Venting MLMs and pyramid schemes

[Deleted member 19654]

I recently received a long text from an old acquaintance acting like we used to be great friends, telling me we need to catch up before asking if I was interested in learning more about a 'fantastic business opportunity'. I'm not interested in buying your shitty products and I'm also not interested in losing money thinking I'm the CEO of my own business.

I hate how they target vulnerable people in difficult financial situations by convincing them that they will be able to make money when in reality they could potentially end up in debt. And don't get me started on the way these 'entrepreneurs/boss babes' try to sell their products. Claiming that their poop teas will help you lose so much weight in a matter of weeks, how their essential oils will cure your anxiety/depression/cancer etc.

Anyone else out there fed up with people like this?

 

[Leech]

Unfortunately, the people who try to rope people into this kinda stuff are just as much prey as they are predators. A vast majority of them don't see the bigger picture, and the fact that only a very small percentage of them will make it further up the ladder and an even smaller portion of those people will move up even higher. MLMs prey on people who are dumb, naive and/or hopeless. The real devil is the person who orchestrates the whole thing.


There's a lot of documentaries on YT about MLMs that are very interesting. A lot of them center around ex-members, and kinda shed light on how it really is like to be a entrepreneur / boss baby / whatever.

 

[TotallyIsolated]

I think most people go into MLM schemes in the full knowledge that its a scam, but subscribe to the view that theres always a 'bigger sucker' out there and that THEY'LL get rich. It works because they see themselves as predators!

Also fear of missing out can be a motivator for people joining these schemes.

 

[Lorntroubles]

I remember when I tried to tell this chick that her selling cheap jewelry by purchasing a kit was a gimmick. I tried to look out for her because it didn't feel right to me people getting roped in. I told her it was a MLM and a scam and her response was to tell me to stop messaging her. Got pissed off and told her hope she keeps getting scammed then, dumb b**** you don't have a "business". Don't know why she's so defensive when I was just looking out, wow.

Funny the acquaintance hits you up because they need something.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

MLMs operate like cults. I had a friend who was in an MLM (Avocare) as well as Landmark, which is very very cultish, and she never stopped trying to pitch me for either of them, she'd just take breaks and start all over again. She was one of my best friends, I had been there for her through all of her huge shit, but when I needed support for my shit, she dumped me because I wouldn't join Landmark to learn their techniques.


@Lorntroubles, buddy, if someone who was looking out for me also called me a dumb bitch, I'd disconnect from them and look out for myself. She got defensive, but so did you, and aggressively so.

 

[Lorntroubles]

MLMs operate like cults. I had a friend who was in an MLM (Avocare) as well as Landmark, which is very very cultish, and she never stopped trying to pitch me for either of them, she'd just take breaks and start all over again. She was one of my best friends, I had been there for her through all of her huge shit, but when I needed support for my shit, she dumped me because I wouldn't join Landmark to learn their techniques.


@Lorntroubles, buddy, if someone who was looking out for me also called me a dumb bitch, I'd disconnect from them and look out for myself. She got defensive, but so did you, and aggressively so.

That was after she got defensive then I said it. After that, I blocked her because I didn't have time for it. I didn't call her one beforehand. We didn't have such a friendship for her to tell me to stop messaging her after I warned her about a MLM. It was a bit much. Nowadays, I avoid those in MLM's. Their products are shitty anyways.

 

[Deleted member 19654]

You're right in comparing it to a cult. People are either brainwashed or in complete denial. In the same way as it is in a cult, people end up being isolated because their family and friends can see through the bullshit but they can't.

Part of me does feel some sympathy for people stuck in these MLMs but at the same time, after seeing the way they target people and their sales tactics, I don't always feel sorry for them. But the real devil is definitely the actual CEO.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

You're right in comparing it to a cult. People are either brainwashed or in complete denial. In the same way as it is in a cult, people end up being isolated because their family and friends can see through the bullshit but they can't.

Part of me does feel some sympathy for people stuck in these MLMs but at the same time, after seeing the way they target people and their sales tactics, I don't always feel sorry for them. But the real devil is definitely the actual CEO.

MLMs have been exposed for using cult indoctrination and maintenance techniques. There's a well-known weight loss supplement one that was exposed but they're still going. Amway is another that is definitely a cult. I'm sad for the people who get caught up in them, but their behaviors are irritating, too, and they don't seem to see it. My friend who was in Landmark really struggled with the organization, but she stayed with them in spite of the abuse because she also got benefit from it, as with any abuser, because there are always little rewards to keep victims committed. She would have to volunteer a lot of time to cold call people to join as part of moving up in the organization and become a leader, and she rebelled against it and would call me and just fuck off, but then at the end of the calls she'd try yet again to recruit me. As I said before, she dumped me over not joining. The groups do that to isolate as well, because not only are members isolated because people get sick of them, but they themselves are encouraged to do all they can to pressure friends and family to buy or join, and if they keep hearing no, I think that sets up a natural block between people. Who wants to be close to someone who keeps saying no and rejecting them? And who wants to keep saying no? Either person has to cave in or get space, sometimes permanent. The organizations pressure the members, and they pass it on.

