Discussion Life is evolution competition for good genes and mentality, the weakest dies, the strongest carry on?

[KleinerWolf]

I often ask myself why did I consider suicide when my life was not remotely as bad compared to people who suffer worse than me.

I often tell myself that if I die by suicide, I'm lack courage which means my genes are not good enough to carry on in this world.

I don't know if this makes sense but
there's 7.8 billion people with various personal problems.
But at end of the day,
does anyone care u die? probably not.

Shaped by my own biased world view, at end of the day, it is nothing more than a competition.
I'm a firm believer of evolution. If you are not good enough, you die.
The strongest carry on, regardless their situation.


I'm not sure if this is like a discussion or venting.
It is also extremely controversial, I do support Euthanasia and I'm aware that life is sometimes unfair and injustice and that sometimes people feel like they are out of options.

But please do let me know what you think about this topic.
Comment down below if you wish.
Thank you.

 

[rhiino]

I think you are absolutely right. Except today the weakest don't die anymore but are kept alive by society with modern medicine and other means of help. This might ruin the gene-pool so much that some day there will be only physically and mentally weak people. No offense, I count myself to one of those and I should have died because of it.

 

[KleinerWolf]

I feel like we should also avoid discussion of the physical side of things(congenital disease/parental abuse/traumas from sexual assault/parental divorce etc) because it is not something we volunteer for and would never have chosen to take part in.

Besides often the case, it is fairly rare for those things to spread onto offspring, should you choose to reproduce.

I'm a firm believer of "every man for himself, should not care about the gene pool because it means nothing if u don't exist"

But I often have the idea that despite how bad things are, if I can't get a grip of things, I probably don't deserve to carry on my genes to take part in the gene pool.

It's contradictory somewhat.
But in a way it also helps me push harder in life and remain a positive mindset than I normally do.
Because I wanna prove to myself like I'm good enough to take part in it.

It's confusing really.
I'm not sure if this makes sense to anyone else...

 

[Deleted member 17949]

Evolution based arguments never make much sense tbh. Evolution isn't intelligent, nor are individual creatures really aware of it without really analyzing the world like humans have. Evolution is really just the fact that the things that are alive now are things that have been good at living, or that things that are good at living are likely to continue living while things that aren't as good die out. It's really just a chain of events. There is no end goal and it's not like certain traits are 'supposed' to be removed.

 

[KleinerWolf]

Evolution based arguments never make much sense tbh. Evolution isn't intelligent, nor are individual creatures really aware of it without really analyzing the world like humans have. Evolution is really just the fact that the things that are alive now are things that have been good at living, or that things that are good at living are likely to continue living while things that aren't as good die out. It's really just a chain of events. There is no end goal and it's not like certain traits are 'supposed' to be removed.

I agree with what you said. Those are wise words for what evolution theory is.
However I've sometimes thought to myself like life is about having fun while you are here.
Life certainly has a lot of pain involved and I understand why some of us considered or have contemplated suicide.

What I sometimes ask myself is that if resting in peace means away from pain/suffering, which also translates to non-existence,
It makes me thinking whats the sheer difference as opposed to living?

I thought life is about achieving something you like and having fun while it lasts,
also I feel like life is an illusion in the vast range of things, except when you put a timeframe on it, (as we are here right now)
then it's supposed to mean something and feels real.

 

[Brick In The Wall]

I often tell myself that if I die by suicide, I'm lack courage which means my genes are not good enough to carry on in this world.

I don't necessarily think that suicide makes you weak. But it is a dog eat dog world where the strongest and smartest survive and thrive.

But at end of the day,
does anyone care u die? probably not.

At the end of the day no one cares if you die, they care even less if you CTB. The only people who might care are your parents, children, or SO. Everyone else will forget about you pretty quick.

I thought life is about achieving something you like and having fun while it lasts

This is true, it's also about building good memories. When you're on your death bed you'll be thinking about good memories, not how much money or stuff you accumulated.

 

[KleinerWolf]

This is true, it's also about building good memories. When you're on your death bed you'll be thinking about good memories, not how much money or stuff you accumulated.

Right on buddy!

 

[SoyImbecilaburrido]

Right on buddy!

