Method My ctb by CO process

[Artemisia]

Yesterday I was, once again, told there's no hope of anything resembling a normal, pain free life for me. So, I got home and started working on my process to end this misery. My chosen method is chemically produced CO and I intend to share how it goes. It may take weeks until I finally go through with it but I'd like to share what I learn along the way.

So, to make CO it takes formic and sulphuric acids. I ordered formic acid online without any incident. Formic acid at 85% is enough and sold freely to treat beehives against mites. Although at that concentration it's said not to degrade, it's better to keep it in the fridge.

I couldn't get pure or at least 90+% sulphuric acid. However, could get, without much trouble, battery acid, which is 37% acid and the rest is water. However, refining it isn't all that difficult. You see, SA has a very high ebulition point. So what do you do? You just have to boil it! I did it in a Pyrex bowl, because concentrated SA eats away almost everything, including inox. I actually left it unattended for too long and got a cloud of SA in the kitchen, but doesn't really matter at this point (I live alone and who gets the house gets to fix the kitchen how they want). The final result is concentrated SA at about 90%. You know it's there when it eats away a paper towel leaving only a tiny bit of black residue. From what I read, 90+ should be enough, but since I know a bit of chemistry and it's not that difficult, it's better to be safe than sorry. I ordered a simple distillation kit and it should arrive soon. I'll share how the next step goes then.

This is my 90% SA, looking nice and yelowy!

 

[frost_]

Thank you for making this thread, I also feel like high concentration Co is the most peaceful, at least according to what I've read.

First, I was thinking about a generator, but not only are the exhaust fumes hard to breathe in, it's loud and will continuously run electricity and generate more CO after death which is a fire danger to surrounding property.

Charcoal thing seems a bit too manual and imprecise, it's possible but can vary based on what you buy, how you stack it and light it.

Chemical seems the most direct.

Are you using the gulps method? I didn't read far enough, not sure how to get rid of the water portion that gets generated in the reaction.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

I think even lower concentration of sulfuric acid should work.

Any setup needs to be tested to see what actual concentration of co is achieved

Needs to be tested with very small a few ml amounts outside. like in a small reaction chamber and with the tpi 707 meter or another one if that is too expensive. Then do the math to extrapolate to the larger suicide chamber.

For example if can get co if 2% In. A 1 cubic meter container. Then you would need 100x for a 100 cubic meter chamber

 

[Artemisia]

Thank you for making this thread, I also feel like high concentration Co is the most peaceful, at least according to what I've read.

First, I was thinking about a generator, but not only are the exhaust fumes hard to breathe in, it's loud and will continuously run electricity and generate more CO after death which is a fire danger to surrounding property.

Charcoal thing seems a bit too manual and imprecise, it's possible but can vary based on what you buy, how you stack it and light it.

Chemical seems the most direct.

Are you using the gulps method? I didn't read far enough, not sure how to get rid of the water portion that gets generated in the reaction.

All those years studying chemistry turned out to be useful after all! I feel the same way, generators are too messy and properly lightig all that charcoal just seems like too much trouble and not enough guarantee that it'll work. Getting a CO analyzer that can read 10000 ppm turned out an extremely difficult quest for me, so at least this way I can estimate how much CO is produced.

Yes, I intend to use the gulps method, although I'm a bit worried that oxygen masks have holes to let the CO2, we produce when breathing, out. Won't it dilute the CO somewhat? Probably not significatively, but I'm the kind who always would rather be safe than sorry. I like being prepared.

You don't have to get rid of the generated water, it's part of the process. But it's also why you have to start with the highest possible concentration of SA.

I think even lower concentration of sulfuric acid should work.

Any setup needs to be tested to see what actual concentration of co is achieved

Needs to be tested with very small a few ml amounts outside. like in a small reaction chamber and with the tpi 707 meter or another one if that is too expensive. Then do the math to extrapolate to the larger suicide chamber.

For example if can get co if 2% In. A 1 cubic meter container. Then you would need 100x for a 100 cubic meter chamber

It could work at a lower concentration, but not as well. This is the reaction:

HCOOH + H2SO4 -> CO + H2SO4.H2O

It works because the SA (H2SO4) dehydrates de formic acid, stealing 2 hydrogens and 1 oxygen to make water for itself! If there's already a lot of water in the solution, the SA will bind to those free molecules of water instead of breaking down the FA.

