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U

UsernameI

New Member
Dec 29, 2024
3
Murder

I'm starting to get very scared. A little ago I made an account here because I had some distressing thoughts bothering me, some regarding the inevitability of my suicide and some regarding my history and how there were some things foretold like how i would forget a lot of things about myself or how i might "erode", which after a year it came to me that maybe that meant increasing dissociation and more forgetting myself, but...
that is not what has drawn me to write this. about four days ago i woke up early (i had set an alarm, this is completely normal); and i had a panic attack for about three hours and in the midst of that i remember some thoughts that still terrify me: "i need to kill myself before i kill anyone else" was among them, a recent development. I remember thinking how it is starting to feel justified and...
i'm scared. this thought keeps coming back, and... i understand my case a little. i've been feeling those around me aren't "as real" and that i'm the only one that really feels, among many reasons a new one was relatively recent, regarding how one time i was feeling suicidal and thinking about setting a little time aside <i>in an exam</i> to writing down and polishing my plans, those around me were oddly unbothered by it even though we weren't "distant", quite close, actually. and how one that interestingly is quite well-versed in these topic (though i have recently come to realize: person knows mostly neurology and not psychology) did try momentarily reaching out, but person in question is probably neither well-equipped nor quite aware of what is on hand.
and also, of course, given that i grew up basically isolated, i think i can see how this all could play a role in --derealization aside-- dehumanization, a stage in stanton's model for stages of genocide. along with that, on techniques of neutralization, i can understand how denial of responsibility, injury, victim, victimization, and possibly appeal to good character could... place me a little more at risk of committing murder.
i'm scared. it is clear to all those around me that violence doesn't at all fit my character and that i remember how i used to have the stance of inherent worth of human life and how that implies anyone could deserve a second chance; but... this all is happening so fast... i wasn't this, i can't be this, i can't do this... why does it keep haunting me?
 
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BeansOfRequirement

BeansOfRequirement

Behind the guilt was compassion
Jan 26, 2021
5,758
Sorry that you're experiencing this. Are you in contact with any type of mental health worker/therapist/councelor at the moment?
 
U

UsernameI

New Member
Dec 29, 2024
3
Sorry that you're experiencing this. Are you in contact with any type of mental health worker/therapist/councelor at the moment?
I do not have access to anyone. I used to contact Samaritans by email but eventually it seemed my problems were "too complex"* for them.
*there is an email they sent literally saying this, and another one saying they're there as a listening service and not a helping service; the two said they aren't professionals and they can't help, but I do not as of yet have access to professionals. This all was about three months ago and after about a month and half I stopped contacting them.
 
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H

Hvergelmir

Specialist
May 5, 2024
313
It doesn't sound like you associate any pleasure or excitement with murder. It also doesn't sound like you're prone to violent anger.
As long as that remains true, I think the risk is very small.

Take it for what it is - speculations from a stranger on the Internet - but I think you're just afraid of going insane, and extrapolates the worst possible consequence of that.
You seem to lack both motivation and incentive to kill anyone.

Stanton's model is for explaining the developments leading towards genocide.
The characteristics of dehumanization according to your source is:
"One group denies the humanity of the other group. Members of it are equated with animals, vermin, insects, excrement or diseases."
It's a good description of how extremist movements become dangerous, but I don't think your writing reflects that. You don't seem to consider murder the inevitable solution to anything.

Definitely schedule an appointment with a professional, though. You're obviously concerned about your own mental state.
 
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M

MyTimeIsUp

Perhaps I'll be important when I'm long gone?
Feb 27, 2024
501
Everyone has fucked up thoughts, it doesn't make you a bad person, it's about whether or not you act on it. I have always been a good person, and would never hurt anyone but..

I thought I was going to become a serial killer at one point, even though I never hated anyone, just a particular sex based on my experiences with them. I had all sorts of fucked up murderous fantasies, amongst other fucked up shit. I don't have them anymore. Ever. It was *just* thoughts, and now those thoughts are completely gone. I guarantee everyone that has been through a shit ton of trauma, especially when very young, has these thoughts. You're definitely not alone there.

It's important not to feed into the thoughts, try to distract yourself so they are less intense. Even for a few minutes a time, watch TV, go for a walk, make yourself a drink of coffee/tea/juice, read a book. Anything to distract your mind. Slowly build it up to longer periods of time and learning how to ignore the thoughts - and the most important: understand why you have them, so you can grow as a person, understand yourself and move on from whatever has caused you to think this way in the first place.

Once you have had help from professionals, a good therapist can work wonders, or look at some self help online for negative thoughts, it will help you a lot.

