Help My intro/vent, and my questions on how I should interact with ss

[Logos]

I'd like to take the first sentence to say sorry for my long posts.

I've done a lot of terrible and disgusting shit when I was a child. (and I will not elaborate) That is the main reason for any of my suicidal thoughts/self harm thoughts. This immense guilt/shame is also a recent-ish development, really taking off like two years ago or something. We're also talking with an additional religious guilt. Think my frontal lobe is getting up to speed or some shit idk. Fucked up late bloomer ig. Why I don't go on with ctb however makes me fucking fold, because first I'd need to get completely over my fear, I can't do that to my friends, I can't do that to my family, and I sure as hell can't do that to my best friend, who has been suicidal our entire relationship iirc. That would kill them. My best friend has already been through too much. I understand that I've gotten lucky with my best friend, hell maybe even completely so. It drives me insane that I would do far more damage than I've ever done before if I ctb. It drives me insane that when I look back, I can see exactly why I did things, and the reasons go even farther back, it's like I was somewhat predisposed to do the things I did.
I feel guilty that I've had a rather sound childhood, even if some things just completely miss the mark, I just don't fucking deserve the good things I have in life. It's like to the point where there's a good chunk of me that wouldn't at all mind being abused, and I'm not sure where else exactly where the fuck that comes from besides guilt. And it's even more odd, once people start talking about the abuse they've gone through, I feel guilty as well even though that wasn't me. Like what the fuck is that? Do I Identify that much with being the bad guy?
It's not like I feel quite in place anywhere either, there's not one place, mental or physical where I don't feel alone to some extent, that I don't belong. Everywhere I am, even if my mind's off things, deep down I will know I am a lie to others.
Other than that, I'll share that I also feel obligated to try and help people that want help in this forum. If I'm being naïve/stupid here in any way, please let me know.

My fucking flaw with one rule (only giving advice/encouragement to those who ask for it) is just on my side of things- having tried to help the same person going through so much shit over the course of like, six or eight years. How do I get over that kind of stress here? It's crushing to me.
I already think I fucked up, in the three, count em T H R E E posts I've already made before, and I'm sorry. Trying to help has become something of a yeeyee ass stupid habit of mine, and I believe that takes away the genuineness of wanting to help to at least some degree. It's not that I'm not happy to help either, or that helping is stupid, it's that the way in which I try to help has become, or always was stupid.

There's also the problem of me being so accustomed to one individual, so I'm used to their anxiety, their depression, their coping mechanisms, etc..
How would you suggest that I get accustomed to the people here besides going through the individual's posts? I get the vast majority here dislike platitudes, which is something I'd like to discuss/look into. There's just this wall made up of, 'I'm new here' and 'I don't get you' and I'd like to destroy it as much as possible.

Thanks for your time.

 

[LoiteringClouds]

Hello @Logos,
You seems to be a person who loves logic,
And you're trying to get close,
To people here, whose stories are tragic.

I've tried to debunk lies my depression tells,
But I was too emotional to be logical.
So instead I now try to be lyrical,
Like casting magic spells.

I say "it's your choice,
and you have a voice."
With all words, rhymes and reasoning I have,
I try to show them there is true love.

Why do some people choose life,
Even when their days are nothing but strife?
Because even when their heart is going to sink,
They know somebody loves them, I think.


I'm a bit late but welcome to this forum! You are aware the difference between "it will get better" and "better can be possible" and you use latter consciously, so I think you are on a good starting point.

My fucking flaw with one rule (only giving advice/encouragement to those who ask for it) is just on my side of things- having tried to help the same person going through so much shit over the course of like, six or eight years. How do I get over that kind of stress here? It's crushing to me.

I think offering advice or encouragement to people on this forum, even to people who asked for it, is extremely hard because most of them heard encouragement while their situation was getting worse, or they feel it's their fault. I think, we have to show how much we care about them in deeper level.

I'm bad at being purely logical, so I've posted poems on the other people's threads, in order to show someone actually cares about them. Most of people here are so fed up with empty promises and platitudes, so I want to show somebody makes some effort in an attempt to make their feelings a bit less unbearable. That's why I write my poems in rhyme, which requires at least some time. As a bonus, I incorporate their username in it, if I can.