The gulps system uses a closed system and an oxygen mask to deliver directly to the nose and mouth. I haven't fully decided yet if I'll use that or try to fill a small bathroom. Need to do some math for that.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

All those years studying chemistry turned out to be useful after all! I feel the same way, generators are too messy and properly lightig all that charcoal just seems like too much trouble and not enough guarantee that it'll work. Getting a CO analyzer that can read 10000 ppm turned out an extremely difficult quest for me, so at least this way I can estimate how much CO is produced.

Yes, I intend to use the gulps method, although I'm a bit worried that oxygen masks have holes to let the CO2, we produce when breathing, out. Won't it dilute the CO somewhat? Probably not significatively, but I'm the kind who always would rather be safe than sorry. I like being prepared.

You don't have to get rid of the generated water, it's part of the process. But it's also why you have to start with the highest possible concentration of SA.

It could work at a lower concentration, but not as well. This is the reaction:

HCOOH + H2SO4 -> CO + H2SO4.H2O

It works because the SA (H2SO4) dehydrates de formic acid, stealing 2 hydrogens and 1 oxygen to make water for itself! If there's already a lot of water in the solution, the SA will bind to those free molecules of water instead of breaking down the SA.

The gulps system uses a closed system and an oxygen mask to deliver directly to the nose and mouth. I haven't fully decided yet if I'll use that or try to fill a small bathroom. Need to do some math for that.

ok i got methods mixed up too many methods i got going . i need to narrow focus. i can find 98% sulfuric and 95% formic : that should be enough.

must test small amount of acids in small container then extrapolate to larger container doing math. must test with tpi 707 or other meter. what is the smallest amount of acids you can test ?

 

[Artemisia]

ok i got methods mixed up too many methods i got going . i need to narrow focus. i can find 98% sulfuric and 95% formic : that should be enough.

must test small amount of acids in small container then extrapolate to larger container doing math. must test with tpi 707 or other meter. what is the smallest amount of acids you can test ?

Lucky you! I'm actually envious, as I have to refine my SA and there's not much I can do about my 85% FA.

I don't think there's a smallest amount possible, the reaction works in the same proportions no matter the amounts used. Just keep in mind that you need at least twice as much in volume of SA than FA. I've shared the stoichiometry of the reaction in another post. Let me try to find it.

This is the equation, already balanced:
CH2O2 + H2SO4 = CO + H2SO4.H2O
1 mole of formic acid + 1 mole of sulfuric acid = 1 mole of carbon monoxide + 1 mole hydrated sulfuric acid

CH2O2
molecular weight =46,03 grs/mol
density = 1,22 grs/cm3

H2SO4
molecular weight = 98,079 grs/mol
density = 1,8356 grs/cm3

CO
molecular weight = 28,01 grs/mol
density = 0,00125 grs/cm3

We don't care about the H2SO4.H2O!

The GULPS method consists of using 50 ml (50 cm3) of formic acid and 250 ml (250 cm3) of sulfuric acid. I was curious, how much CO does it really produce? (Keep in mind that without heat or agitation the reaction my not be complete)

50 ml/cm3 of CH2O2 weight 61 grs (1,22 grs x 50), which is 1,325 mole (61 grs / 46,03)
250 ml/cm3 of H2SO4 weight 458,9 grs (1,8356 grs x 250), which is 4,679 mole

This means we have an excess of sulfuric acid. About 1/3 would be enough to react with all the formic acid, but I guess this is to make sure there's enough and then some more.

How much CO does it produce then? The formic acid is therefore the limitation, from 1 mole of CH2O2 we get 1 mole of CO. From 50 ml, which are 1,325 moles, we'll get the same 1,325 moles of CO (if all the formic acid reacts, which may not happen due to the conditions in which the reaction happens). And how much is that? 1,325 moles of CO are 37,113 grs (1,325 x 28,01 grs) or 29690,4 cm3 (37,113 grs / 0,00125). That's 29,69 liters!!!

From 250 ml + 50 ml you can get 29,69 liters of CO! Now I understand why it's so effective!! I'm sincerely impressed!

Just to take it one step further, considering we want at least 10000 ppm, meaning 1% of CO in the air, the amount of CO produced is enough for 2969 liters of air or 2,969 m3! So, theoretically, you don't even need a mask, you could let the reaction happen inside a small car and quickly get in and it'd most likely still work.

 

[frost_]

All those years studying chemistry turned out to be useful after all! I feel the same way, generators are too messy and properly lightig all that charcoal just seems like too much trouble and not enough guarantee that it'll work. Getting a CO analyzer that can read 10000 ppm turned out an extremely difficult quest for me, so at least this way I can estimate how much CO is produced.

