
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Cashewmilk

Cashewmilk

Specialist
Mar 10, 2020
352
Yeah I think it's a hallucination or a dream. I don't pay attention to it. I do love the OA Netflix show... now that's amazing! Lol... I think it's nothingness after death. Consider this, do you remember the time before you were born? Do you remember all your dreams, have you ever blacked out from being too drunk? That's probably what death is like, we spend half our lives in the darkness, while sleeping. I'm 99.99% sure there is nothing after death... the other percentage is my agnosticism lol. We are animals, we're nothing special imo, why would humans only have life after death? What about dogs? If dogs do, what about bugs? If bugs do, what about bacteria? Where does it end? What makes us so special? Because we can think about it? Then why are we animals at all!? Lol, somehow during evolution we were injected with magic so we can live on forever in some dream? No...it's most likely going to be a very very deep peaceful sleep, and you'll never have to wake up! Ahh, what's more heavenly than that? Fuck I would hate bright lights in some cloudy paradise with a white bearded old man lol
 
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Didymus

Didymus

Clutching at invisible straws
Dec 11, 2018
348
No one knows what comes after death. No one.
 
last_tour

last_tour

Member
Apr 8, 2020
62
From what I read about the topic, from Eben Alexander's book theres different stages in the after life. The gateway as you described is pitch black, once you've died you then enter the next realm described to be 'more real than this current life and highly intelligent reality that can't be fully comprehended as long as we are human'.

He claims he had complete brain death due to the meningitis (no brain activity, no activity meaning impossible to have hallucinations)

Alexander also addresses many arguments we make against the after life. He mentions things like DMT, drugs and other chemicals in the brain that might cause visions but say it was impossble for them to hallucinations since his brain had completely shut off (this is from the book Proof of Heaven):

Neuroscientific Hypotheses I Considered to Explain My Experience

In reviewing my recollections with several other neurosurgeons and scientists, I entertained several hypotheses that might explain my memories. Cutting right to the chase, they all failed to explain the rich, robust, intricate interactivity of the Gateway and Core experiences (the "ultra-reality"). These included:

1. A primitive brainstem program to ease terminal pain and suffering ("evolutionary argument"—possibly as a remnant of "feigned-death" strategies from lower mammals?). This did not explain the robust, richly interactive nature of the recollections.

2. The distorted recall of memories from deeper parts of the limbic system (for example, the lateral amygdala) that have enough overlying brain to be relatively protected from the meningitic inflammation, which occurs mainly at the brain's surface. This did not explain the robust, richly interactive nature of the recollections.

3. Endogenous glutamate blockade with excitotoxicity, mimicking the hallucinatory anesthetic, ketamine (occasionally used to explain NDEs in general). I occasionally saw the effects of ketamine used as an anesthetic during the earlier part of my neurosurgical career at Harvard Medical School. The hallucinatory state it induced was most chaotic and unpleasant, and bore no resemblance whatsoever to my experience in coma.

4. N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) "dump" (from the pineal, or elsewhere in the brain). DMT, a naturally occurring serotonin agonist (specifically at the 5-HT1A, 5- HT2A and 5-HT2C receptors), causes vivid hallucinations and a dreamlike state. I am personally familiar with drug experiences related to serotonin agonist/antagonists (that is, LSD, mescaline) from my teen years in the early 1970s. I have had no personal experience with DMT but have seen patients under its influence. The rich ultra-reality would still require fairly intact auditory and visual neocortex as target regions in which to generate such a rich audiovisual experience as I had in coma. Prolonged coma due to bacterial meningitis had badly damaged my neocortex, which is where all of that serotonin from the raphe nuclei in the brainstem (or DMT, a serotonin agonist) would have had effects on visual/auditory experience. But my cortex was off, and the DMT would have had no place in the brain to act. The DMT hypothesis failed on the basis of the ultra-reality of the audiovisual experience, and
lack of cortex on which to act.

5. Isolated preservation of cortical regions might have explained some of my experience, but were most unlikely, given the severity of my meningitis and its refractoriness to therapy for a week: peripheral white blood cell (WBC) count over 27,000 per mm3, 31 percent bands with toxic granulations, CSF WBC count over 4,300 per mm3, CSF glucose down to 1.0 mg/dl, CSF protein 1,340 mg/dl, diffuse meningeal involvement with associated brain abnormalities revealed on my enhanced CT scan, and neurological exams showing severe alterations in cortical function and dysfunction of extraocular motility, indicative of brainstem damage.

6. In an effort to explain the "ultra-reality" of the experience, I examined this hypothesis: Was it possible that networks of inhibitory neurons might have been predominantly affected, allowing for unusually high levels of activity among the excitatory neuronal networks to generate the apparent "ultra-reality" of my experience? One would expect meningitis to preferentially disturb the superficial cortex, possibly leaving deeper layers partially functional. The computing unit of the neocortex is the six-layered "functional column," each with a lateral diameter of 0.2– 0.3 mm. There is significant interwiring laterally to immediately adjacent columns in response to modulatory control signals that originate largely from subcortical regions (the thalamus, basal ganglia, and brainstem). Each functional column has a component at the surface (layers 1–3), so that meningitis effectively disrupts the function of each column just by damaging the surface layers of the cortex. The anatomical distribution of inhibitory and excitatory cells, which have a fairly balanced distribution within the six layers, does not support this hypothesis. Diffuse meningitis over the brain's surface effectively disables the entire neocortex due to this columnar architecture. Full-thickness destruction is unnecessary for total functional disruption. Given the prolonged course of my poor neurological function (seven days) and the severity of my infection, it is unlikely that even deeper layers of the cortex were still functioning.