There's also the problem of me being so accustomed to one individual, so I'm used to their anxiety, their depression, their coping mechanisms, etc..
How would you suggest that I get accustomed to the people here besides going through the individual's posts? I get the vast majority here dislike platitudes, which is something I'd like to discuss/look into. There's just this wall made up of, 'I'm new here' and 'I don't get you' and I'd like to destroy it as much as possible.

I think it's difficult for everybody, and you read the person's posts made in the past, that's also a good habit.
My strategy is: first show that I understand (or at least try to understand) their struggle and feelings, and then ask what's the problem or how they are really feeling, if I can't find them in the person's posts.

Sometimes threads on this forum become like echo chambers and while I understand there is the bright side in it, especially for people who have been in hostile environment for a long time, I think you are trying to add another value to this forum: encouragement for change.
But I'm a natural-born sloth, and don't like hearing "to change for the better or not is up to you" so I say instead, "everything changes."

This is my attempt to make my posts lyrical yet logical.
How do you think?
Thanks so much for reading my long post

 

[rabid_aspie_yokai]

You seem like a very compassionate person, trying to help, not leaving your friend behind etc. I also had a relatively fine childhood, so... at least you're not alone with that.

((JUST MY OPINION)) I think that you don't "identify" with the bad guy in other people's stories, but rather have empathy that you have a hard time recognising.

 

[Logos]

Hello @Logos,
You seems to be a person who loves logic,
And you're trying to get close,
To people here, whose stories are tragic.

I've tried to debunk lies my depression tells,
But I was too emotional to be logical.
So instead I now try to be lyrical,
Like casting magic spells.

I say "it's your choice,
and you have a voice."
With all words, rhymes and reasoning I have,
I try to show them there is true love.

Why do some people choose life,
Even when their days are nothing but strife?
Because even when their heart is going to sink,
They know somebody loves them, I think.


I'm a bit late but welcome to this forum! You are aware the difference between "it will get better" and "better can be possible" and you use latter consciously, so I think you are on a good starting point.


I think offering advice or encouragement to people on this forum, even to people who asked for it, is extremely hard because most of them heard encouragement while their situation was getting worse, or they feel it's their fault. I think, we have to show how much we care about them in deeper level.

I'm bad at being purely logical, so I've posted poems on the other people's threads, in order to show someone actually cares about them. Most of people here are so fed up with empty promises and platitudes, so I want to show somebody makes some effort in an attempt to make their feelings a bit less unbearable. That's why I write my poems in rhyme, which requires at least some time. As a bonus, I incorporate their username in it, if I can.


I think it's difficult for everybody, and you read the person's posts made in the past, that's also a good habit.
My strategy is: first show that I understand (or at least try to understand) their struggle and feelings, and then ask what's the problem or how they are really feeling, if I can't find them in the person's posts.

Sometimes threads on this forum become like echo chambers and while I understand there is the bright side in it, especially for people who have been in hostile environment for a long time, I think you are trying to add another value to this forum: encouragement for change.
But I'm a natural-born sloth, and don't like hearing "to change for the better or not is up to you" so I say instead, "everything changes."

This is my attempt to make my posts lyrical yet logical.
How do you think?
Thanks so much for reading my long post

First, thank you so much for your time- my thanks is much overdue. Secondly, I'm sorry for just going silent. It's been like over 20 days??? It's very difficult for me trying to use new sites for some reason. I mean that in anxious way, not a confused way.
I do enjoy your poems, I've seen em round posts before, and they've clearly given people peace. It's awesome. And yes, I do see your attempt at making lyrical, yet logical posts. Logic and emotion can easily be intertwined, adding layers onto how we think, even create art such as poetry. I see no downside of one adding to the other and vice versa in art. You're quite attuned to emotion from what I'm seeing, it has a wonderous value,
Hopefully I'm in a good starting point, I think part of the reason I've been anxious about interacting is my tendency to absorb ways of thinking. Course it's possible to wriggle out of that but it's like you gotta be aware of that even happening to start. It may be possible that I'm scared that I'm gonna fuck up even more, but again I feel obligated and responding had been haunting me. I want to start the habit of just- exposure therapy I guess?- read people's posts, even if it's harrowing to my fragile ass

