Discussion Man's search for meaning by Viktor Frankl

[SipSop]

I struggled to comprehend this reality from a early age and the best approach till now was doctor's Frankl approach of will to meaning wich is will to life.
It says in the book with the same name that everyboy has a personal goal that makes them cling to life, and give people as a by product because they fulfilled that goal happiness, pride and satisfaction in life.
Will to meaning is split in three ways in wich we can obtain a meaningful life:
by creating something or doing, by experiencing something or someone or by having a certain attitude toward a event or experience.
I want to know what is your opinion on this matter.
Also, I have some materials that will familiarise you with the subject better.

 

[SipSop]

Well, even if people are not interested in this information I strongly believe in it. He persuaded me that I can do something from my own position in life.
Another interesting topic:

 

[a.n.kirillov]

If he persuaded you to affirm life, good – I better not give my opinion.

Are you religious?

 

[SipSop]

If he persuaded you to affirm life, good – I better not give my opinion.

Are you religious?

I am not. I went through a long process of deconversion when I was younger. It was tough as I only had friends who were christians. And I had to pretty much fake my belief just to be in sort of decent group of caring people. It just doesn't add up. How about you?

 

[a.n.kirillov]

No, I am not religious, although sometimes I wish I were or could be.

 

[SipSop]

No, I am not religious, although sometimes I wish I were or could be.

Why is that?

 

[a.n.kirillov]

Why is that?

Well if I really believed in Christianity, then my suffering might be endurable; there would be a good reason to endure it and clear values to orient myself towards. The thought of someone loving me unconditionally, watching me from above, would also help me accept myself.

 

[SipSop]

Well if I really believed in Christianity, then my suffering might be endurable; there would be a good reason to endure it and clear values to orient myself towards. The thought of someone loving me unconditionally, watching me from above, would also help me accept myself.

I understand, it is quite powerful to blindly believe that somehow things will get better in the end. Somehow is like self fulfilling prophecy. But from my perspective, a person just cannot fake faith, in order to benefit from those psychological perks that some of them do.
And about affirming life, he gave me some hope. I despised myself for not looking the best, or not having riches, for being quite average in mind, spirit and body. But he persuaded me that having a goal to fulfill, a personal goal, makes the misery worth fighting. And I might earn momentarily happiness and pride in myself for accomplishing that personal goal of mine.
I believe that will to meaning is will to life.
And this point of view applies to each individual.
It happened to me that few day ago I was in deep physical pain because I lost the only person I really loved. She was the cause of my first attempt and she was about to be the cause of my second.
But as Viktor Frankl states:
"when we are no longer to change a situation we are challenged to change ourselves."
I didn't wanted to accept this, I said that I would rather die than to accept that I lost her. But this community helped me.
That's why I wanted to share this knowledge with you guys.
I'm not some naive fool.
I hope it will help some of you.

 

[SipSop]

Our need for meaning and purpose:

 

[Nuclear Gandhi]

I have read this book, it's great. It's inspiring how Viktor Frankl perceived his life after everything that happened to him and how much he's done to help others. His idea of dealing of existential anxiety is something really close to home.
However, for me personally it's extremely hard to identify meaning of my life when I am depressed. When you feel like there is nothing you can give to this world.

 

[SipSop]

I have read this book, it's great. It's inspiring how Viktor Frankl perceived his life after everything that happened to him and how much he's done to help others. His idea of dealing of existential anxiety is something really close to home.
However, for me personally it's extremely hard to identify meaning of my life when I am depressed. When you feel like there is nothing you can give to this world.

I know exactly how you feel. I feel the same way. His point of view is still a material that gives hope, and a good path in life.

 

[262653]

I'm fine with living a meaningless life as long as it's prevalently enjoyable. It's when it starts feeling unenjoyable I find myself asking whether or not life is worth experiencing (following with negative answer), or looking for ways to justify the unenjoyable side when none are apparent.

If the guy from the sky would come to me and said that my life purpose is to work as cashier, I don't think I'd be satisfied with that.

Okay, the more I think about this topic, the less solid the ground under my feet becomes. For starters, what's bad about a meaningless life?

 

[SipSop]

I'm fine with living a meaningless life as long as it's prevalently enjoyable. It's when it starts feeling unenjoyable I find myself asking whether or not life is worth experiencing (following with negative answer), or looking for ways to justify the unenjoyable side when none are apparent.

If the guy from the sky would come to me and said that my life purpose is to work as cashier, I don't think I'd be satisfied with that.

