Lack of socialization as a reason for CTB

[DesperateOne]

I'm convinced that this world is all about relationships and socialization. I've come to the conclusion that if you aren't at least OK at this, you are pretty much doomed. If you grew up without friends or missed out on key social milestones, then good luck to you! God forbid that one lived an isolated or even hikikomori lifestyle for more than a few years during upbringing or even late teenage years...

There are these subtle nuances, checks and complexities in a conversation that get more and more mature as you grow up. You're fucked if you don't know those things or don't have any of the achievements that come with that. I've seen the clip where Jordan Peterson talked about how it is absolutely crucial that kids get well socialized before the age of 4. If they lack the socialization aspect or completely miss out on it then they are bound for a life of incredible suffering (isolation, crime, suicidality, loneliness etc...) whereas their peers will continue to socialize and advance, which all snowballs into adulthood.

In video game terms, if you are stuck at level 4 you can't really hang out with level 30's. Sure, you can talk to them and even go through experiences together, but at its core they are a lot more advanced and don't want anything to do with you. So, all you can do is make these acquaintances and delude yourself into thinking that you are a part of the group and on the same level as them, meanwhile they hang out with you just to kill some time or out of pity which is even more terrible. You can distract yourself with passions and things that you love doing, but since we are social creatures that can only work for a limited amount of time.

So in essence if you live an isolated lifestyle during your upbringing or missed out on those key social development experiences, you are looking down a road of severe hardship/suffering that encompasses way more than the suffering of your average human being.

Does anyone here relate or experience any of this or am I too pessimistic/doomer about it?

 

[Namarupa]

I don't really care about making friends/building relationships, I just wish normies wouldn't persecute me.

 

[DesperateOne]

I don't really care about making friends/building relationships, I just wish normies wouldn't persecute me.

I feel like this is just a cope... I had a similar style of thought before, but I realized that it was just my trauma and bad/lack of socialization experiences from the past. In reality below all of this shit that's in my head I crave a solid relationship. I've been alone for way too long...

 

[lemonbunny]

I think ur right, sadly. I went to school and all, but I never got ahold of those nuances and checks that everyone else seemed so natural at. And I don't think I ever will, sadly.

At a certain point you realize that socializing isn't supposed to be this hard. It shouldn't seem like a complex equation with so many variables that it takes a genius to figure out. The people around you aren't necessarily smarter (also, i think JP at one point said something about extroverted=smarter which kinda contradicts this? idk), they're just acting on instinct because they've been well socialized, unlike you.

It's more objective than doomer, I think. It's not placing the blame on anybody, just telling it like it is. Doesn't mean that people shouldn't aim to be more compassionate, though. We tend to be the scapegoats for the less mature bunch.

 

[Namarupa]

I feel like this is just a cope... I had a similar style of thought before, but I realized that it was just my trauma and bad/lack of socialization experiences from the past. In reality below all of this shit that's in my head I crave a solid relationship. I've been alone for way too long...

I think I understand where you might be coming from, but relationships always end up feeling unsatisfying and/or incomplete. The few happy moments I can recall from my life always came from when I was enjoying my solitude in peace.

 

[Nofuture1234]

I've lost almost all interest in socializing or even speaking out loud IRL because it's pointless for me as an ugly autstic short man. No women will ever genuinely want me for anything other than my resources and I don't enjoy being mocked or jestering for people who look down on me, so there is zero point. I actually dislike making other people happy or making them laugh now, because I know that's the best I can get, laughter. Not respect or desire or attraction.
If I was attractive and tall socializing would be a positive experience for me, it wouldn't feel like such an exhausting chore even when people aren't being directly rude.

 

[DesperateOne]

I've lost almost all interest in socializing or even speaking out loud IRL because it's pointless for me as an ugly autstic short man. No women will ever genuinely want me for anything other than my resources and I don't enjoy being mocked or jestering for people who look down on me, so there is zero point. I actually dislike making other people happy or making them laugh now, because I know that's the best I can get, laughter. Not respect or desire or attraction.
If I was attractive and tall socializing would be a positive experience for me, it wouldn't feel like such an exhausting chore even when people aren't being directly rude.

I find that looks only go to a certain extent and trust me, I am not deluded and I've seen the studies that show how people treat ugly men vs good looking men. Looks are super important for first impressions, getting jobs, getting people to like you faster, knocking down girls on the first night, but at the end of the day people get used to that. If behind those looks you have no social experiences, no solid achievements/goals or your personality sucks people will run away from you very quickly.

