Minimizing oxygen in exit bag

[Vegetto]

I've been messing around and testing the pure N method, but I seem to be having a hard time completely getting rid of the oxygen in the bag. I've gotten to the point where my hearing, vision, and feeling begin to fade, but it takes 20-30 seconds (and this is with either quick breathing or deep breaths). I've heard that in a pure N2 environment passing out should be fairly quick and I should hardly notice a thing. Is there a proper way to place the bag on your head while you wait for it to fill after emptying the air in it? Should the hose be taped near the bottom or the top of the bag? Front, back, or side? Should I let more than 15 L of N per minute into it? Do I absolutely need to use a large oven bag or is a large ice bag (roughly the same size) adequate?

 

[Joannf]

I've been messing around and testing the pure N method, but I seem to be having a hard time completely getting rid of the oxygen in the bag. I've gotten to the point where my hearing, vision, and feeling begin to fade, but it takes 20-30 seconds (and this is with either quick breathing or deep breaths). I've heard that in a pure N2 environment passing out should be fairly quick and I should hardly notice a thing. Is there a proper way to place the bag on your head while you wait for it to fill after emptying the air in it? Should the hose be taped near the bottom or the top of the bag? Front, back, or side? Should I let more than 15 L of N per minute into it? Do I absolutely need to use a large oven bag or is a large ice bag (roughly the same size) adequate?

There's a few expert reviews of the N method here on special threads, please look them up. I'm actually glad to hear someone using the letter "N" for Nitrogen rather than Nembutal, which has been all the gas these last days... even the law got interested. But, no problem.
I understand (but I'm not an N expert) that with N inhalation, the problem is really just your EXhalation.
This is because you exhale CO2, and the brain will react with panic and flight when there is an excess of CO2, giving you a feeling of drowning. There's 21 % Oxygen in air, and we need minimum 19% to function - the rest is Nitrogen.
So if ypu have 2% Oxygen left in your bag, that will in no way be enough to keep you alive...
Does this make sense ? Exhale to sonewhere outside your breathing space.

 

[TiredHorse]

Your experience mirrors my own: it was not the near-instanteneous unconsciousness I have heard referenced, but more like what you're describing.

I followed what I believe to be standard instructions for filling the bag: wear it as you would a shower cap, with the elastic below your ears and just above your eyebrows; crumple it to squeeze out all the air; inflate it with N2. Once the bag is inflated with N2, exhale as much air as possible from your lungs, pull the bag down over your face, and inhale deeply.

The times I tried it, I was experiencing extreme anxiety and unable to breathe as deeply as I ideally should have. My breathing was very shallow and rapid, which meant the air in my lungs wasn't being exchanged for N2 as quickly as it should have been, and despite inhaling pure N2 the residual air in my lungs was still providing O2. I did manage that first deep exhalation/deep breath, but it still took far longer than I expected for my vision to go grey. Unfortunately, it was always long enough for SI to kick in.

As @Joannf says, CO2 can be a problem, but if you weren't experiencing hypercapnic alarm --that feeling of suffocation and panic-- (and it sounds like you weren't) you were already following a good protocol and your N2 flow rate was adequate. You shouldn't need to exhale outside the bag; that's why the 15 LPM and the elastic neckband are so important: that's what's required to flush away the CO2.

It sounds like you're doing everything right, but the residual air in your lungs isn't being cycled out fast enough for quick unconsciousness. Remember that the air you EXhale still has a high percentage of O2, your body only strips out a small portion of the O2 in each breath, and what emerges isn't all CO2, so any "used" air left in your lungs will have enough O2 to sustain you for a surprisingly long time.

As for hose location, I secured the end of my hose by tucking it through the hair elastic at my nape, so the end of the hose was near the back/top of my head. If I were to tape the hose to the inside of the bag, I would tape it near the top/above my head.

I have no idea how well an ice bag would work. Oven bags have the advantage of being very durable; their seams don't fail, as I've had ice bags fail when I'm using them to carry ice.

 

[AnnaJaspers]

Your experience mirrors my own: it was not the near-instanteneous unconsciousness I have heard referenced, but more like what you're describing.

I followed what I believe to be standard instructions for filling the bag: wear it as you would a shower cap, with the elastic below your ears and just above your eyebrows; crumple it to squeeze out all the air; inflate it with N2. Once the bag is inflated with N2, exhale as much air as possible from your lungs, pull the bag down over your face, and inhale deeply.

The times I tried it, I was experiencing extreme anxiety and unable to breathe as deeply as I ideally should have. My breathing was very shallow and rapid, which meant the air in my lungs wasn't being exchanged for N2 as quickly as it should have been, and despite inhaling pure N2 the residual air in my lungs was still providing O2. I did manage that first deep exhalation/deep breath, but it still took far longer than I expected for my vision to go grey. Unfortunately, it was always long enough for SI to kick in.

As @Joannf says, CO2 can be a problem, but if you weren't experiencing hypercapnic alarm --that feeling of suffocation and panic-- (and it sounds like you weren't) you were already following a good protocol and your N2 flow rate was adequate. You shouldn't need to exhale outside the bag; that's why the 15 LPM and the elastic neckband are so important: that's what's required to flush away the CO2.

