Lawyer's opinion - mainly for Poles

[Rukia]

I asked a lawyer about this forum without mentioning its address, just described what is going on here....If you have further/additional questions PM I can ask further questions and it is included in the price but of course if connected with the topic...not about one's inheritance...

Poles, also can PM me I will send you excerpts from this opinion in Polish...
We are responsible according to Polish law, no matter where the severs/admins of this site are located...I am in the proccess of asking what about Polish ppl who live outside Poland, but doubt he will reply today...

So to sum up:
"In your case do not in any form advise or suggest in what way to commit such a deed, you should resign from discussion or firmly advise against such a deed."

One face up from 3 months to 5 years in prison ...if the person about to CTB is a minor or disabled - more...

I asked about cheering like wishing :Good luck" on CTB he said it is minor but better not to do it, delete such posts...

But:
There is no punishment for not inaction i.e not calling cops when somebody is about to execute CTB...not in Poland and he said not in the USA (but here ppl from USA I would ask your own lawyer to double check) DO NOT KNOW about other countries...

 

[Santiago]

Look up the People v. Beardsley case

And I quote from the Supreme Court:

"Had this been a case where two men under like circumstances had voluntarily gone on a debauch together and one had attempted suicide, no one would claim that this doctrine of legal duty could be invoked to hold the other criminally responsible for omitting to make effort to rescue his companion."

+ he is right about Polish laws

Art. 150. § 1. Whoever kills a human on his own request and driven by compassion towards him, shall be subject to the penalty of imprisonment for a term of between 3 months and 5 years. § 2. In special cases the court may impose an extraordinary mitigation of punishment or even forego the punishment.
Art. 151. Whoever by encouraging or help drives a human to a suicide, shall be subject to the penalty of imprisonment for a term of between 3 months and 5 years.

+ the US

Art. 228

1. A person who, attempts to aid suicide or generate homicide of consent under medical assisted suicide will face execution when found guilty.
2. It is an offence to help someone commit suicide or advise or encourage someone to commit suicide.
3. Killing a person on request, by using euthanasia, can be punished by up to an imprisonment term of up to 12 years.

Also when you are a Polish person outside of Poland you live by the laws of the country you live in

 

[Rukia]

Also when you are a Polish person outside of Poland you live by the laws of the country you live in

But I fear you can be prosecuted upon returning to Poland...I remember vaguely this case of Foreign Legion soldier in France who was prosecuted in Poland for joining the Legion which is obviuosly legal in France...

 

[Santiago]

But I fear you can be prosecuted upon returning to Poland...I remember vaguely this case of Foreign Legion soldier in France who was prosecuted in Poland for joining the Legion which is obviuosly legal in France...

It completely depends on the crime you committed and the countries that are involved. The main principle is that countries are sovereign and can decide for themselves. However some countries have bi-lateral extradition treaties between them.

I don't think any of that is really relevant to the case of illegal assisted suicide though. It's pretty much a law in every big and civilized country.
And even in those countries that seem to have loose suicide laws like Luxembourg or Belgium there are tons of articles in their law that could punish you for it

 

[Rukia]

But dont you think that this: "Whoever by encouraging or help drives a human to a suicide, shall be subject to the penalty of imprisonment for a term of between 3 months and 5 years. . " is gong on here on daily basis?

Or does help means only physically being there and not for example giving somebody recipe for cooking some poison?

And almost nobody seems very interested in the lawyer's opinion...Or am I mistaken? Everybody wants to CTB? He said that even cheering like wishing "Good luck"although minor is better not to be done...

 

[oopswronglife]

LIke anything with law enforcement it doesn't matter if you did it or not, you still have to fight the accusation if they take action against you. Even if all the reports so far are true it doesn't seem like anyone is being charged or criminalized. If they are after anyone they are after the supply line for drugs. Nobody here is doing anything evil like for example that girl who encouraged the guy by text message to CTB. She was convicted for this. We are just talking about our miserable lives. Even so it doesn't mean we are immune from being accused of something. So basic privacy should be followed obviously. It always makes me tense when I see people saying things like "Why should I care I have no life" or "What could they possibly do?" etc. Why take the risk?