If I look back at myself, I realise I was just a very broken person, because of all the trauma I had suffered, a lot of trauma, and repeated trauma. I have spent a lot of time working on myself, and I had forgotten about all the crazy thoughts I had, because I'm no longer that person. I honestly thought I'd always be that way, or that I'd always be fucked up, *that* fucked up, well, I was wrong.

I have never hurt anyone nor would I ever. I was (still am) a very traumatised person, but I promise you can overcome this, if you allow yourself to. Things can get better.

After a long time of helping myself, I can honestly say things are looking a lot better than ever. Not everyone needs a therapist, sometimes we can overcome things without one, I know I have (not everything), but it depends on you as a person and how you deal with things. There's no harm in seeing a therapist and relying on them for emotional support before you can rely on yourself, it's what they are there for. But you have to be able to help yourself too or therapy won't work. Self help is so important

Try not to beat yourself up, you're not a bad person, it's merely thoughts, nothing else. And these thoughts can pass, if you let them. Remember, focusing on that shit (and anything like that) will only make it more intense and prominent, and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy in the end.

Everything is about learning to manage better, absolutely everything. If you can teach yourself that (or with a therapists help, whichever), you can overcome anything life throws at you.

Best of luck with it
 
U

UsernameI

New Member
Dec 29, 2024
3
It doesn't sound like you associate any pleasure or excitement with murder. It also doesn't sound like you're prone to violent anger.
As long as that remains true, I think the risk is very small.

Take it for what it is - speculations from a stranger on the Internet - but I think you're just afraid of going insane, and extrapolates the worst possible consequence of that.
You seem to lack both motivation and incentive to kill anyone.

I do happen to have had numerous instances of believing I am going/have gone insane but I have slowly become accustomed to it, it's all become so familiar as it's usually cycling through old and familiar feelings or thoughts; so it's really no longer as disturbing to me as it used to be*. And I may in fact, exaggerate things in my mind and then mistake my own mental constructs for my perception and get tangled between reality and unreality, but it doesn't bother me too much and funnily I remember how I wanted to document and process these into a coherent and meaningful piece, to make sense of all of this. Plus, I should've added before, I may tend to have tunnel vision and I may think feel the current state will continue for a while, furthermore making me distressed in times of distress, but... wouldn't more distress mean I would get over all of it all and simply become accustomed to it sooner? (doesn't EMDR have a somewhat similar basis?)

*maybe about only two or three months ago it started to suddenly scare me so much to think that I have turned suicidal and that I may be getting closer to taking action, but now I feel more nonchalant and indifferent to it; maybe I've come at terms and am in peace, or maybe I'm dissociated and unaware and have repressed and bottled it up.

Stanton's model is for explaining the developments leading towards genocide.
The characteristics of dehumanization according to your source is:
"One group denies the humanity of the other group. Members of it are equated with animals, vermin, insects, excrement or diseases."
It's a good description of how extremist movements become dangerous, but I don't think your writing reflects that. You don't seem to consider murder the inevitable solution to anything.

I understand that it may be a model designed for something different, but I think I could say at least some of moral behavior is related to emotions (empathy) and how this would mean the first steps towards actions contrary to human nature could be to see the other as devoid of life and humanity so that empathy would be less effective in stopping one from doing things one normally wouldn't.

Definitely schedule an appointment with a professional, though. You're obviously concerned about your own mental state.

These feelings are fleeting by nature and this means I may not necessarily be one who would write that main post (state-dependent memory could be mentioned here [1], as well as multiplicity or plurality [1] [2], and maybe dissonant schemas and cognitive dissonance as well. plus, the fact that mood and emotions affect cognition and "rationality". Nonetheless, I am still aware that I should contact a professional when I get a chance.

PS. I may overuse and abuse jargon; please excuse me if I my words make little sense or if I misapply concepts and terms in inappropriate cases. I am not very used to communicating to other people so I may focus more on wording and saying my point in a way that makes to me myself which may not necessarily be similar to how another would put it. If I make things more complex than they are, maybe I myself would benefit from having it be simpler instead.
Everyone has fucked up thoughts, it doesn't make you a bad person, it's about whether or not you act on it. I have always been a good person, and would never hurt anyone but..

I thought I was going to become a serial killer at one point, even though I never hated anyone, just a particular sex based on my experiences with them. I had all sorts of fucked up murderous fantasies, amongst other fucked up shit. I don't have them anymore. Ever. It was *just* thoughts, and now those thoughts are completely gone. I guarantee everyone that has been through a shit ton of trauma, especially when very young, has these thoughts. You're definitely not alone there.