Build ando

I don't necessarily think that suicide makes you weak. But it is a dog eat dog world where the strongest and smartest survive and thrive.



At the end of the day no one cares if you die, they care even less if you CTB. The only people who might care are your parents, children, or SO. Everyone else will forget about you pretty quick.


This is true, it's also about building good memories. When you're on your death bed you'll be thinking about good memories, not how much money or stuff you accumulated.

Build doing good things for others, others will apreciate, even if you are in bad situation, that is grace.

 

[everydayiloveyou]

Well individual choices mean nothing on an evolutionary scale. Survival of the fittest doesnt mean that the strongest and smartest survive. It just means that if you can have a baby who eventually has their own baby, then your genes will persist. And that means they were fit.
Nature doesnt make distinctions between natural vs unnatural deaths or fulfilling vs unfulfilling lives either. It just sees death and life and birth.

I think the issue of mental illness is like that of the kiwi bird. So a kiwi bird is kinda useless, but they serve an important ecological function in their small, isolated island habitat, like all animals do. They evolved without wings, because it never mattered whether they had them or not. When invasive species came along, suddenly they weren't so fit anymore. Their lack of wings, which nature deemed neither "fit" nor "unfit," eventually became something that influenced their survival. Similarly, I believe that a genetic predisposition to mental illness has historically had no impact on human fitness, but these days it kinda does. Rich, powerful, self-serving people are like the invasive species on our little isolated island called planet Earth. These people made us feel like we always have to fight over artificial scarcities and fake objects for survival. In reality we don't need to do that, because there's plenty of food, houses, and money to go around for everyone. But this is our new normal, so people justifiably react negatively to it. This "triggers" their predisposition for mental illness, so they might ctb or otherwise fail to reproduce, and thus do not win survival of the fittest.

I think if mental illness is this prevalent and persistent throughout human history, then it probably doesn't have a big impact on our survivability as a species. Technically it's perfectly possible to live a full, "fit" life, have a mental illness, and eventually ctb. It's the same for everyone with pretty much any kind of condition or disability. Ctb is a personal choice that people make for a variety of reasons. I guess it's a natural consequence of humans evolving such deep self-awareness and free will. But I'm no scientist, so idk im probably just lying to myself at this point

 

[Uzera]

I feel like we should also avoid discussion of the physical side of things(congenital disease/parental abuse/traumas from sexual assault/parental divorce etc) because it is not something we volunteer for and would never have chosen to take part in.

Besides often the case, it is fairly rare for those things to spread onto offspring, should you choose to reproduce.

I'm a firm believer of "every man for himself, should not care about the gene pool because it means nothing if u don't exist"

But I often have the idea that despite how bad things are, if I can't get a grip of things, I probably don't deserve to carry on my genes to take part in the gene pool.

It's contradictory somewhat.
But in a way it also helps me push harder in life and remain a positive mindset than I normally do.
Because I wanna prove to myself like I'm good enough to take part in it.

It's confusing really.
I'm not sure if this makes sense to anyone else...

I think you need to consider that stuff you didn't want to bring it up like social/environment stuff. I feel like the genetic part of it doesn't matter as much it's part of the equation just not as much. I think there might be people where that doesn't matter though. Like it was denmark I think where I watched a video and this girl(I think 24) was applying for euthanasia. Nothing helped her depression. After a few years she got approved and day of injection she couldn't do it BUT a couple of years later she went through with it. So what's that about? Was that genetic? Back to the social stuff I know alot of us ended up on this wanting to kill ourselves because of things that happened to us not stuff we were born with. I could see though how when you compare your life to others how you might make that conclusion about it being more of a genetic thing and you might be right. When I started writing this out I thought I had the answer but now I'm left with more questions. In any case I think evolution is more useful as a tool to explain a specific thing rather than coming up with be all end all theories. Like at the least I feel like a conclusion I made from this was that sometimes what determines someone's is genetic, and sometimes its a complex set of things from the environment. Even that sounds really broad. Makes my head spin thinking about this stuff lol.