I only say this to make a point, but I was and I think still am (even after all of this weight gain) a really good looking guy. I was blessed with an amazing jawline, 185cm, decent hair and if I put some effort into how I dressed I got looks and praises from both genders. However, I have no personality and social experiences, so people realized that very quickly and started looking me in a different light.

Again, in human society looks are very important, but not and end all be all. I've seen plently of genuinely ugly overweight dudes somehow pulling chicks that are very attractive. Majority of it really is confidence and knowing how to roll through all kinds of social dynamics.

Btw, I know this has been said to you probably a thousand times, but if you are a guy thats 4/10, I genuinely think that you can bump that up by two or even three points if you start taking care of yourself. So that means hitting the gym, working on confidence, dressing your for your part/age, taking care of your hair/face etc...

 

[dogbreath]

no yeah socialization is really important,,,, as a child I was a loner and cause of that i never really learned social cues or how to create conversation how to treat people etc etc....im fucked now cause im aboutta graduate college and i havent networked at all or made any friends cause idk how to interact with ppl,, cant even get a job cause of how scared and antisocial i am... read somewhere that humans are inherently social creatures which sucks cause I wish there was an option to live without ever needing to interact with anyone and feeling ok with that,,, and i know its possible to improve confidence by like going to the gym eating well dressing well but,,,i am stubborn, i dont want to change i dont want to make an effort will just sit here and rot

 

[whotookmylexapro]

I can see where u are coming from in a way. I think its a lil different for me. I have schizoid disorder and lack the desire for most companionships. Any time i get the chance to interact, its never how i imagine, or desire it to be. I dont know if its my problem or people dont like me but i just dont care for these basic friendships i make at work, college, etc. all it consists of is talking about our work, what we did on the weekend, and just interesting things about each other. My life is no where near eventful as there's and i dont want it to be.

I maladaptive daydream a lot, i dont know if thats a coping mechanism but i can derive much more enjoyment in my own thoughts and imaginations than any person could offer. 90% of my thoughts are maladaptive daydreams, thinking about my own stories, my drawings, music etc.

I do feel bad for those who lack the companionship they desire tho. I relate to people just hanging out with you because theyre bored or pity you, and you cant relate to them on the same level. But for me i dont take it negatively. I love my own little world ive built for myself and dont want anyone else.

 

[SexyIncél]

Does anyone here relate or experience any of this or am I too pessimistic/doomer about it?

A bit pessimistic, but fundamentally insightful. You don't have intuition for social logics. But I believe you can learn enough anthropology & philosophy to do it consciously... as well as practice conversation like one might practice poetry

I could go into specifics about this, if you'd like. "Anthropology & philosophy" is broad & thus full of time-wasters. I'm imagining specific parts

Also, it's important to learn pitfalls. So you don't make mistakes that damage you significantly

Fortunately, you're not so far behind. Probably most team up insanely dysfunctionaly, or at least suboptimally. Stops them from linking up more deeply

 

[ijustwishtodie]

I relate and I fully agree with you. Socialisation and having a good personality is essential for having a decent quality of life. Many people don't really realise this as they can already socialise decently. However, if your social skills are below average, you will struggle in making friendships as well as with a job. I wish that this world wasn't so contingent on socialisation but unfortunately it is and, because of this, I should die as early as possible so that I don't have to suffer for any longer trying to socialise with others

 

[Nofuture1234]

I find that looks only go to a certain extent and trust me, I am not deluded and I've seen the studies that show how people treat ugly men vs good looking men. Looks are super important for first impressions, getting jobs, getting people to like you faster, knocking down girls on the first night, but at the end of the day people get used to that. If behind those looks you have no social experiences, no solid achievements/goals or your personality sucks people will run away from you very quickly.

I only say this to make a point, but I was and I think still am (even after all of this weight gain) a really good looking guy. I was blessed with an amazing jawline, 185cm, decent hair and if I put some effort into how I dressed I got looks and praises from both genders. However, I have no personality and social experiences, so people realized that very quickly and started looking me in a different light.

Again, in human society looks are very important, but not and end all be all. I've seen plently of genuinely ugly overweight dudes somehow pulling chicks that are very attractive. Majority of it really is confidence and knowing how to roll through all kinds of social dynamics.

Btw, I know this has been said to you probably a thousand times, but if you are a guy thats 4/10, I genuinely think that you can bump that up by two or even three points if you start taking care of yourself. So that means hitting the gym, working on confidence, dressing your for your part/age, taking care of your hair/face etc...