I see how I can abuse jargon and meaningful concepts to dismiss the emotional aspect of what I'm experiencing, abstract it away from myself and use "reason" that is sound to myself and the misunderstood concepts clouding my judgement to "clearly see" what there is, unaware that as start to "think" more I am surrendering more of myself to irrationality and how I can easily get away with making unfalsifiable claims and believing them as I slowly get away from the literal, the outside world, the raw data, to "process" (or maybe "corrupt") it with this faulty mind I bear that I have had a hand in raising.*

*i'm not very certain if this makes any sense at all. i don't know where i slowly drifted to as i continued onward, though i think this may be partially thought of before and not entirely written by my own "self" and instead written from "memory", recalling previously thought thoughts rather than actually thinking during writing. sorry, i didn't fully intend this to happen! :))

It's important not to feed into the thoughts, try to distract yourself so they are less intense. Even for a few minutes a time, watch TV, go for a walk, make yourself a drink of coffee/tea/juice, read a book. Anything to distract your mind. Slowly build it up to longer periods of time and learning how to ignore the thoughts - and the most important: understand why you have them, so you can grow as a person, understand yourself and move on from whatever has caused you to think this way in the first place.

I understand what you mean by saying I shouldn't feed into them too much (I may be distant from the experience. I may not be taking it as seriously as I was as of making this post), but I'm not too certain if suppressing them would be very viable in the long-term; I think instead it may help to --if possible-- calmly approach and digest what has happened and what is happening (the details I had put and the links all were connections made overtime, though over a short time; nonetheless made out to be quite more complex than what it seemed to me at the very first.)
But... at the same time I find it interesting that I'm apparently firmly advocating for processing
rather than repressing, I can remember thinking I'm not ready, I can't go alone, or how I have oddly become more forgetful of myself and my own life, and how I may have lost some touch my past*
*well... time passes and that means I would naturally have less of a tendency to focus on my more distant past as... it literally is becoming more distant over time; in short I know have more past than my past self and the past my past self was processing is know more temporally away from me; but part of me refuses to accept that time has passed and believes I must have lost awareness of it; and it certainly doesn't help that I remember a few times noting myself of "pragmatic denial" as I had written, which meant that if I can manage to fully deny it and not run into problems (i mean contradictions, not emotional difficulties!) then that means the data wasn't relevant at all and I haven't truly lost anything important; but if it was relevant then it could not be forgotten as more and more statements would appear to depend on it. (in short it's almost as if we're connecting related statements to then delete any statement that doesn't bear connections as this disconnection would mean unfalsifiability of the claim)

Once you have had help from professionals, a good therapist can work wonders, or look at some self help online for negative thoughts, it will help you a lot.

If I look back at myself, I realise I was just a very broken person, because of all the trauma I had suffered, a lot of trauma, and repeated trauma. I have spent a lot of time working on myself, and I had forgotten about all the crazy thoughts I had, because I'm no longer that person. I honestly thought I'd always be that way, or that I'd always be fucked up, *that* fucked up, well, I was wrong.

I think I could very well raise the question of how we define progress --not to ask what we're progressing towards-- but to set milestones and to measure and track performance. Given that this is a long-term project, I think it's best if it could be split to smaller projects which then we can track progress on.

I have never hurt anyone nor would I ever. I was (still am) a very traumatised person, but I promise you can overcome this, if you allow yourself to. Things can get better.

Very well, but the road to recovery looks different for each person and it could help to know how much I'm the right track and if and how my actions may oppose or slow down progress.

After a long time of helping myself, I can honestly say things are looking a lot better than ever. Not everyone needs a therapist, sometimes we can overcome things without one, I know I have (not everything), but it depends on you as a person and how you deal with things. There's no harm in seeing a therapist and relying on them for emotional support before you can rely on yourself, it's what they are there for. But you have to be able to help yourself too or therapy won't work. Self help is so important

We can yet again raise a question of "how": what progress is defined by and what steps towards progress look like; if there's anything that's hindering or reversing progress or if there are things that should be done differently...

Try not to beat yourself up, you're not a bad person, it's merely thoughts, nothing else. And these thoughts can pass, if you let them. Remember, focusing on that shit (and anything like that) will only make it more intense and prominent, and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy in the end.

Everything is about learning to manage better, absolutely everything. If you can teach yourself that (or with a therapists help, whichever), you can overcome anything life throws at you.

Best of luck with it

:heart:
 
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H

Hvergelmir

Specialist
May 5, 2024
313
I may overuse and abuse jargon [...] If I make things more complex than they are, maybe I myself would benefit from having it be simpler instead.
Things are near-infinitely complex. The more complex models you use, the more accurately you can describe things.
With increased complexity comes increased risk of getting things wrong, though.

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." - A. Einstein

You're doing a great job with sources (keep that up), but most people will not have the time and energy to properly study them. A professional would have knowledge about the models and concepts you're referring to, and the experience to know which ones are useful for the given context.
Actually I think it might be a good idea to mail your posts, including sources to whatever professional you end up contacting.
 

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