Zzzzz

Zzzzz

Nothing compares to the bliss of death.
Aug 8, 2018
879
NOT a responsibility. We are not deserters, we are not irresponsible. We don't owe the world a thing. We NEVER gave our word. The moment we were born, we were forced to exist without our consent. Now we are old enough to take our power back. As children, we were trapped in ignorance and fantasies about life that were fed to us by others. Now we know the truth. There's a cruelty to life. And only one way to truly end all of our pain forever. My suicidal prayer.
 
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W

WornOutLife

マット
Mar 22, 2020
7,164
Fortunately, people like us are not being deceived anymore but I know many adults who are living surrounded by lies, such as believing a smiling bearded guy is taking care of them and will send them to hell if they're bad boys. Well, I'm actually an agnostic so who knows? Maybe they're right but I don't think so.

Anyway, life is full of suffering but I gotta admit existing is so weird. Just what the hell is life? How can something come from nothing? I just want to know the truth. If eternal nothigness is waiting for us I'll be like "damn, this sucks" lol.

All in all, I agree with you.
 
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Meretlein

Meretlein

Moderator
Feb 15, 2019
1,199
"We never asked to be born" is often mocked by prolifers and others who assume life is inherent good. However it is a fair point, life is full of harms and costs that no one consented to have imposed on them, so why are we obligated to carry them?

It is often said that suicidal people will miss out of the pleasures of life if we ctb but that isn't really true. Just as the time before we were born wasn't a deprivation, the time after we die won't be either. That asymmetry has always poked a hole in the idea that we are obligated to live and anyone who doesn't want to live is pathologically out of touch with reality. The evolutionary drive to survive no matter what is no more rational the desire to extinguish suffering.
 
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profoundexperience

profoundexperience

You can feel the punishment but you cant commit ts
Jun 29, 2020
436
As children, we were trapped in ignorance and fantasies about life that were fed to us by others. Now we know the truth.
Realizing how sick/twisted the whole system is... is heartbreaking. The overwhelming brainwashing and manipulation done to "program" all of us from early childhood... all merely to reinforce keeping "this" (life/existence) going... <gasp>.

And, the tragic thing is that these "mainstream robots" (the majority) those who programmed us — for the most part genuinely believe that they are "good people" and "in the right". They don't/can't see the other side = all the unnecessary friction/suffering produced... for no good purpose.

And, we all will die regardless anyway... It's so stupid!
 
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Dolunay

Dolunay

Member
Mar 16, 2021
38
That's an idea that has been haunting me for a while now, and I'm utterly tired of giving any further explanations to the people who tell me absurdities such as:
  • Life is a gift, learn how to appreciate it;
  • You should be grateful for the life you were given;
  • If you give up, you're a selfish coward.
Okay, allow me to order my thoughts a little bit.
So, yeah, I've never asked anyone to be born in the first place. Did anybody ask me if I wanted to exist before I was even born? No. Asking wasn't even possible anyway. It just happened as a consequence of somebody else's desire to give birth, to have their own kids "because that's what life is about, that's what gives life a meaning" (I cited my parents' thoughts, word by word). Who's selfish now? Most of the time I feel like a marionette that has been created without my consent or agreement just for the sake of rendering somebody else's lives more meaningful. There were so many other ways in which they could've achieved that meaningfulness and enriched their existence without having to condemn somebody else to the same destiny.

You know what's even more absurd? The fact that they hate life maybe even more than I do. They wake up in the morning, get dressed, go to their shitty workplace where they slowly destroy their bodies and souls, then get back home where they spend the few hours left taking care of our basic needs that are only meant to prolong our miserable existence. At the end of the day, they go to sleep and the next day they start over again. Every single day is the same, an alienating, never ending routine.

Oh, yes, of course, they didn't want me to have that kind of life. They wanted me to study, to have a promising future, a six-figure income and a comfortable living, so that's why they've sacrificed themselves. But doesn't this mean that they life through me? How can I deny to myself that I'm just an object meant to satisfy somebody else's need for approval and gratefulness?

How can I possibly want anything when I'm totally empty and I know that everything I do is only meant to make somebody else happy and proud of their hard work and sacrifices? The only wish that I have is to have never existed. I was blaming my horrendous traumas for destroying my life and for making me want to die, but deep down I believe that they only anticipated what I already knew but I was too scared to admit to myself, because I knew that once you get to the awareness that existence is pointless, there's no way back.

