man's search for meaning

[406metallicblue]

There is a book by viktor frankl called man's search for meaning, he was a concentration camp survivior. He puts forward the idea that the will to live is very strong (as we all know) and that meaning can be found in bearing suffering with dignity. It's a nice idea. i do my best, I wonder what other people think about this principle.

 

[Jen Erik]

that meaning can be found in bearing suffering with dignity

What does this mean, "with dignity"?

 

[Xaphous]

I understand dying with dignity. I'm reminded of the samurais who would stab themselves and bleed out for losing battle for their masters but maybe that's foolish from another perspective. I don't know about suffering with dignity unless there was light at the end of the suffering, otherwise it's for nothing.

 

[406metallicblue]

What does this mean, "with dignity"?

What he meant was stoicism, more or less.

According to its teachings, as social beings, the path to happiness for humans is found in accepting the moment as it presents itself, by not allowing oneself to be controlled by the desire for pleasure or fear of pain, by using one's mind to understand the world and to do one's part in nature's plan, and by working together and treating others fairly and justly.

I'm not suggesting it's easy to accept suffering and stop struggling, i can't manage it. The fact that we are all going to die anyway ought to be a source of suffering but most people bypass it because their immediate life is acceptable. In the book, people in concentration camps had no light at the end of the tunnel but there was something that made some people accept this better than others. And some genuinely believed they would survive. One thing they had in common was that they were all in the same boat and survival instinct. His experience was that those who gave up hope completely didn't last long and the ones who survived or lasted longest had an inner flame. By dignity, i meant acceptance without complaining.

 

[ShadowOfTheDay]

There is a novel by Elie Wiesel, another holocaust survivor called "Night." He presents what I think is a far more vivid, haunting portrayal of the human condition, without all of the sanctimonious, overly optimistic commentary.

 

[406metallicblue]

There is a novel by Elie Wiesel, another holocaust survivor called "Night." He presents what I think is a far more vivid, haunting portrayal of the human condition, without all of the sanctimonious, overly optimistic commentary.

Yes, Frankl had his own axe to grind because he was formulating his own existential philosophy, which he would use to make a living after being freed from the camp. But i don't think it's overly optimistic to see the 'will to live' as critical to our existence. For that we must have a reason better than accepting our suffering with dignity and poise.. i'll leave all that to the zen masters, for the rest of us we need hope, a spark. Cattle lead their lives with poise and dignity without a logical reason.

 

[GeorgeJL]

There is a book by viktor frankl called man's search for meaning, he was a concentration camp survivior. He puts forward the idea that the will to live is very strong (as we all know) and that meaning can be found in bearing suffering with dignity. It's a nice idea. i do my best, I wonder what other people think about this principle.

As someone that has suffered a lot in the past and lost some of my dignity. I can tell you that suffering is only meaningful and useful if it causes growth for yourself or others. And growth can be measured by ones ability to decipher and see reality clearly and through that directly or indirectly help end suffering for themselves and/or others while gaining meaning to their lives. If suffering for the sake of suffering is good, then a rat in new york city with 200 diseases would be enlightenment.

So if you are bearing suffering ask yourself, what am I learning? The answer to this may not be apparent at first so give it some time and try to get something meaningful out of it while your at it otherwise it's a waste of time and energy.

 

[Your Own Ghost]

I'm not sure if interpret the message of the book the same way some of you do. But that's OK. Frankl, I thought, was writing about how having meaning in one's life enables the human psyche to endure the hardships of suffering. As he saw time and again in the concentration camps, once that link of meaning was severed (say someone found out their family was no longer alive), the body broke down quickly. In many ways, to sever meaning was a deadly act.

This is far from limited to concentrated camps, though. An example I'm thinking of right now is how women go through an immense amount of suffering to have a baby. To most, having a baby is an intensely meaningful thing, and great joy comes as a result of the suffering.

I think Joseph Campbell said that it's not so much the pursuit of meaning but the desire for the experience of being alive that drives people. I tend to agree with that, however weird it may seem to post on Sanctioned Suicide. Through experience we find meaning, but if we go looking for meaning from the outset it's like going in backwards and we end up overturning rocks looking for an abstract thing that we must cultivate ourselves.

 

[406metallicblue]

As someone that has suffered a lot in the past and lost some of my dignity. I can tell you that suffering is only meaningful and useful if it causes growth for yourself or others. And growth can be measured by ones ability to decipher and see reality clearly and through that directly or indirectly help end suffering for themselves and/or others while gaining meaning to their lives. If suffering for the sake of suffering is good, then a rat in new york city with 200 diseases would be enlightenment.

So if you are bearing suffering ask yourself, what am I learning? The answer to this may not be apparent at first so give it some time and try to get something meaningful out of it while your at it otherwise it's a waste of time and energy.

I ask the question frequently about what am i learning from the suffering, with the implicit idea that there is something to be learned from it. I don't think suffering for the sake of it is good, although there are a lot of books written about how it helps us discover ourselves etc. As for enlightenment, many buddhist teachers have made the point that studying such things without support can be dangerous. You open a crack and before you know it there's a chasm, which requires a lot of filling.