My Potential Suicide -- My thoughts on the possibility of my suicide

[DepressedSloth]

(This is some writing that I'm working on that seeks to put forth some arguments against common anti-suicide sentiments and objections that I've come across. This writing is unfinished but I wanted to post what I have so far and see what people on here think.)

Basically I consider the option of suicide because I experience a lot of suffering and very little happiness, and overall I would say my life has not been, is currently not, and probably will continue not to be worth living. To end my life would be to put an end to the misery and suffering that I do not want to endure.

There can be many objections to, and arguments against my reasoning regarding potential suicide.

Objection 1: Due to my depression and other mental health issues, my reasoning might be attributed to pathology, and my thought process might be considered invalid as a result of the tendency for mental health issues to lead to distorted thinking.

Objection 2: It could be said that there is a possibility for my experience in life to improve and therefore reach a point where it would be worth staying alive.

Objection 3: My suicide can have a very negative effect on others.

Other Objections: suicide being inherently 'wrong', life being inherently 'valuable', potential for failure, 'afterlife consequences'

Objection 1—Counterpoint 1: To pathologize the source of an argument in order to invalidate said argument is flawed. The fact of the matter is that either side can be pathologized, and furthermore, society as a whole can be conceptualized as the product of various sociological pathologies; the result of collective cultural and psychological influences.

1.1 The pathology of non-depressed/mentally healthy people: People tend to have an optimism bias. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780128166604000039 If healthy human beings were meant to see reality more clearly and have a more realistic perception of the world around them, then 'positive filtering' would certainly need to be added to the list of cognitive distortions, right next to 'negative thinking'; and Cognitive Behavioral Therapy would probably need to be used just as much for positive and optimistic distortions of perception as it is currently used to combat people's negative cognitive distortions (e.g. catastrophic thinking, negative filtering, etc.). In fact, I find the concept of cognitive distortions quite useful as a topic for addressing the typical and common anti-suicide sentiment of most people. The idea that suicide is innately bad and ought to be prevented is a good example of black and white thinking. The idea that depressed people are incapable of thinking rationally is quite the generalization. And alongside the negative cognitive distortions like catastrophic thinking, and negative filtering, there is a gap where the inverse could otherwise be there; wishful/grandiose thinking, positive filtering.

1.1.1 The optimism bias, good or bad? Evolutions lack of foresight and other issues

1.1.2 The perceptions of depressed people: There are certainly many instances where low mood can negatively distort people's perceptions. But there are also many examples of the tendency for depressed individuals to have a more accurate perception of reality than the non-depressed. https://doi.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037/0096-3445.108.4.441 Because no one is immune to bias and distorted thinking, pathology should not be used as an excuse to invalidate someone's point of view, and it also shouldn't be used as an excuse to deny autonomy regarding someone's end of life decisions. There is something rather horrific about the idea of someone suffering miserably and simultaneously being completely correct in their assessment of their own prognosis, and yet being denied the right to die due to the sentiments and feelings of those who are mentally healthy according to conventional standards, yet nonetheless completely irrational in their assessment of such a predicament; people who then go on to invalidate the suffering person's point of view and to excuse this invalidation by pathologizing the person.

 

[1nhibition]

supa interesting

 

[little helpers]

1.1 The pathology of non-depressed/mentally healthy people: People tend to have an optimism bias. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780128166604000039 If healthy human beings were meant to see reality more clearly and have a more realistic perception of the world around them, then 'positive filtering' would certainly need to be added to the list of cognitive distortions, right next to 'negative thinking'; and Cognitive Behavioral Therapy would probably need to be used just as much for positive and optimistic distortions of perception as it is currently used to combat people's negative cognitive distortions (e.g. catastrophic thinking, negative filtering, etc.). In fact, I find the concept of cognitive distortions quite useful as a topic for addressing the typical and common anti-suicide sentiment of most people. The idea that suicide is innately bad and ought to be prevented is a good example of black and white thinking. The idea that depressed people are incapable of thinking rationally is quite the generalization. And alongside the negative cognitive distortions like catastrophic thinking, and negative filtering, there is a gap where the inverse could otherwise be there; wishful/grandiose thinking, positive filtering.

well-said.