Empty promises and platitudes... It's a fascinating topic honestly. Maybe anything is if you dare look deep enough. In my oh SO impressive searchings on,,,,
The internet
I've come across the idea that the reason (or at least one reason) these empty promises, platitudes, clichés are even a thing is because maybe they had something to them once
Maybe once they had a true point
Course you cannot logic your way out of depression, but they can help shape the goals you want. (and I do NOT mean any of this in a demeaning way, I know that there's people who are hanging over the decision between life and death, not taking care of themselves for so many reasons, the want and goal to die being one of them, and it's a strong reason with lasting impacts)
But the weight of overuse, the weight of misunderstanding, misinterpreting, and all things that come with being popular dilute them into pathetic one liners, insulting premises even. Kinda like the misuse of even a single word. There's probably an obvious well known name for this phenomenon but it isn't coming to mind.
So who wants to revive that? The promises that have been abusive, telling you to carry on without any weight behind them? The words that people use when they misunderstand you? Don't understand how the platitudes look, even if they've been through a terrible life? The clichés people may use to make themselves feel better, when all you see is nothing?
I'm not sure many people want to revive any true meanings those may have had once. If they do, can they even do so properly? Is it even possible?

Speaking of, I want to dissect the one you don't like, gave an example of. "To change for the better or not is up to you."
From just thinking about it, feeling it out- it does imply something you ought to do- get better. (Ayo I'm also a sloth!) The only part giving you leeway on what you want is the latter part. It's like being told to do your homework. Being told to do your chores- it's the same spirit behind it, it's the same spirit being what you ought to do. And if you do those things, even if a part of you wanted to, it's going to be ushered out because it doesn't feel like you doing homework, It doesn't feel like you changing. It isn't to say oughts are completely bad but your wants are a strong factor into things. In my own experience, telling myself I should do something is constricting, while telling myself I may want something, is so much freer. So I guess my random advice for this particular sentence is to make it a question about what you want instead. Dunno though, what do you think about that?

Thank you for reading this.
this behemoth, this wall of runes essay.
Hope you have a good day.

You seem like a very compassionate person, trying to help, not leaving your friend behind etc. I also had a relatively fine childhood, so... at least you're not alone with that.

((JUST MY OPINION)) I think that you don't "identify" with the bad guy in other people's stories, but rather have empathy that you have a hard time recognising.

I would also like to apologize here, I can make all the excuses I want but I am sorry for just evaporating for like a month.
Thank you for your kind words. I may have my own evidence to the contrary but that doesn't erase your kindness.

Oh? Well, even though I'm not sure exactly what you mean in regards of who that empathy is for, (I am dumb) I wouldn't be surprised at all if I had immense issues with empathy. I think most or at least a good portion of my empathy is just cognitive.

Again, sorry for my absence, and thank you for taking your time to comment!

 

[LoiteringClouds]

Hello @Logos,

Thanks for your reply

First, thank you so much for your time- my thanks is much overdue. Secondly, I'm sorry for just going silent. It's been like over 20 days??? It's very difficult for me trying to use new sites for some reason. I mean that in anxious way, not a confused way.

Please don't worry, sometimes people browse SaSu but don't reply to messages they got for various reasons. And all reasons are valid

I do enjoy your poems, I've seen em round posts before, and they've clearly given people peace. It's awesome. And yes, I do see your attempt at making lyrical, yet logical posts. Logic and emotion can easily be intertwined, adding layers onto how we think, even create art such as poetry. I see no downside of one adding to the other and vice versa in art. You're quite attuned to emotion from what I'm seeing, it has a wonderous value,

Thanks so much - your words mean the world to me, because you enjoyed my poem and I'm very glad to hear that my poems are helpful.

Hopefully I'm in a good starting point, I think part of the reason I've been anxious about interacting is my tendency to absorb ways of thinking. Course it's possible to wriggle out of that but it's like you gotta be aware of that even happening to start. It may be possible that I'm scared that I'm gonna fuck up even more, but again I feel obligated and responding had been haunting me. I want to start the habit of just- exposure therapy I guess?- read people's posts, even if it's harrowing to my fragile ass

Sometimes I feel uncomfortable to read other people's post, especially when their story is too painful for me. But I believe in the power of "suffering together" - that's the literal meaning of the word compassion - so I try to respond anyway.

Sometimes I become nervous because I might be misunderstood and hurt people inadvertently.
But the fear of accidental misunderstanding won't keep me from posting because there are a lot of people here and usually an OP get multiple responses and my post is just one of them. They can simply ignore my post if they don't like it. The chances are there are people who understand OP correctly.