Maybe I can lie to everybody else and pretend that I'm grateful for everything that I was given, including life, but I can't lie to myself, because only I know how I feel about it.

Oh, and another paradox: they will tell you things like "You can do whatever you want, whatever makes you happy. You're free." but then when you say that the only thing that you'd want and that would make you happy is dying, they will tell you "No, that's not an option." Why would you tell me that I can do whatever I want if you limit my options to begin with? Can you see the hypocrisy that's literally swallowing this world and all its inhabitants?

To conclude, you're absolutely right. We were forced to all of this, we never gave our word and never could. Nobody will understand this, because they're so caught up in their own needs and desires that they will not see the struggles of those who are intelligent enough to figure out how things actually work and are not willing to become the next slaves, and then they have the audacity to tell us that we're selfish... Whatever! :)

There's a quote that I found a while ago that I adored and that summarizes very briefly my thoughts:
"And I declared that the dead, who had already died, are happier than the living, who are still alive. But better than both is the one who has never been born, who has not seen the evil that exists under the sun". - Ecclesiastes 4: 2-3
 
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profoundexperience

profoundexperience

You can feel the punishment but you cant commit ts
Jun 29, 2020
436
That's an idea that has been haunting me for a while now, and I'm utterly tired of giving any further explanations to the people who tell me absurdities such as:
  • Life is a gift, learn how to appreciate it;
  • You should be grateful for the life you were given;
  • If you give up, you're a selfish coward.
Okay, allow me to order my thoughts a little bit.
So, yeah, I've never asked anyone to be born in the first place. Did anybody ask me if I wanted to exist before I was even born? No. Asking wasn't even possible anyway. It just happened as a consequence of somebody else's desire to give birth, to have their own kids "because that's what life is about, that's what gives life a meaning" (I cited my parents' thoughts, word by word). Who's selfish now? Most of the time I feel like a marionette that has been created without my consent or agreement just for the sake of rendering somebody else's lives more meaningful. There were so many other ways in which they could've achieved that meaningfulness and enriched their existence without having to condemn somebody else to the same destiny.

You know what's even more absurd? The fact that they hate life maybe even more than I do. They wake up in the morning, get dressed, go to their shitty workplace where they slowly destroy their bodies and souls, then get back home where they spend the few hours left taking care of our basic needs that are only meant to prolong our miserable existence. At the end of the day, they go to sleep and the next day they start over again. Every single day is the same, an alienating, never ending routine.

Oh, yes, of course, they didn't want me to have that kind of life. They wanted me to study, to have a promising future, a six-figure income and a comfortable living, so that's why they've sacrificed themselves. But doesn't this mean that they life through me? How can I deny to myself that I'm just an object meant to satisfy somebody else's need for approval and gratefulness?

How can I possibly want anything when I'm totally empty and I know that everything I do is only meant to make somebody else happy and proud of their hard work and sacrifices? The only wish that I have is to have never existed. I was blaming my horrendous traumas for destroying my life and for making me want to die, but deep down I believe that they only anticipated what I already knew but I was too scared to admit to myself, because I knew that once you get to the awareness that existence is pointless, there's no way back.

Maybe I can lie to everybody else and pretend that I'm grateful for everything that I was given, including life, but I can't lie to myself, because only I know how I feel about it.

Oh, and another paradox: they will tell you things like "You can do whatever you want, whatever makes you happy. You're free." but then when you say that the only thing that you'd want and that would make you happy is dying, they will tell you "No, that's not an option." Why would you tell me that I can do whatever I want if you limit my options to begin with? Can you see the hypocrisy that's literally swallowing this world and all its inhabitants?

To conclude, you're absolutely right. We were forced to all of this, we never gave our word and never could. Nobody will understand this, because they're so caught up in their own needs and desires that they will not see the struggles of those who are intelligent enough to figure out how things actually work and are not willing to become the next slaves, and then they have the audacity to tell us that we're selfish... Whatever! :)

There's a quote that I found a while ago that I adored and that summarizes very briefly my thoughts:
"And I declared that the dead, who had already died, are happier than the living, who are still alive. But better than both is the one who has never been born, who has not seen the evil that exists under the sun". - Ecclesiastes 4: 2-3
Exactly.