You have way more incentive to socialize when you know you will be treated well for your looks, and your social mistakes won't be seen as severely
Those ugly dudes all probably either have gold digger/green card situations going on or their partners are cheating or just plain resent them. Even the ugliest girls know always have it in the back of their mind they deserve better no matter who they're with thanks to social media.
I have heard it a thousand times, im sure you mean well but the world is a very different place now. You can't increase height significantly enough, I'm 5'9 and that completely disqualifies me, you have to be taller than men around you not just taller than her. I could get surgery but it would be months of excruciating pain, only get me a couple more inches max, my body would be weirdly proportioned and if the women somehow found out she would lose respect and leave in a heartbeat.

 

[DesperateOne]

no yeah socialization is really important,,,, as a child I was a loner and cause of that i never really learned social cues or how to create conversation how to treat people etc etc....im fucked now cause im aboutta graduate college and i havent networked at all or made any friends cause idk how to interact with ppl,, cant even get a job cause of how scared and antisocial i am... read somewhere that humans are inherently social creatures which sucks cause I wish there was an option to live without ever needing to interact with anyone and feeling ok with that,,, and i know its possible to improve confidence by like going to the gym eating well dressing well but,,,i am stubborn, i dont want to change i dont want to make an effort will just sit here and rot

Although our experiences are different and you at least went through college, I feel the same way. When I talk to people its so bad man... Its like rubbing styrofoam or crayon on a green board. People instantly feel like something is wrong. I can get past some small talk maybe, but as soon as it requires you to open up, show your personality etc... I just shut down. This is no way to live and honestly screw my parents for not doing anything about it. When I started shutting myself in and not socializing they should've done something about it, but instead this went on for years and I'm completely fucked now...

You know what? This is going to sound sad, but I can't wait for AI girlfriends. I just want to talk to someone and practise these skills. I think once they start rolling out realistic models its going to blow up amongst people like me or even normal people. Replika had 2 million active users at one point which is kinda nutty for a very mediocre product.

 

[Trakehner]

I've never had good social skills. As a child, it didn't bother me. As I got older, I just became the weird loner everybody hates. A few people would talk to me out of pity, but that was the extent of my "friendships". I feel so behind in life. I spend most days in my room alone meanwhile other people my age are advancing in life. As a human, there is a natural desire for interpersonal relationships and connection. However, I can't relate to most people due to my lack of "normal experiences". I've been let down, persecuted, and abandoned too many times and am sick of being vulnerable to whatever bullshit comes with social interaction. It's easier to just isolate and try to ignore my emotions. My life is sad and lonely and I'll probably die alone too. I've kind of made peace with that.

 

[SexyIncél]

You have way more incentive to socialize when you know you will be treated well for your looks, and your social mistakes won't be seen as severely
Those ugly dudes all probably either have gold digger/green card situations going on or their partners are cheating or just plain resent them. Even the ugliest girls know always have it in the back of their mind they deserve better no matter who they're with thanks to social media.
I have heard it a thousand times, im sure you mean well but the world is a very different place now. You can't increase height significantly enough, I'm 5'9 and that completely disqualifies me, you have to be taller than men around you not just taller than her. I could get surgery but it would be months of excruciating pain, only get me a couple more inches max, my body would be weirdly proportioned and if the women somehow found out she would lose respect and leave in a heartbeat.

Yeah, I do agree guys need to recover some relationship bargaining power. Surprised to hear 5'9 is a problem; maybe you could grab subtle shoe lifts from amazon & experiment in the field to see if it actually makes a difference?

It's ironic that women'd disrespect a guy with the equivalent of high heels, makeup, boob jobs, lip fillers, etc. Though at least hair & muscle-enhancers are socially accepted, due to mainstream ads & such

But looks are only 1 dimension. (For more info, worth checking out: Orion Taraban, Fresh&Fit, Alexander Grace, Casey Zander)

 

[Aim]

Yeppsipeppsi, know this feeling also all to well. To unstable inside to even be capable of building a solid healthy relationship anymore.

 

[Nofuture1234]

Yeah, I do agree guys need to recover some relationship bargaining power. Surprised to hear 5'9 is a problem; maybe you could grab subtle shoe lifts from amazon & experiment in the field to see if it actually makes a difference?