 

[so tired or manic]

I should have died many many years ago and a few times since with diabetes alone. I wish there was never a solution. my mental illness might get better here and there, but it never lasts and the bad times significantly outweigh the good.

despite all that for some reason I keep being optimistic that there's this magical future I can't see yet. well, that and my animals wouldn't survive without me around. between my cat and I there's at least a dozen diagnosed illness so I don't have anyone I can trust to take care of him.

basically I wish it was survival of the fittest because I'd have been gone decades ago.

 

[KleinerWolf]

I think you need to consider that stuff you didn't want to bring it up like social/environment stuff. I feel like the genetic part of it doesn't matter as much it's part of the equation just not as much. I think there might be people where that doesn't matter though. Like it was denmark I think where I watched a video and this girl(I think 24) was applying for euthanasia. Nothing helped her depression. After a few years she got approved and day of injection she couldn't do it BUT a couple of years later she went through with it. So what's that about? Was that genetic? Back to the social stuff I know alot of us ended up on this wanting to kill ourselves because of things that happened to us not stuff we were born with. I could see though how when you compare your life to others how you might make that conclusion about it being more of a genetic thing and you might be right. When I started writing this out I thought I had the answer but now I'm left with more questions. In any case I think evolution is more useful as a tool to explain a specific thing rather than coming up with be all end all theories. Like at the least I feel like a conclusion I made from this was that sometimes what determines someone's is genetic, and sometimes its a complex set of things from the environment. Even that sounds really broad. Makes my head spin thinking about this stuff lol.

People that pull through environmental or social setbacks have incredible mental strength.
I suspect that human intelligence/world view elevates once an individual overcome their issues. For this reason I think they make good parents.

Thank you for correcting me, because you are right, mental strength is not everything at play here. Environmental, social and coincidental factors can have significant impact on a persons overall life outlook.

However, if an individual is caught in the middle of a shitty situation, it's important to BREAK THE CYCLE. As for suicide, everything goes poof, but there is no real prizes to be won.

I should have died many many years ago and a few times since with diabetes alone. I wish there was never a solution. my mental illness might get better here and there, but it never lasts and the bad times significantly outweigh the good.

despite all that for some reason I keep being optimistic that there's this magical future I can't see yet. well, that and my animals wouldn't survive without me around. between my cat and I there's at least a dozen diagnosed illness so I don't have anyone I can trust to take care of him.

basically I wish it was survival of the fittest because I'd have been gone decades ago.

life is especially tough when things like that get in our way.
The system is rigged, and it's chaotic.

You have a big heart looking after your dog.
I salute you for that.

 

[netrezven]

I find it kind of arogant and too optimistic for humans to say who is weakest or strongest. Nature doesn't care at all. It's all chaos. Those who survive are those who survive. Evolution only makes things little bit more masochistic.

 

[Sensei]

I think you are absolutely right. Except today the weakest don't die anymore but are kept alive by society with modern medicine and other means of help. This might ruin the gene-pool so much that some day there will be only physically and mentally weak people. No offense, I count myself to one of those and I should have died because of it.

That depends on how you define weak, doesn't it? Stephen Hawking would have been a burden in the Stone ages, but was an asset in our time. Bipolarity is de facto a genetic defect, yet bipolar people are heavily overrepresented among authors and scientists. The list goes on. I'd say that the concept of weakness is quite subjective.

 

[rhiino]

@Sensei
Well, I was using weakness in terms of least able to survive in a natural scenario, meaning stone age, for which nature has made us. I know few people will share this sentiment, but I don't care for scientists or authors, they do not contribute to the welfare of humanity. We should have stayed in stone age, people were happy there as it was our natural, healthy way of living.

 

[Sensei]

@Sensei
Well, I was using weakness in terms of least able to survive in a natural scenario, meaning stone age, for which nature has made us. I know few people will share this sentiment, but I don't care for scientists or authors, they do not contribute to the welfare of humanity. We should have stayed in stone age, people were happy there as it was our natural, healthy way of living.

If it applies to the Stone Age, it doesn't necessarily apply to our age, now does it? To take an example from modern times, many people are attracted to sensitive and outright weak people who wouldn't survive long in a harsh environment. I'd say that we're beyond evolution in many respects.

As for the example of bipolar people, it's more complex than it seems. The prevalence for bipolar disorder remains stable, even though it logically should go down, as it, simplified, is inheritable and bipolar people get fewer children on average than the general population. In other words, this weakness has also been a strength in the past, because otherwise it would have disappeared through natural selection.