You speak of paradoxes: "This" (life/existing) is literally the ultimate "Catch-22"... I can't imagine how to build a worse psychological "double-bind" to be in (that is, if you realize the truth* of what is really going on here).

Evolution has produced such a sublimely evil/irresolvable situation here: There is no plausible way to save/reform it... And, even if there were a way to make it into a "virtual-really paradise"... that would just end-up being the seeking of ever deeper fetishes and extremes (nothing to be proud of... nothing "worth it").

Intelligence only exists to "solve problems"... AND THE PROBLEMS ONLY EXIST BECAUSE THE INTELLIGENCE DOES! In the elemental universe, without sentient living beings, there are none of these "errors".

"Vanity of vanities... all is vanity." Although I do feel deep regret to say it, I think it's most likely that there's just really nothing worth saving here.

* I'm not claiming to absolutely know "the truth". I could be wrong and am always open to more evidence... but it does seem that some of us see a set of testable facts that most people (willfully or ignorantly) ignore.
 
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Dolunay

Dolunay

Member
Mar 16, 2021
38
Exactly.

You speak of paradoxes: "This" (life/existing) is literally the ultimate "Catch-22"... I can't imagine how to build a worse psychological "double-bind" to be in (that is, if you realize the truth* of what is really going on here).

Evolution has produced such a sublimely evil/irresolvable situation here: There is no plausible way to save/reform it... And, even if there were a way to make it into a "virtual-really paradise"... that would just end-up being the seeking of ever deeper fetishes and extremes (nothing to be proud of... nothing "worth it").

Intelligence only exists to "solve problems"... AND THE PROBLEMS ONLY EXIST BECAUSE THE INTELLIGENCE DOES! In the elemental universe, without sentient living beings, there are none of these "errors".

"Vanity of vanities... all is vanity." Although I do feel deep regret to say it, I think it's most likely that there's just really nothing worth saving here.

* I'm not claiming to absolutely know "the truth". I could be wrong and am always open to more evidence... but it does seem that some of us see a set of testable facts that most people (willfully or ignorantly) ignore.
You're reading my mind so beautifully! <3

We've been created so that we can destroy ourselves, and on top of that, we are given all the means to do so. The brain and intelligence that we have are only meant to accelerate this endeavor and, for some unlucky fellows like ourselves, to be aware of it. Everything is a paradox, including our own existence, but people tend to ignore these facts either because they're purposefully being blind, or because they are not intelligent enough to see beyond the thousands of filters that we've created to give humanity a false hope that there's a meaning and an order in this chaos.
 
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PlushieLover

PlushieLover

XII - THE HANGED MAN
Mar 24, 2021
118
Everything is an illusion.

But why?
Why do I feel these things?
Where does this emptiness come? Why does it hurt so much?
Why, we humans, believe that there is a reason to live, that we believe that we have a control of our life?
Why should I accept that?
Why would something like this happen?
What's happening?
Who I am?
Who are you?
Why is there an illusion of being someone?
Why does consciousness exist? Why does it hurt so much to stay alive?
Why do I care about anything? Why don't I care about anything? Why do I have to stay alive?

If committing suicide is being selfish then I am selfish.

Well I don't know, I'd like to be smart enough to understand life.

I suppose we made up everything and life is just an ilusion.
 
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profoundexperience

profoundexperience

You can feel the punishment but you cant commit ts
Jun 29, 2020
436
We've been created so that we can destroy ourselves
I think we're the product of blind, emergent phenomena... an outcome from the accretion of "bottoms-up" forces... not any "tops-down" mandate.

Maybe we'll destroy ourselves... or otherwise the universe will certainly do it for us (eventually). In either case, everything we create here will come to naught.

So, in the meantime, is there enough positive value in the experiences we're producing? I think there are clearly many more arguments against.
they're purposefully being blind
It's understandable why: It's terrifying to pull all the rugs out and turn everything upside-down.

Yet, the vast majority come nowhere near any truths (although they definitely think they know).
the thousands of filters that we've created to give humanity a false hope that there's a meaning
Life, is a type of "feedback loop" and has developed an "emergent" raison d'etre: Survival = to keep on going.