It sounds like you're doing everything right, but the residual air in your lungs isn't being cycled out fast enough for quick unconsciousness. Remember that the air you EXhale still has a high percentage of O2, your body only strips out a small portion of the O2 in each breath, and what emerges isn't all CO2, so any "used" air left in your lungs will have enough O2 to sustain you for a surprisingly long time.

As for hose location, I secured the end of my hose by tucking it through the hair elastic at my nape, so the end of the hose was near the back/top of my head. If I were to tape the hose to the inside of the bag, I would tape it near the top/above my head.

I have no idea how well an ice bag would work. Oven bags have the advantage of being very durable; their seams don't fail, as I've had ice bags fail when I'm using them to carry ice.

When I spoke to Final Exit they told me that time to unconsciousness would be swift. Your experience troubles me. I have not practiced yet, only have my regulator and exit bag.

 

[Joannf]

Your experience mirrors my own: it was not the near-instanteneous unconsciousness I have heard referenced, but more like what you're describing.

I followed what I believe to be standard instructions for filling the bag: wear it as you would a shower cap, with the elastic below your ears and just above your eyebrows; crumple it to squeeze out all the air; inflate it with N2. Once the bag is inflated with N2, exhale as much air as possible from your lungs, pull the bag down over your face, and inhale deeply.

The times I tried it, I was experiencing extreme anxiety and unable to breathe as deeply as I ideally should have. My breathing was very shallow and rapid, which meant the air in my lungs wasn't being exchanged for N2 as quickly as it should have been, and despite inhaling pure N2 the residual air in my lungs was still providing O2. I did manage that first deep exhalation/deep breath, but it still took far longer than I expected for my vision to go grey. Unfortunately, it was always long enough for SI to kick in.

As @Joannf says, CO2 can be a problem, but if you weren't experiencing hypercapnic alarm --that feeling of suffocation and panic-- (and it sounds like you weren't) you were already following a good protocol and your N2 flow rate was adequate. You shouldn't need to exhale outside the bag; that's why the 15 LPM and the elastic neckband are so important: that's what's required to flush away the CO2.

It sounds like you're doing everything right, but the residual air in your lungs isn't being cycled out fast enough for quick unconsciousness. Remember that the air you EXhale still has a high percentage of O2, your body only strips out a small portion of the O2 in each breath, and what emerges isn't all CO2, so any "used" air left in your lungs will have enough O2 to sustain you for a surprisingly long time.

As for hose location, I secured the end of my hose by tucking it through the hair elastic at my nape, so the end of the hose was near the back/top of my head. If I were to tape the hose to the inside of the bag, I would tape it near the top/above my head.

I have no idea how well an ice bag would work. Oven bags have the advantage of being very durable; their seams don't fail, as I've had ice bags fail when I'm using them to carry ice.

Very interesting. I think an average human can stay conscious with inhaled air for almost three minutes, the air staying inside the alveoli, to be slowly consumed
This should be understood, as it's doubtlessly a factor to be heeded - N does not kill people, the absence of O does.
That's why I personally prefer CO, which does the same thing as N, just way more effectively - it stops the O at molecular level in the red blood cells - no need to control your breathing, more intuitive ;)

 

[Vegetto]

Very interesting. I think an average human can stay conscious with inhaled air for almost three minutes, the air staying inside the alveoli, to be slowly consumed
This should be understood, as it's doubtlessly a factor to be heeded - N does not kill people, the absence of O does.
That's why I personally prefer CO, which does the same thing as N, just way more effectively - it stops the O at molecular level in the red blood cells - no need to control your breathing, more intuitive ;)

In all honesty, I'm probably just gonna stick with short drop hanging. The few times I've tested it out I was losing consciousness in seconds. I only moved away from it out of fear that my body position may shift and the noose would loosen before it was over (on the topic - is there any way to avoid this? I found that kneeling with my neck sticking out cut off oxygen the quickest. Would I need to worry about my body shifting in this position while unconscious?)

 

[Joannf]

In all honesty, I'm probably just gonna stick with short drop hanging. The few times I've tested it out I was losing consciousness in seconds. I only moved away from it out of fear that my body position may shift and the noose would loosen before it was over (on the topic - is there any way to avoid this? I found that kneeling with my neck sticking out cut off oxygen the quickest. Would I need to worry about my body shifting in this position while unconscious?)

I can only supply anecdotal data, but this is an angle one should explore... when I was rather little, we played silly games and a boy strangled me with both hands (while I was strangling him, to see who lost consciousness first). It was just a funny game, really and I passed out and came to on the floor with the boy standing over me with a worried look on his face - it had been ten seconds or so. It was not unpleasant at all.
Years later there was a guy in our town who got a mild conviction for manslaughter because he had killed another guy who had allegedly sexually molested him.
So what happened was that he got mad and grabbed the other guy by the throat with ONE hand, pressing hard - that was enough cause a constriction of the carotid artery on ONE side, and the guy dropped and died.
I think if you do this just right, it is one of the best methods. I also think we should find out more - there's a few desperate people here who are unable to use more complicated methods and cannot buy chemicals or drugs.

 

[justanotherday]

Yes, and I am one of them

 

[Sirius]

Anyone heard of pre death convulsions on Nitro? Don't want that hood flopping off