I'm not saying that you must be wrong and that evolution no longer applies to mankind in any respect, just that it's very complex.

 

[Teddybear]

If Evolution would be about "survival of the fittest", we'd still be ruled by Dinosaurs.

Darwin spoke about survival of the best adapted - the rest is what pop-culture made of it.

The "quality" of your genes depends on the environment you use them in.

 

[Hollowillow]

If Evolution would be about "survival of the fittest", we'd still be ruled by Dinosaurs.

Darwin spoke about survival of the best adapted - the rest is what pop-culture made of it.

The "quality" of your genes depends on the environment you use them in.

I'd rather be a raptor in a fight with a Trex than have to fight with administration labyrinth & forms.

 

[Teddybear]

I'd rather be a raptor in a fight with a Trex than have to fight with administration labyrinth & forms.

Hehehe, guess which part of humanity won't survive the next "environmental adjustment". :D

Bureaucrats and the apocalypse - a story worth at least two movies.

 

[Hollowillow]

Hehehe, guess which part of humanity won't survive the next "environmental adjustment". :D

Bureaucrats and the apocalypse - a story worth at least two movies.

Sadly I think bureaucrats will be the last to survive, even after cockroaches. (Why is there the word cock in cockroackes? The dick or the bird? What means roaches?)

(fake quote to test) I'm a pretty bear.

Yes you are.

Fascinating how we can edit quotes & could ruin someone's reputation...

And I'd love to see it if you made bureaucrats in an apocalyptic movie. I hope it ends bad. Do a trilogy. The last bureaucrat will have to fill his own forms. Poetic justice.

 

[obafgkm]

Modern world has long (say 10,000 years since the beginning of farming) passed beyond the stage of survival of species. There is really more food than people can eat. People throw away food and other resources in festivals, while other places face shortage. Most famines and shortages are due to politics: embargo, blockage, war. Survival is mostly used for political control, propaganda, and manipulating behavior: if you don't follow my order, you will have hunger.

Modern societies should really look beyond survival, onto human rights, improving living conditions and other aspects of humanity. Suicidal people are really ahead of the crowd because they care about ending sufferings and hopelessness than painfully struggling for mere existence.

 

[Teddybear]

"Modern socities" still function by the same biological instincts that dictated cavemen behaviour. And while our survival as a species is far from being threatened, our societies do tether at the brink of self-destruction as a means of common policy by now.

"Our world" will end within a very short time frame. But "the world" will keep on spinning for a few more billion years.

 

[Mr2005]

Modern world has long (say 10,000 years since the beginning of farming) passed beyond the stage of survival of species. There is really more food than people can eat. People throw away food and other resources in festivals, while other places face shortage. Most famines and shortages are due to politics: embargo, blockage, war. Survival is mostly used for political control, propaganda, and manipulating behavior: if you don't follow my order, you will have hunger.

Modern societies should really look beyond survival, onto human rights, improving living conditions and other aspects of humanity. Suicidal people are really ahead of the crowd because they care about ending sufferings and hopelessness than painfully struggling for mere existence.

No they don't. Yesterday I read "I'd save my phone from a fire before a person" this is just a way of blowing smoke up your ass . Btw why is it in recovery?

 

[obafgkm]

"Modern socities" still function by the same biological instincts that dictated cavemen behaviour. And while our survival as a species is far from being threatened, our societies do tether at the brink of self-destruction as a means of common policy by now.

"Our world" will end within a very short time frame. But "the world" will keep on spinning for a few more billion years.

The cavemen instincts are probably the cause of many modern lifestyle and mental issues. If the gap continues to widen, genetic engineering is probably needed to make human able to cope with it's own progress. Missing links in evolution suggest genetic manipulation might have happened in the past.

Having said that it really doesn't matter, or even a good thing, if human completely vanishes from Earth tomorrow.

 

[BrokenJesus]

While humans are obviously still subjects to natural selection, we as a species have access to a lot of ways to reduce (or, on the other hand, increase) the selective pressure, through culture, politics and technology.

 

[redeyepiranha]

Everyone dies in the end: the strongest and the weakest