 

[Deleted member 19654]

I'm sorry you ended up losing a friend and it's sad that she can't open her eyes to see the truth. It's probably for the best to not have someone like that in your life especially if she wasn't being a good, supportive friend.

There's a YouTuber called Kiki Chanel and a lot of her content revolves around MLMs. One of her videos included footage from a team call over Zoom and it was insane. You get a good look into their recruitment tactics. From the number of times they would tell people to not listen to their friends and families to the way the team leader would talk to people.

 

[WinterFaust]

MLMs operate like cults. I had a friend who was in an MLM (Avocare) as well as Landmark, which is very very cultish, and she never stopped trying to pitch me for either of them, she'd just take breaks and start all over again. She was one of my best friends, I had been there for her through all of her huge shit, but when I needed support for my shit, she dumped me because I wouldn't join Landmark to learn their techniques.

God, I shuddered when I saw the name Landmark. I had two co-workers who were also good friends at the time get roped into that. One had me come along for her "graduation" from the program and I wanted to be there to support her. It was so creepy and I definitely got the cult vibe. They both tried to get me to join and kept talking about the Landmark techniques, how it changed their lives. It became pretty unbearable at times. Not a name I thought I'd see here.

I'm sorry to hear about your friend. It really is a shame when people get caught up in things like that. It changes them.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

God, I shuddered when I saw the name Landmark. I had two co-workers who were also good friends at the time get roped into that. One had me come along for her "graduation" from the program and I wanted to be there to support her. It was so creepy and I definitely got the cult vibe. They both tried to get me to join and kept talking about the Landmark techniques, how it changed their lives. It became pretty unbearable at times. Not a name I thought I'd see here.

I'm sorry to hear about your friend. It really is a shame when people get caught up in things like that. It changes them.

Have you ever read accounts of what the Forum your friend graduated from is like? It's pure cult indoctrination. And inviting people to the graduation is part of the recruitment strategy. I'm so sorry your friends went through that and that you shuddered when I mentioned Landmark.

In case you don't want to read anymore, putting the rest in a spoiler. I'm just basically making Landmark wrong.

Spoiler

One of the hardest things with my friend was when I brought up something she'd done and she replied, "You're making me wrong." It's Landmark's combination thought-stopping and defense technique. I met several of her Landmark friends and they were all really nice, and fortunately none of them tried to recruit me, but they all used the lingo and were really into their manifesting and changing their stories. There's a lot of helpful stuff wrapped up with the creepiness. They can even laugh at themselves and the lingo, but they aren't aware how controlling and creepy it is. My friend told me that one of the leaders in a higher up class bragged about how she put her Landmark duties ahead of her husband dying, and my friend argued with the BS, but she didn't grasp how it was a cult that was draining and somewhat enslaving her. She didn't see how the mindfucks like the Forum and what that leader said are seriously harmful. She didn't see how the recruiting is cult recruiting, and how all the volunteering was enslavement. In fact, she offered to pay for me to go to the Forum, and that's something they expect of members to do. I wouldn't be surprised but one of your friends offered. In order to remain and move up, one has to give up a lot of time and money. And their leadership programs don't even teach them how to be leaders. Btw, did you know that Lululemon is a cult work environment and they make employees go to the Landmark forum?

 

[WinterFaust]

@GoodPersonEffed I just looked up some accounts on it and it jogged my memory. I remember the one friend saying that being at the forum was like having his head kicked in. Somehow, I was supposed to see that as a positive. Very concerning. He did have some positive changes in his life at the time but I had my doubts as to whether or not this was long lasting change.

My other friend, the one who initially invited us, had gone through some serious trauma as a child. The Forum's philosophy was that she made this narrative against her mother and was holding herself back. She ended up patching things up with her mother and was happy about it, at first. So much of that program set off red flags for me and I tried to talk to her about how their philosophy could be really harmful but she was convinced she had a breakthrough.

The graduation ceremony itself reminded me of my early churchgoing days so I was very put off. I was also put off by the end when volunteers isolated me from the people I came with and tried to recruit me. They wouldn't take no for an answer. Thankfully, my friends understood that I wasn't interested and left it at that.

One of the hardest things with my friend was when I brought up something she'd done and she replied, "You're making me wrong." It's Landmark's combination thought-stopping and defense technique.

I came across this as well and it's very difficult. Thought-stopping is a good way of putting it. It takes critical thinking out of the equation and claims that all personal feelings are invalid. There's no nuance or discussion allowed.

My friend told me that one of the leaders in a higher up class bragged about how she put her Landmark duties ahead of her husband dying, and my friend argued with the BS, but she didn't grasp how it was a cult that was draining and somewhat enslaving her.

Yeah, that sounds about right. My friend left the Forum eventually because of this. She was a student in a demanding program with a full-time job and they were upset when she declined to lead Forum groups because of her other duties.

Btw, did you know that Lululemon is a cult work environment and they make employees go to the Landmark forum?

Wow, I had no idea. That's really unfortunate. I'll remember to stay the hell away from them during my job search