All those "filters" and all our most "cherished beliefs" are extensions of and reinforcements for survival.

It's not a "good/happy story".
 
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x_LittleAmy_x

x_LittleAmy_x

Student
Mar 18, 2021
197
NOT a responsibility. We are not deserters, we are not irresponsible. We don't owe the world a thing. We NEVER gave our word. The moment we were born, we were forced to exist without our consent. Now we are old enough to take our power back. As children, we were trapped in ignorance and fantasies about life that were fed to us by others. Now we know the truth. There's a cruelty to life. And only one way to truly end all of our pain forever. My suicidal prayer.
This is exactly why we should ask children if they want to enter the world before they are conceived
 
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profoundexperience

profoundexperience

You can feel the punishment but you cant commit ts
Jun 29, 2020
436
Everything is an illusion.

But why?
Why do I feel these things?
Where does this emptiness come? Why does it hurt so much?
Why, we humans, believe that there is a reason to live, that we believe that we have a control of our life?
Why should I accept that?
Why would something like this happen?
What's happening?
Who I am?
Who are you?
Why is there an illusion of being someone?
Why does consciousness exist? Why does it hurt so much to stay alive?
Why do I care about anything? Why don't I care about anything? Why do I have to stay alive?

If committing suicide is being selfish then I am selfish.

Well I don't know, I'd like to be smart enough to understand life.

I suppose we made up everything and life is just an ilusion.
Perfect!

Being intelligent (having the capacity to ask such questions... and probing for the answers) can never enhance one's "fun".

Intelligence and consciousness are — in a very real way — painful things to endure indeed.
 
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demuic

demuic

Life was a mistake
Sep 12, 2020
1,383
Intelligence only exists to "solve problems"... AND THE PROBLEMS ONLY EXIST BECAUSE THE INTELLIGENCE DOES! In the elemental universe, without sentient living beings, there are none of these "errors".
That is why I believe "life was a mistake."

I have loved this quote since I have seen other users mention it here on SS:
"Pleasure is never as pleasant as we expected it to be and pain is always more painful. The pain in the world always outweighs the pleasure. If you don't believe it, compare the respective feelings of two animals, one of which is eating the other."

The amount of agony that has been experienced by every living creature on earth from bacterium to ant to elephant to human being must be uncountable, and far exceeds any type of miniscule pleasure feeling experience, always short and eventually unsatisfying. Eventually, pleasure becomes numb and muted. It is why we are always seeking more and more in life and can never become satisfied. What was once the high feeling of happiness plateus into the new normal, and you must seek greater and greater highs in order to acheive the same satifaction you once felt. In that way, life is the most tragic of addictions.
 
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profoundexperience

profoundexperience

You can feel the punishment but you cant commit ts
Jun 29, 2020
436
compare the respective feelings of two animals, one of which is eating the other."
I read once (and damn... I wish I could find the reference!) that — statistically, virtually all the time, 24x7 — within 30 feet (10 meters) of every human being — a sentient creature is literally being "eaten alive".

E.g., just what do we think the spiders we see are doing?

And this shirt has been going-on, again 24x7x365x~500 MILLION YEARS... ALL OVER THE GOD DAMN WORLD!

Not a "good story" at all... any way you slice it.
And something it took me way too long to appreciate... The vast majority of our "pleasures" aren't actually "true positives"... but instead REDUCTIONS OF NEGATIVES (aka the lessening of some pre-existing suffering we already have): Quenching thirst or hunger is only "pleasurable" because it moves us back towards "a zero point" — THESE ARE NOT GOOD/TRUE/PURE PLEASURES at all!

All that's really happening here is that we're getting manipulated... played... screwed... and not by anything we can call "intelligent" or "caring"... but by a mere extension of chemistry... run amok.
 
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Sprite_Geist

Sprite_Geist

NULL
May 27, 2020
1,586
NOT a responsibility. We are not deserters, we are not irresponsible. We don't owe the world a thing.
To say that someone is responsible for their own life and choices means that they, and they alone, are in control and nobody else - this works both ways as well.