 

[davidgeorge]

@sleepyslothman, what do you mean by 'afterlife consequences'?

 

[Snake of Eden]

1.1 The pathology of non-depressed/mentally healthy people: People tend to have an optimism bias. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780128166604000039 If healthy human beings were meant to see reality more clearly and have a more realistic perception of the world around them, then 'positive filtering' would certainly need to be added to the list of cognitive distortions, right next to 'negative thinking'; and Cognitive Behavioral Therapy would probably need to be used just as much for positive and optimistic distortions of perception as it is currently used to combat people's negative cognitive distortions

I wholheartedly agree. We pathologize negative thinking because it is unsavory and will interfere with our enjoyments of life but this is not realistic. However, as a believer of the laws of attraction, I must admit that positive beliefs is likely to be more conducive towards achieving our desires. This is also problematic because desires that are not grounded in the reality of how we are as species and the world around us, could backfire in the manner of "be careful what you wish for" and this is exactly what is happening right now in the world as many people are using the laws of attraction to get what they want but in process causing alot of imbalances of resource allocation and focusing on the things that does not serve the rest of disadvantaged humanity, animal kingdom, enviroment and increasing the odds of future catastrophes and wars that will bring the end of us as an advanced civilization. There is a huge imbalance when our positivity is not grounded in reality and add to that hyper indivisualism and solipsism which paints the picture of imbalanced ideology of modern masses that will simmer things to the point of cosmic explosion scale

 

[dreadpirateroberts69]

In fact, I find the concept of cognitive distortions quite useful as a topic for addressing the typical and common anti-suicide sentiment of most people. The idea that suicide is innately bad and ought to be prevented is a good example of black and white thinking. The idea that depressed people are incapable of thinking rationally is quite the generalization.

Because no one is immune to bias and distorted thinking, pathology should not be used as an excuse to invalidate someone's point of view, and it also shouldn't be used as an excuse to deny autonomy regarding someone's end of life decisions. There is something rather horrific about the idea of someone suffering miserably and simultaneously being completely correct in their assessment of their own prognosis, and yet being denied the right to die due to the sentiments and feelings of those who are mentally healthy according to conventional standards, yet nonetheless completely irrational in their assessment of such a predicament; people who then go on to invalidate the suffering person's point of view and to excuse this invalidation by pathologizing the person.

Great points and very well written! I especially like what you've said in these particular bits. It really reveals the flawed thinking of those who are anti choice, and even better, shows how this line of thinking can easily be used to refute them. The fact that we want to die doesn't make us crazy, that's just what "normal" people want to believe.

 

[DepressedSloth]

@sleepyslothman, what do you mean by 'afterlife consequences'?

Some people believe in an afterlife and that suicide is somehow punished; I don't believe either of those things personally, and don't think people should be worried about that.

I wholheartedly agree. We pathologize negative thinking because it is unsavory and will interfere with our enjoyments of life but this is not realistic. However, as a believer of the laws of attraction, I must admit that positive beliefs is likely to be more conducive towards achieving our desires. This is also problematic because desires that are not grounded in the reality of how we are as species and the world around us, could backfire in the manner of "be careful what you wish for" and this is exactly what is happening right now in the world as many people are using the laws of attraction to get what they want but in process causing alot of imbalances of resource allocation and focusing on the things that does not serve the rest of disadvantaged humanity, animal kingdom, enviroment and increasing the odds of future catastrophes and wars that will bring the end of us as an advanced civilization. There is a huge imbalance when our positivity is not grounded in reality and add to that hyper indivisualism and solipsism which paints the picture of imbalanced ideology of modern masses that will simmer things to the point of cosmic explosion scale

I agree that positive beliefs can lead to good outcomes, but there are also limits to this. I recomend learning (if you don't already know) about the history of law of attraction and similar beliefs: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_attraction_(New_Thought)#cite_ref-plato.stanford.edu_9-1

You can skip the parts that criticize it if you want, but at least learn about the sources; different authors and people who wrote about these things.