It's ironic that women'd disrespect a guy with the equivalent of high heels, makeup, boob jobs, lip fillers, etc. Though at least hair & muscle-enhancers are socially accepted, due to mainstream ads & such

But looks are only 1 dimension. (For more info, worth checking out: Orion Taraban, Fresh&Fit, Alexander Grace, Casey Zan

Even the most obese women can get hundreds of suitors just by downloading an app, not even a dating app, any social media app. And since many of them naively believe they can lock down supermodels for more than a night, why would they settle for anything less than perfect? Even if it's not especially important to them their date towers over them, their friends and social media feeds will mock them relentlessly and constantly remind them they "deserve" better.
They may be only 1 dimension but they are the one that matters most by far. You need looks to even get in the door and show any other qualities and at the end of the day healthy relationships require genuine attraction.
Humans are silly in how we think our mating instincts are any more advanced than any animal's. "Love" is just when you happen to also like your mate as a person. But they have to be attracted to your body first.
As for lifts, how am I going to explain having shoes on all the time? Women are also so obsessed with height now it wouldn't surprise me if they teach each other how to detect "cheating" like this...in push-up bras under 5 pounds of make up and filters.

 

[SexyIncél]

They may be only 1 dimension but they are the one that matters most by far. You need looks to even get in the door and show any other qualities and at the end of the day healthy relationships require genuine attraction.

Yeah, I agree lookism's definitely a thing. Without looks, one typically must jump extra hoops. I don't like my own lookism; it's obviously in my best interest to be attracted to the broadest feasible range of appearances

As for lifts, how am I going to explain having shoes on all the time? Women are also so obsessed with height now it wouldn't surprise me if they teach each other how to detect "cheating" like this...in push-up bras under 5 pounds of make up and filters.

I just meant time-limited experiments. And if some rando catches you, you could just smirk & say you were just playing Undercover Anthropologist, testing how many gals are really that superficial/hypocritical. If she gets annoying about it: back to the streets she goes

I'll ask around, but I find it incredibly unlikely gals know to detect such things. Most apparently don't even know wtf a passport bro is, last I heard

 

[Nofuture1234]

Yeah, I agree lookism's definitely a thing. Without looks, one typically must jump extra hoops. I don't like my own lookism; it's obviously in my best interest to be attracted to the broadest feasible range of appearances


I just meant time-limited experiments. And if some rando catches you, you could just smirk & say you were just playing Undercover Anthropologist, testing how many gals are really that superficial/hypocritical. If she gets annoying about it: back to the streets she goes, with the rest of the hoes, schmoes & bozos

I'll ask around, but I find it incredibly unlikely gals know to detect such things. Most apparently don't even know wtf a passport bro is, last I heard

The problem is these tricks don't last, and don't result in anything resembling the fairy tale lie of 'love' that's been drilled into my head since childhood. The fact is me as I am, or even post-looksmaxing/plastic surgery/etc will never be genuinely desired or 'loved'. 'Love' is for women only, and their job in modern times is to pick the most physically desirable from likely hundreds of potential suitors who come to them through their smartphones. They base their choices in reality on who ever has the physical traits that most A: Trigger primitive sexual submission and breeding instinct and B: will grant them the most social status among their peers when they show him off.
A 5'9 autist with a busted face will never work for them unless he is giving them large amounts of money, and even that is not enough for them to make a serious effort to disguise their disgust and resentment; because every woman born after 1980 has been told by pop culture, politics, movies and their female family and teachers since birth they are an oppressed princess who deserves only the very, very best. They will always fucking hate your guts if you're not that, and most will barely even bother to hide it. Truly handsome men don't get 'shit-tested'. They don't get nagged literally all the time. At worst she'll complain if he beats her especially bad that day. Not trying to sound too bitter because I'm aware I'm brainwashed and programmed too to belive in equally idiotic ideas like love and fairness and equality and heaven and hell. But a gold digger/green card relationship would make me as happy the same way non-alcoholic beer would make a grizzled old homeless alcoholic with his shriveled liver literally hanging out of his asshole like a rum-stinking dingleberry.

 

[SexyIncél]

Truly handsome men don't get 'shit-tested'. They don't get nagged literally all the time. At worst she'll complain if he beats her especially bad that day.

Unfortunately, it seems even the prettyboys get shit-tested. The male experience of average gals is probably one where you're subjected to endless tests. (One reason why men underestimate their own beauty)

To my knowledge, there's 2 main ways to counter this fate, for longer-term relationships:

1. Find a unicorn... that is, a fairly rare non-consumerist gal with some fucking integrity
2. Have greater bargaining power. Occasionally signal that she's easily replaceable & you've got optionality. Try to have enough wealth to maintain side-chicks. Don't live with her, so she can't see your weaknesses

It's apparently like running a company. The job market is full of non-passionate untrustworthy randos who want a job. Good ones tend to be snapped up fast. If you show a moment of weakness, that's like watching one's CEO crying — employees will start polishing their CVs. When they want a new job, they secure it first before quitting

At worst she'll complain if he beats her especially bad that day.