By this logic suicide, if not done impulsively or out of desperation, is very responsible because it gives an individual great control, and in turn responsibility, over their lives. In fact it is the only situation where we really are in control fully - if only for a short while. We cannot always make others change their minds - even if they are objectively wrong; we cannot make every abusive person vanish; we cannot always decide if somebody else likes or dislikes us - no matter how hard we try. Despite not having any influence in those example situations we still have the choice to remove ourselves from them. The ability to leave behind a world that we are powerless to fight against is power within itself.

You might have heard so-called "motivational" quotes such this: "If you're not happy with something then change it!" and this is exactly what suicide accomplishes. We cannot change everything in the reality around us, but we can change our own reality fully - by ending it. It is the closest that we can get to "free will" ...If it actually exists, but that is for another discussion.
 
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PrettyMoose

PrettyMoose

Eat my arse, Pain&Sh*tness & Mindf*ckitation Grift
Mar 1, 2020
280
To say that someone is responsible for their own life and choices means that they, and they alone, are in control and nobody else - this works both ways as well.

By this logic suicide, if not done impulsively or out of desperation, is very responsible because it gives an individual great control, and in turn responsibility, over their lives. In fact it is the only situation where we really are in control fully - if only for a short while. We cannot always make others change their minds - even if they are objectively wrong; we cannot make every abusive person vanish; we cannot always decide if somebody else likes or dislikes us - no matter how hard we try. Despite not having any influence in those example situations we still have the choice to remove ourselves from them. The ability to leave behind a world that we are powerless to fight against is power within itself.

You might have heard so-called "motivational" quotes such this: "If you're not happy with something then change it!" and this is exactly what suicide accomplishes. We cannot change everything in the reality around us, but we can change our own reality fully - by ending it. It is the closest that we can get to "free will" ...If it actually exists, but that is for another discussion.
Yes, this! I am often thinking that I don't have a lot of power in this life, but there are two things that I do have power over, and those two things are: whether or not I have kids, and when and how I die. I've been raised in a way that has indicated to me that I am not supposed to be my own individual, that I am simply an extension of parental wishes. I've been made to believe that children are something that just automatically happen regardless of how I feel about having them. I've been told that people who talk about suicide are not actually going to do it. To not have kids and to kill myself in the face of all of that brainwashing is a way to firmly establish my individuality that I have been denied. It's nice to know that I at least have power over something.
 
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R

Roseate

Arcanist
Mar 24, 2021
456
This is exactly why we should ask children if they want to enter the world before they are conceived
Even if we could, do you really believe they'd tell us the truth about the world? They would probably hide all the bad to convince us that life is the best. Basically like they've been doing for years.
 
x_LittleAmy_x

x_LittleAmy_x

Student
Mar 18, 2021
197
Even if we could, do you really believe they'd tell us the truth about the world? They would probably hide all the bad to convince us that life is the best. Basically like they've been doing for years.
Well I think it depends if you believe in reincarnation, as I do.
 
x_LittleAmy_x

x_LittleAmy_x

Student
Mar 18, 2021
197
How would that work in this scenario? How would the person ask? How would the kid respond?
So if you believe in reincarnation, as I do, this would mean that the spirit of a child exists before the child is conceived because they had a past life. A psychic could be used to ask the spirit of potential future children if they give their consent to enter the world. We wouldn't have to worry about anyone lying about what the world is like because they would have already lived in it so it's simply a question of whether they wish to return again.
 
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Meretlein

Meretlein

Moderator
Feb 15, 2019
1,199
That is why I believe "life was a mistake."

I have loved this quote since I have seen other users mention it here on SS:
"Pleasure is never as pleasant as we expected it to be and pain is always more painful. The pain in the world always outweighs the pleasure. If you don't believe it, compare the respective feelings of two animals, one of which is eating the other."

The amount of agony that has been experienced by every living creature on earth from bacterium to ant to elephant to human being must be uncountable, and far exceeds any type of miniscule pleasure feeling experience, always short and eventually unsatisfying. Eventually, pleasure becomes numb and muted. It is why we are always seeking more and more in life and can never become satisfied. What was once the high feeling of happiness plateus into the new normal, and you must seek greater and greater highs in order to acheive the same satifaction you once felt. In that way, life is the most tragic of addictions.

I believe that quote is from Schopenhauer's essay called "On the Sufferings of the World". It is one of my favorite philosophical writings.
 
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