I agree with what you said about things being very unbalanced; the wealth distribution is absurd, the environment is being destroyed more and more all for profits, so many people are suffering because of financial issues, not having housing or food security, etc. A small portion of people are hoarding wealth, resources, and power, and so many people are suffering because of it. My prediction is that once shit really hits the fan from the effects of climate change, a lot more people are going to see suicide as a reasonable choice. Looking at all the effects that are yet to come is pretty bleak. I hope to be gone when the worst of it happens.

 

[DepressedSloth]

The short answer for Objection 2. (that life could get better) is that if the chances are very low, then it comes down to a gamble of choosing to live based on a low chance of things getting better, and most likely just suffering more unless one is very lucky and actually does get better, or choosing to put an end to the suffering which guarentees that one won't get better but also guarentees that one won't suffer anymore. No one should be forced or obligated to endure so much suffering based on a small chance that things will get better. It should be a personal choice; to either keep living and trying to improve life, or not.

Objection 3: negative impact on others

This one is hard for me because it's true that suicide often traumatizes friends and family. So it's understandable if someone chooses to live for this reason.

My only argument here is to say that someone shouldn't be obligated or forced to stay alive for this reason. So again, it comes down to having a personal choice regarding one's own life—however, perhaps with a caveat; if someone has a child to take care of for example. In that instance it could be said that someone has a responsibility as a parent to take care of their child(ren). Of course their can be all kinds of different situations, details, and nuances that change things, and it would be tedious to go on and on about hypotheticals, so I'll just stop here.

 

[Snake of Eden]

I agree that positive beliefs can lead to good outcomes, but there are also limits to this. I recomend learning (if you don't already know) about the history of law of attraction and similar beliefs: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_attraction_(New_Thought)#cite_ref-plato.stanford.edu_9-1

You can skip the parts that criticize it if you want, but at least learn about the sources; different authors and people who wrote about these things.

Not at all. I dont mind the criticism. And i also said before it is limited and subjective as the effect cant be measured because it is subtle. my understanding of the laws of attraction is based on my own subjective experience with it and i didnt read much about it. Please check my thread i creates about that few days ago if you like

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...manifesting-works-the-secret-explained.82128/

 

[DepressedSloth]

Other Objections: suicide being inherently 'wrong', life being inherently 'valuable', potential for failure, 'afterlife consequences'

As for these, I would say the only one worth taking seriously is the potential for failure. The others aren't even worth arguing against IMO because they sound silly and also have the burden of proof.

As for the potential for failure, this is a reasonable concern, and what I would argue is that everything in life has risks and is subject to potential mistakes. So although attempting to end life has a risk of failure and consequences, it should still be up to someone to decide whether or not it's worth accepting and taking this risk (and also minimizing it as much as possible). Also, if most societies weren't so biased against it, this wouldn't be as big an issue, as the options for medically assisted suicide are very effective and peaceful.

In conclusion, I don't think suicide is inherently a good idea, but I also don't think it's inherently a bad idea. I don't think it should be taken lightly either; it's a very serious object of decision, and it's important to really look at all the factors and options involved. The reality of suicide is vast: that there are often people who decide hastily to do it, or who do it impulsively and this can be very unfortunate and tragic, because some people might die, who would have otherwise had a relatively happy life; and some survive an attempt only to suffer further pain from the damage; and alternatively some people spend decades suffering without any purpose in life, even after trying desperately to get better or make it worthwhile; and some people are not hasty but are instead very patient and careful in their decision making, and may put an enormous effort into trying all the options to get better before deciding to check out.

First and Foremost, adult human beings deserve the autonomy of having a choice regarding their life. And also; suicide is something that should be considered carefully and with an open mind and attention to nuance, values, and reason.

Thanks for coming to my SS Ted-Talk! :D