 

[Santiago]

But dont you think that this: "Whoever by encouraging or help drives a human to a suicide, shall be subject to the penalty of imprisonment for a term of between 3 months and 5 years. . " is gong on here on daily basis?

Or does help means only physically being there and not for example giving somebody recipe for cooking some poison?

And almost nobody seems very interested in the lawyer's opinion...Or am I mistaken? Everybody wants to CTB? He said that even cheering like wishing "Good luck"although minor is better not to be done...

You are correct. What's going on here on a daily basis could definitely fit that description. However there is a big difference between formal crime and actual crime. People here (or atleast the people giving instructions & encouragement) know that what they are doing isn't allowed yet they still do because they know they will very likely not face any consequences.

Now if you do this in real life (for example giving a friend instructions) then your chances of getting sentenced are obviously way higher.

Many things on the internet aren't technically legal.

And that brings me back to my initial point I made in the please read thread a few days ago...with the way things are going it is just a matter of time before things go downhill for this site.

 

[Vidar33]

And almost nobody seems very interested in the lawyer's opinion...Or am I mistaken?

I appreciate your input!

 

[Santiago]

If you have any other questions feel free to ask or send a PM

 

[Rukia]

People here (or atleast the people giving instructions & encouragement) know that what they are doing isn't allowed yet they still do because they know they will very likely not face any consequences.

I am not so sure...that they know...I think that many want to CTB so dont care...in such a self destructive mode it is no wonder...

Dont you think that some cop who would devote his time could easily get promoted?

I appreciate your input!

Thank you ...:)

My big dream is that we do this for every country we are in...such a law compilation...

If you have any other questions feel free to ask or send a PM

What about other countries? Are there contries with stricter laws where incation is considered a crime when somebody is about to CTB i.e. you are obliged to call the cops?

 

[Santiago]

I assume most people here know that what they are doing isn't exactly legal. I do think they look a bit at it like downloading an illegal movie though. As in yes I am doing something that is technically wrong, but nothing will happen anyways.

As for some cop deciding to something. It's not that easy to catch and charge people on a website. We are all from different countries and on top of that there are things like privacy laws etc.... They will never put in all that effort

 

[Rukia]

Well, supposedly there is already an international police op against N buyers...

And here people are dying so it is not exactly like some movie downloading...

Maybe they will never put all that effort but I think we should do such a compilation of laws...

 

[Santiago]

The question about laws that require you to call the cops is a tough one. There is a common law concept called the duty to rescue.
This principe takes different shapes and forms depending on the country.

Most of the time it simply states you need to help somebody unless that would endanger yourself.

Well, supposedly there is already an international police op against N buyers...

And here people are dying so it is not exactly like some movie downloading...

Maybe they will never put all that effort but I think we should do such a compilation of laws...

The guy that said police told him they had an international plan going on with the US police was lying. It was clear and I honestly can't believe people are so naïve to believe that. As if they would set up this massive international plan and then leave without doing anything because his family said it was all ok.

Also it seems like you didn't understand my analogy with the movie. I didn't say it was the same, I said that is the way people look at it. They know police won't touch them.

A compilation of laws is useless. Law isn't black or white. There is a lot interpretation that gets involved. Once again there is a massive difference between formal and actual crime.

 

[Rukia]

The lawyer told me there is no punishment for not calling the cops in the case of somebody about to CTB in Poland and USA, there are cases when you are obliged to do so like murder for example...

Maybe it is similar to giving CPR it is a duty, isnt it?

 

[Santiago]

The lawyer told me there is no punishment for not calling the cops in the case of somebody about to CTB in Poland and USA, there are cases when you are obliged to do so like murder for example...

Maybe it is similar to giving CPR it is a duty, isnt it?

For murder, car accidents, etc... you are definitely obliged to yes.

Suicide I am not sure honestly. A lawyer could definitely make a case about it, but then it all depends on how the judge rules it. I wouldn't be able to tell you.

Take Argentina's duty to rescue for example:

"a person who endangers the life or health of another, either by putting a person in jeopardy or abandoning to their fate a person unable to cope alone who must be cared for ... will be imprisoned for between 2 and 6 years"

There is definitely a case to be made to say suicide fits that description.

 

[Rukia]

Wow...

And what about people passing messages from A? Is it illegal?