7. The thalamus, basal ganglia, and brainstem are deeper brain structures ("subcortical regions") that some colleagues postulated might have contributed to the processing of such hyperreal experiences. In fact, none of those structures could play any such role without having at least some regions of the neocortex still intact. All agreed in the end that such subcortical structures alone could not have handled the intense neural calculations required for such a richly interactive experiential tapestry.

8. A "reboot phenomenon"—a random dump of bizarre disjointed memories due to old
memories in the damaged neocortex, which might occur on restarting the cortex into consciousness after a prolonged system-wide failure, as in my diffuse meningitis. Especially given the intricacies of my elaborate recollections, this seems most unlikely.

9. Unusual memory generation through an archaic visual pathway through the midbrain, prominently used in birds but only rarely identifiable in humans. It can be demonstrated in humans who are cortically blind, due to damaged occipital cortex. It provided no clue as to the ultra-reality I witnessed, and failed to explain the auditory- visual interleaving.

the god would not show you the gates to the paradies if he knows its not your time yet.

I don't see why god should be involved here. I think its more of a process like going from point A to B, once you die maybe the quantum particles in our brain that create consciousness go somewhere? and if there is no way of returning to the body it eventually makes it to the gateway, but theres the rare instance you are able to return. Real or not its an interesting to know.
 
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braketimez

braketimez

Specialist
Mar 15, 2020
340
From what I read about the topic, from Eben Alexander's book theres different stages in the after life. The gateway as you described is pitch black, once you've died you then enter the next realm described to be 'more real than this current life and highly intelligent reality that can't be fully comprehended as long as we are human'.

He claims he had complete brain death due to the meningitis (no brain activity, no activity meaning impossible to have hallucinations)

Alexander also addresses many arguments we make against the after life. He mentions things like DMT, drugs and other chemicals in the brain that might cause visions but say it was impossble for them to hallucinations since his brain had completely shut off (this is from the book Proof of Heaven):





I don't see why god should be involved here. I think its more of a process like going from point A to B, once you die maybe the quantum particles in our brain that create consciousness go somewhere? and if there is no way of returning to the body it eventually makes it to the gateway, but theres the rare instance you are able to return. Real or not its an interesting to know.

I've heard of this book before. Nothing special...as no one can prove his brain was truly entirely shut down. Tools of measurement in science fall short.
 
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Cashewmilk

Cashewmilk

Specialist
Mar 10, 2020
352
I've heard of this book before. Nothing special...as no one can prove his brain was truly entirely shut down. Tools of measurement in science fall short.

I agree. And the very fact that he is alive to tell the story, is just further proof that it's a hallucination. He (and others like him) could have dreamt this in the moments or seconds before or after the brain death, or it could even be a cluster of memories and information that regurgitated itself after his brain re-started. Reading the description makes me think of my dreams, I have extremely vivid technicolor dreams where I can truly feel everything, pain and anguish, intoxication, even flying, swimming, I can hear everything, it's so real that I start talking and try to move but I can't etc. Maybe that's why it's hard for me to buy it. And then there is the other reality of it all, it could be lies to sell books and sell something to the masses, or maybe he truly believes it himself but is mistaken.
 
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last_tour

last_tour

Member
Apr 8, 2020
62
Yeah, even if it may not be entirely true theres one thing i always wondered about. If the brain is capable of creating a sophisticated reality through hallucination in near death situation even when its barely active (like in Alexanders case), how can we be sure we won't at least experience something? The Brain can still be active for 6 minutes without oxygen before complete brain death so its possible to live another life time within that time because of time dialation (Im sure you had dreams that felt like it lasted several days but woke up to find only an hour has passed) It could go on infinitely at the quantum level.
 
M

mr nobody

Member
Apr 8, 2020
71
He (and others like him) could have dreamt this in the moments or seconds before or after the brain death

This is a very good point, as it is impossible for him to know the timeframe of his "experience" relative to real life. Perception of time in dreams Is far different than real life. One's dreams could seem like hours or days, but in fact are only minutes in real life.
 
braketimez

braketimez

Specialist
Mar 15, 2020
340
Yeah, even if it may not be entirely true theres one thing i always wondered about. If the brain is capable of creating a sophisticated reality through hallucination in near death situation even when its barely active (like in Alexanders case), how can we be sure we won't at least experience something? The Brain can still be active for 6 minutes without oxygen before complete brain death so its possible to live another life time within that time because of time dialation (Im sure you had dreams that felt like it lasted several days but woke up to find only an hour has passed) It could go on infinitely at the quantum level.

This is more plausible. The experience of time is extremely subjective. Sometimes I fear in the case of CTB, that I will spend what seems like hundreds of years in a "dream" where I feel excruciating pain in my body. A biological Hell, so to speak.
 
last_tour

last_tour

Member
Apr 8, 2020
62
This is more plausible. The experience of time is extremely subjective. Sometimes I fear in the case of CTB, that I will spend what seems like hundreds of years in a "dream" where I feel excruciating pain in my body. A biological Hell, so to speak.
Thats the reason i'l probably never CTB with slow methods like benzos + drowning where the brain is still actively functioning (coma state). I had mild sleep apnea before, and everytime i stopped breathing in my sleep I woke up having the worst type of nightmares. I think the best way to avoid hallucinations from occuring with CTB would be to use a method like guillotine, shotgun to the head, or jumping head first too so its physically impossible for the brain to create any imagery. Im still on the fence about whether SN still leaves the brain functioning at some level before complete brain death occurs.
 

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