Yes, I intend to use the gulps method, although I'm a bit worried that oxygen masks have holes to let the CO2, we produce when breathing, out. Won't it dilute the CO somewhat? Probably not significatively, but I'm the kind who always would rather be safe than sorry. I like being prepared.

You don't have to get rid of the generated water, it's part of the process. But it's also why you have to start with the highest possible concentration of SA.

It could work at a lower concentration, but not as well. This is the reaction:

HCOOH + H2SO4 -> CO + H2SO4.H2O

It works because the SA (H2SO4) dehydrates de formic acid, stealing 2 hydrogens and 1 oxygen to make water for itself! If there's already a lot of water in the solution, the SA will bind to those free molecules of water instead of breaking down the FA.

The gulps system uses a closed system and an oxygen mask to deliver directly to the nose and mouth. I haven't fully decided yet if I'll use that or try to fill a small bathroom. Need to do some math for that.

You mentioned there was difficulty purchasing a 10,000ppm CO analyzer. Was it more than the cost? Did some places turn you down or sell only to businesses?

 

[Artemisia]

You mentioned there was difficulty purchasing a 10,000ppm CO analyzer. Was it more than the cost? Did some places turn you down or sell only to businesses?

The analysers I found were expensive, but worse than that, they're attachments to even much more expensive and complex systems. Let's just say that at the moment I don't have the energy to learn how to work with something like that. And yes, the sites I found only sell to companies, as I guess no one imagines that a private person could have any use for them. Keep in mind I'm European, from what I've read here, Americans seem to have it easier, although I don't know by how much.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

The analysers I found were expensive, but worse than that, they're attachments to even much more expensive and complex systems. Let's just say that at the moment I don't have the energy to learn how to work with something like that. And yes, the sites I found only sell to companies, as I guess no one imagines that a private person could have any use for them. Keep in mind I'm European, from what I've read here, Americans seem to have it easier, although I don't know by how much.

Says international shipping and has the countries listed

TPI 707 Carbon Monoxide Analyzer, 0 to 10,000 ppm

TPI 707 Carbon Monoxide Analyzer, 0 to 10,000 ppm. Great savings PLUS Free Shipping when you buy now from GlobalTestSupply.com.

www.globaltestsupply.com

TPI 707 Carbon Monoxide Analyzer, 0 to 10,000 ppm

TPI 707 Carbon Monoxide Analyzer, 0 to 10,000 ppm. Great savings PLUS Free Shipping when you buy now from ITM.com. In stock, ships same or next day.

www.itm.com

 

[Artemisia]

Says international shipping and has the countries listed

TPI 707 Carbon Monoxide Analyzer, 0 to 10,000 ppm

TPI 707 Carbon Monoxide Analyzer, 0 to 10,000 ppm. Great savings PLUS Free Shipping when you buy now from GlobalTestSupply.com.

www.globaltestsupply.com

TPI 707 Carbon Monoxide Analyzer, 0 to 10,000 ppm

TPI 707 Carbon Monoxide Analyzer, 0 to 10,000 ppm. Great savings PLUS Free Shipping when you buy now from ITM.com. In stock, ships same or next day.

www.itm.com

Thank you so much! That's a great find!

 

[ham and potatoes]

My chosen method is chemically produced CO and I intend to share how it goes. It may take weeks until I finally go through with it but I'd like to share what I learn along the way.

So, to make CO it takes formic and sulphuric acids.

Out of curiosity, wouldn't that reaction smell unbearable?
I dropped a lead acid battery on gravel by accident years ago, and the fumes that came off of that were awful.

 

[Artemisia]

Out of curiosity, wouldn't that reaction smell unbearable?
I dropped a lead acid battery on gravel by accident years ago, and the fumes that came off of that were awful.

I had a cloud of SA in the kitchen and I didn't find the smell to be bad, irritating to eyes and respiratory system yes, but not fowl.

But this process uses a washing chamber to remove smell and fumes, mostly FA fumes which are also very irritating. Basically, the CO is water filtered to make sure what we get is pure CO.

This is the setup (from the PPH)

 

[frost_]

I had a cloud of SA in the kitchen and I didn't find the smell to be bad, irritating to eyes and respiratory system yes, but not fowl.

But this process uses a washing chamber to remove smell and fumes, mostly FA fumes which are also very irritating. Basically, the CO is water filtered to make sure what we get is pure CO.

This is the setup (from the PPH)
View attachment 143655

Do you think you will test the system without a mask? A mask sounds like extra variables, both if the mask comes off during unconsciousness, and also the CO2 being breathed back out. I wonder if the gas will "rise up" enough on it's own to fill a small closet (using larger proportions).