Okay, the more I think about this topic, the less solid the ground under my feet becomes. For starters, what's bad about a meaningless life?

well, for what I understood he states that we humans have innate need that we do not satisfy. Namely, the will to meaning.
He also states a curious thing that we turn to pursuit of pleasure (food, sex, happines even) and pursuit of power (domination of others, greater status) when we fail to DISCOVER (not create, because we cannot create our goals, but we discover them because they are personal) our goals, our will to meaning in our life, wich is the will to life.
He also states that happiness and success when we pursue them we tend to alienate them. He states that happines and success is a by product of pursuing our meaning in life, wich we discover. I guess we were all interested in something at a point in our life but gave up on it because somthing happened to us or we failed. As long as we are alive we can still try. And our goals will help us bear almost any suffering.
I hope I answered to your question. If not, I can try to explain better.

 

[TheGoodGuy]

Makes perfect sense my hopes and dreams died a long time ago and I can´t experience new ones because of physical and mental problems so there is no meaning in my life only suffering but even a few years ago where I suffered almost as much as now I had a dream that made me hold on to life now I have nothing but physical and mental pain several chronical problems, so yes I totally agree with this statement.

 

[262653]

@SipSop
I'm not sure what questions to ask. There was a short period in my life when I was obsessed with a big goal, and it felt nice while it lasted. Hence my (fleeting) interest in this topic.

 

[SipSop]

@SipSop
I'm not sure what questions to ask. There was a short period in my life when I was obsessed with a big goal, and it felt nice while it lasted. Hence my (fleeting) interest in this topic.

I feel that those quotes answer your questions.
Namely, we should not ask life what it has to offer to us but we are asked by life what we have to offer to it.
And the second specifies that we have our own personal goals in this life.

Also, I want to add that I realised that we are formed by 3 main parts: physical, mental and emotional.
I just realised that my emotional body, my feelings, are the one that motivate me, drive me, energise me to live my life.
Take care of your emotional body. Because That is your self.
I feel that those quotes answer your questions.
Namely, we should not ask life what it has to offer to us but we are asked by life what we have to offer to it.
And the second specifies that we have our own personal goals in this life.

Also, I want to add that I realised that we are formed by 3 main parts: physical, mental and emotional.
I just realised that my emotional body, my feelings, are the one that motivate me, drive me, energise me to live my life.
Take care of your emotional body. Because That is your self.

 

[262653]

Eh, I don't like the idea of being a servant to life... Being a servant means to put the needs and wants of others above your own. Sounds undesirable.
And that everyone has a specific mission in life... I'm torn between what seems to be more consistent with reality and what seems to bring more good feelings.
I should probably stop here.

 

[SipSop]

Eh, I don't like the idea of being a servant to life... Being a servant means to put the needs and wants of others above your own. Sounds undesirable.
And that everyone has a specific mission in life... I'm torn between what seems to be more consistent with reality and what seems to bring more good feelings.
I should probably stop here.

Well, you decide what serves you better.
I believe that this information could help you to have a larger perspective on matters.
Have a good one.

 

[Euthanza]

Frankl has been the subject of criticism from several holocaust analysts[5]​[6]​ who questioned the levels of Nazi accommodation that the ideology of logotherapy has and Frankl personally willingly pursued in the time periods before Frankl's internment, when Frankl voluntarily requested to perform unskilled lobotomy experiments approved by the Nazis on Jews,[7]​ to the time period of his internment, in what is hinted upon in Frankl's own autobiographical account and later under the investigative light of biographical research.
...
None of Frankl's obituaries mention the unqualified and unskilled brain lobotomy and trepanation medical experiments approved by the Nazis that Frankl performed on Jews who had committed suicide with an overdose of sedatives, in resistance to their impending arrest, imprisonment and enforced labour in the concentration camp system. Operating without any training as a surgeon, Frankl would publish some of the details on his experiments, the methods of insertion of his chosen amphetamine drugs into the brains of these individuals, resulting in at times an alleged partial resuscitation, in 1942, prior to his own internment at Theresienstadt ghetto in September later in that year. Historian Günter Bischof of Harvard University, suggests Frankl's voluntary request to perform lobotomy experiments could be seen as a way to "ingratiate" himself amongst the Nazis, as the latter were not appreciative of suicide being on arrest records.[15]​[44]​[34]​

Viktor Frankl - Wikipedia

web.archive.org

​

 

[Celerity]

I tried to get into this book, but I couldn't.

I think I would be one of the prisoners that either goes out in a blaze of righteous glory trying to save another prisoner or, more likely, abandons my humanity to hedonism. He said that the Jews who had given up smoked all the cigarettes they got on the camp's black market because they knew they would die soon and didn't anticipate trading them for something more useful like food.

 

[callme]

Yet another way of thinking preemptovely assuming the person in question and in fact, EVERY person is willing and more importantly, CAN find a meaning in their life. I can intuitively agree that fulfillment of the search for meaning is primary for living life, but it being vested in reality for certsin people is another story.

His way of thinking also expounded upon the greatest human misery, at a time human values were needed the most, a world far-removed from the one today. Present day materialist obsessed life obscures meaning unless a person's primary drive is one of those Frankl disagrees with - the will to power especially.

 

[whitefeather]

and Greed -the Will to Money. Capitolism=Cannibalism