"A friend to all is a friend to none" - Aristotle
I'm not afraid of making enemies here - Actually one person got angry at my poem once and I apologized, but they ignored my apology. So I simply walked away from them like nothing happened. This is a forum on the internet after all. Powerful word is a double-edged sword; if you want to be helpful, you have to take risks.

I usually don't feel obligated, but sometimes I want to give a bit of love to people who made their goodbye thread, because there's no chance to do so when they're gone.

It's my self-administered exposure therapy, too.

Empty promises and platitudes... It's a fascinating topic honestly. Maybe anything is if you dare look deep enough. In my oh SO impressive searchings on,,,,
The internet
I've come across the idea that the reason (or at least one reason) these empty promises, platitudes, clichés are even a thing is because maybe they had something to them once
Maybe once they had a true point
Course you cannot logic your way out of depression, but they can help shape the goals you want. (and I do NOT mean any of this in a demeaning way, I know that there's people who are hanging over the decision between life and death, not taking care of themselves for so many reasons, the want and goal to die being one of them, and it's a strong reason with lasting impacts)
But the weight of overuse, the weight of misunderstanding, misinterpreting, and all things that come with being popular dilute them into pathetic one liners, insulting premises even. Kinda like the misuse of even a single word. There's probably an obvious well known name for this phenomenon but it isn't coming to mind.

I agree, one-liners, especially empty promises, had different connotations before, I think.
For example, I guess "it gets better" once had Christian meaning because Jesus has resurrected and love, truth and justice will finally prevail, according to the Bible and its teaching. It actually gets better.
So this phrase lose power if you have no God, Jesus or "higher power" in your context.
Sorry, I can't come up with the word which describes this phenomenon, too.

So who wants to revive that? The promises that have been abusive, telling you to carry on without any weight behind them? The words that people use when they misunderstand you? Don't understand how the platitudes look, even if they've been through a terrible life? The clichés people may use to make themselves feel better, when all you see is nothing?
I'm not sure many people want to revive any true meanings those may have had once. If they do, can they even do so properly? Is it even possible?

I think some people make empty promises and throw platitudes and cliché when they are annoyed or indifferent. They know these phrases won't make them look like cold people because the phrase is popular and in most cases, it's well intentioned.
But I think they would say this phrase instead, if they are sincere:
"I don't want to help you."

Do you have any example of a platitude and it's original meaning? (Guessing is OK.)

Speaking of, I want to dissect the one you don't like, gave an example of. "To change for the better or not is up to you."
From just thinking about it, feeling it out- it does imply something you ought to do- get better. (Ayo I'm also a sloth!) The only part giving you leeway on what you want is the latter part. It's like being told to do your homework. Being told to do your chores- it's the same spirit behind it, it's the same spirit being what you ought to do. And if you do those things, even if a part of you wanted to, it's going to be ushered out because it doesn't feel like you doing homework, It doesn't feel like you changing. It isn't to say oughts are completely bad but your wants are a strong factor into things. In my own experience, telling myself I should do something is constricting, while telling myself I may want something, is so much freer. So I guess my random advice for this particular sentence is to make it a question about what you want instead. Dunno though, what do you think about that?

Yes, I think a connotation of this sentence is "If you fail to get better, it means you are not working hard enough and it's your fault." So this sentence has devastating impact on depressed people. They've blamed themselves a lot and it rubs salt into their wounds. So, some people use it intentionally as "tough love" or more sinister ones do as a part of gaslighting.

I agree that "want to" is much freer than "ought to." So the alternative to the sentences would be "If you really want to change for the better you can achieve that."
I'm in relatively stable condition right now and I have a lot of things I want to do, so I don't find the sentence above toxic, but when I'm depressed, I don't want to do anything. In my experience, this was particularly devastating when I was looking for a job. I simply don't want to keep going. I don't want to make any effort anymore. So:

I tried to hang myself.

I somehow got a job (I won't elaborate) and my life was saved. Since then, I've lost all confidence when it comes to a job or work. I've been told I'm not good enough countless times by my boss, but I no longer care.

Thank you for reading this.
this behemoth, this wall of runes essay.
Hope you have a good day.

Thank you for posting this wall of runes
I enjoyed it a lot! And thanks so much for reading