Also, do you need to stir or apply heat to make the reaction go faster?

 

[Artemisia]

Do you think you will test the system without a mask? A mask sounds like extra variables, both if the mask comes off during unconsciousness, and also the CO2 being breathed back out. I wonder if the gas will "rise up" enough on it's own to fill a small closet (using larger proportions).

Also, do you need to stir or apply heat to make the reaction go faster?

I intended to, but I'm getting so physically weak I don't know if I'll have the energy to do it. At this point I just want to end things as fast as possible... unfortunately there is that chance that it won't turn out as well as possible.
If enough reagents are used it definitely should work in filling a small closet, bathroom or even a car. CO is slightly lighter than air, so it'll always rise.
Stirring is always a good idea! I had considered putting the glass jar with the reagents in a hot water bath, but I'm not sure I'll have the energy to try that out. See if it'd make a difference, for better or worse (it may actually generate too much heat). The reaction is exothermal, so it kind of perpetuates itself. As long as there are reagents they should be nice and warm and keep reacting on their own.

 

[frost_]

You probably already read this @Artemisia, but I was searching for older threads and found this account: https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/carbon-monoxide-using-sulphuric-acid.14766/#post-286655

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

I intended to, but I'm getting so physically weak I don't know if I'll have the energy to do it. At this point I just want to end things as fast as possible... unfortunately there is that chance that it won't turn out as well as possible.
If enough reagents are used it definitely should work in filling a small closet, bathroom or even a car. CO is slightly lighter than air, so it'll always rise.
Stirring is always a good idea! I had considered putting the glass jar with the reagents in a hot water bath, but I'm not sure I'll have the energy to try that out. See if it'd make a difference, for better or worse (it may actually generate too much heat). The reaction is exothermal, so it kind of perpetuates itself. As long as there are reagents they should be nice and warm and keep reacting on their own.

Imo must test co amount produced. Then use the 10x rule. If you can 10x , 10 times something , do it imo. If you can't 10x , then 5x

For example if the tests and calculations show 200 ml formic acid would produce 2% co in a small room , multiply by 10 to 2 liters. This is for everything , the stakes couldn't be higher. nothing must be left to chance

 

[RadiantNumber]

Yesterday I was, once again, told there's no hope of anything resembling a normal, pain free life for me. So, I got home and started working on my process to end this misery. My chosen method is chemically produced CO and I intend to share how it goes. It may take weeks until I finally go through with it but I'd like to share what I learn along the way.

So, to make CO it takes formic and sulphuric acids. I ordered formic acid online without any incident. Formic acid at 85% is enough and sold freely to treat beehives against mites. Although at that concentration it's said not to degrade, it's better to keep it in the fridge.

I couldn't get pure or at least 90+% sulphuric acid. However, could get, without much trouble, battery acid, which is 37% acid and the rest is water. However, refining it isn't all that difficult. You see, SA has a very high ebulition point. So what do you do? You just have to boil it! I did it in a Pyrex bowl, because concentrated SA eats away almost everything, including inox. I actually left it unattended for too long and got a cloud of SA in the kitchen, but doesn't really matter at this point (I live alone and who gets the house gets to fix the kitchen how they want). The final result is concentrated SA at about 90%. You know it's there when it eats away a paper towel leaving only a tiny bit of black residue. From what I read, 90+ should be enough, but since I know a bit of chemistry and it's not that difficult, it's better to be safe than sorry. I ordered a simple distillation kit and it should arrive soon. I'll share how the next step goes then.

This is my 90% SA, looking nice and yelowy!

View attachment 143508

Is there method to produce it without buying things like blocking vents in my gas stove?

 

[Artemisia]

You probably already read this @Artemisia, but I was searching for older threads and found this account: https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/carbon-monoxide-using-sulphuric-acid.14766/#post-286655

Thanks for the link, I actually hadn't read that one. That's why testing is important, we have to learn from each other and then share what we've learned. I've ordered some more SA so that I can have enough to do so experiments. Let's see how it goes!

Is there method to produce it without buying things like blocking vents in my gas stove?

Theoretically yes, but it's probably even more unreliable than what I'll be testing. Both butane and propane will burn with a nice blue flame if they have enough oxygen, if the flame is yellow it means there isn't enough O2 and CO is most likely being produced. I've achieved some success by simply slightly unaligning the burners, but have no idea how much CO it was actually producing, I very much doubt it was even remotely near enough to what we want, but it definitely can be done. There must be some way to open the burner and not let the gas come in contact with enough O2, but I haven't looked into it.
Found this for a starter.