 

[Santiago]

Wow...

And what about people passing messages from A? Is it illegal?

Once again though I am not sure if suicide de facto fits that description. Part of me doubts it does, but I am not sure.

What do you mean with passing messages?

 

[Rukia]

Well they say A is back and taking orders or sth like this...I think it is some form of cooperation with illegal substance trafficking...but maybe I am mistaken...

 

[Menschenfeind]

The statement fits the euthanasia regulation in poland:

Spoiler: Euthanasia

(automated translation from the german wikipedia page, since the english one doesn't contain such a table -> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterbehilfe)

 

[Santiago]

Well they say A is back and taking orders or sth like this...I think it is some form of cooperation with illegal substance trafficking...but maybe I am mistaken...

Well yeah obviously ordering an illegal substance is well...illegal

 

[Rukia]

Maybe I will link the other thread with some legal info too:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...bout-the-laws-when-it-comes-to-suicide.19316/

@Menschenfeind I fear if someone decides to take action not only Poles will be in troubles, maybe should change the title...but not sure if I can do it now...

Well yeah obviously ordering an illegal substance is well...illegal

Thanks for all the replies...and for patience with me...

So you dont believe in this international op against N buyers...more ppl reported a raid...@deathenvoy was banned or self banned dont know....

 

[Menschenfeind]

@Menschenfeind I fear if someone decides to take action not only Poles will be in troubles, maybe should change the title...but not sure if I can do it now...

That's right. If poland is now in trouble too, the spread possibility to germany is not that far away. I'm prepared.

 

[Santiago]

Maybe I will link the other thread with some legal info too:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...bout-the-laws-when-it-comes-to-suicide.19316/

@Menschenfeind I fear if someone decides to take action not only Poles will be in troubles, maybe should change the title...but not sure if I can do it now...





Thanks for all the replies...and for patience with me...

So you dont believe in this international op against N buyers...more ppl reported a raid...@deathenvoy was banned or self banned dont know....

No problem. And no I don't believe it at all. I do believe some people got caught by the police because they weren't being careful with their purchases.

One last advice I can give about this whole law thing is that there is no point in trying to find answers for every possible scenario. Trust me the law doesn't work like that. It's best you just focus on yourself and your own situation and make sure you don't do anything you aren't comfortable with. I am sure you don't need a law to tell you it is illegal to encourage suicide, you already know that :)

 

[Rukia]

Yes, but I am worried about people who may not know this...And for now what is done is done no mass content deletion :( So those who encouraged even if would ban themselves are in danger of being prosecuted...

 

[Santiago]

Yes, but I am worried about people who may not know this...And for now what is done is done no mass content deletion :( So those who encouraged even if would ban themselves are in danger of being prosecuted...

I am sure they do know. Everyone knows and feels it is morally wrong to encourage a suicidal person. In that sense if you feel something is morally wrong it is very likely a legal offence.

De facto it is very unlikely they will get prosecuted

 

[Rukia]

If thats enough to keep you calm...reliance on inertia of the police...I am glad didnt encourage anybody...

I would bet that not everybody knows the laws...

 

[Santiago]

If thats enough to keep you calm...reliance on inertia of the police...I am glad didnt encourage anybody...

I would bet that not everybody knows the laws...

You would be surprised how many things in life are de jure illegal, but people still do them without any consequences.

I would be extremely surprised if somebody told me they thought encouraging a suicidal person was allowed.

 

[Rukia]

Some do without consequences, some dont...

Maybe people think that what is legal depends on the site location, I dont know...and maybe you are right...

When I joined I was actively suicidal so didnt think about it...Maybe I will be banned for this topic but I did this in the interest of community...

Many people cease to be suicidal and are left with incriminating posts...with no way of deleting them...

 

[Intelligent Ape]

Something may be illegal by law. But it isn't necessary means that the high risk of the punishment exists. Some laws are only laws on a paper without the real law enforcement. You may search in your local news or (what is preferable) in the online base of criminal courts decisions about these cases and draw a conclusion.

 

[Rukia]

I only want that people will be aware of those risks...And it depends on the person...
I try to be law abiding citizen..wouldnt want incriminating posts being there in the Internet just waiting for some bored cop :(