I realized why that sorta thing happens. S&M is far more pervasive than people think; it's a fundamental social logic. Not just a kink

Not trying to sound too bitter because I'm aware I'm brainwashed and programmed too to belive in equally idiotic ideas like love and fairness and equality and heaven and hell.

Yep, we're lied to. People say the red pill's hard to swallow; there's a growling choking noise, when a guy finds out how fooled he's been. Can turn black pill & you can't stop choking

 

[Nofuture1234]

Unfortunately, it seems even the prettyboys get shit-tested. The male experience of average gals is probably one where you're subjected to endless tests. (One reason why men underestimate their own beauty)

To my knowledge, there's 2 main ways to counter this fate, for longer-term relationships:

1. Find a unicorn... that is, a fairly rare non-consumerist gal with some fucking integrity
2. Have greater bargaining power. Occasionally signal that she's easily replaceable & you've got optionality. Try to have enough wealth to maintain side-chicks. Don't live with her, so she can't see your weaknesses

It's apparently like running a company. The job market is full of non-passionate untrustworthy randos who want a job. Good ones tend to be snapped up fast. If you show a moment of weakness, that's like watching one's CEO crying — employees will start polishing their CVs. When they want a new job, they secure it first before quitting


I realized why that sorta thing happens. S&M is far more pervasive than people think; it's a fundamental social logic. Not just a kink


Yep, we're lied to. People say the red pill's hard to swallow; there's a growling choking noise, when a guy finds out how fooled he's been. Can turn black & you can't stop choking

I've opted to just avoid women completely for my own sake. Unicorns don't exist, they're all taken by others, according to actual teachers even 5 years old girls are already requested hypersexual ghetto shit like "pound town" for their stupid little ballet classes, they've already been ran through and settled for before they're even legal now, none of them are dreaming of 'midget' autists like myself.
This goes way deeper than S&M but the phenomenon will never be really investigated in good faith by scientists, feminists would never allow it. The reality is men women don't want to sleep with for a causal dreamboat encounter are completely expendable to our current 'society' and there is nothing I can do to change that. It's more than being lied to. It's like being programmed the sun is orange and down is up. There is no salvation for men like me but death. This will never even be acknowledged outside of niche forums like this and I hey even this post will be seen as hyperbolic or delusional even by those in the same boat as me. How ironic. Funny.

 

[Myforevercharlie]

Wow....as a female I'm really appalled by how some people here think about women.

Not going to explain again, this topic has been talked about here many times. But I will say that most females aren't very attracted to guys who think we're all shallow airheads who only care about appearance and status.

 

[Morte]

I only say this to make a point, but I was and I think still am (even after all of this weight gain) a really good looking guy. I was blessed with an amazing jawline, 185cm, decent hair and if I put some effort into how I dressed I got looks and praises from both genders.

If you are privileged then you have no reason to talk about those who are not.

Looks are important at all stages of social relationships, not just the first impression. People always expect much more charisma and content from those who are uglier.

Funny everyone I see trying to diminish the importance of a privilege is exactly the privileged ones. People only truly recognize how important a privilege is when they lose it or live their entire lives suffering because of Its absense

 

[ChiseHatori]

I was pulled out of school due to bullying from an early age (the end of elementary school) and I was basically raised by myself and the internet. You can very clearly see how that turned out for me.

 

[DesperateOne]

If you are privileged then you have no reason to talk about those who are not.

Looks are important at all stages of social relationships, not just the first impression. People always expect much more charisma and content from those who are uglier.

Funny everyone I see trying to diminish the importance of a privilege is exactly the privileged ones. People only truly recognize how important a privilege is when they lose it or live their entire lives suffering because of Its absense

Yeah, looking at what I wrote there I did come off like a cunt... I think you are right, maybe saying that was insensitive. My experience is that majority of people who say that, aren't even that bad looking, and even if they really are hideous they could easily bump up their looks to average if they just worked on themselves physically and mentally (GYM, clothing, confidence, skin care, having a job/drivers license etc...).

The ugliness in my opinion comes from years of society treating you like shit and you thinking that you are trapped in that state. That gets reflected in the way you act, talk and dress, but that can be transcended with the right mindset.

Take a look at this guy, he is objectively not attractive and could even be considered below average by a lot people. He has thinning long hair, nerdy glasses and a very bad jawline. He thought in the first video that he was completely doomed for eternity. A few years passed and he got himself a girlfriend (now his wife). In his newer videos he seems at least 2x more attractive looks/confidence wise and just moved out with his partner to a new apartment...

Incels are raging in the comments, but all they have to do is put in the work and they are bound to succeed as well. If you aren't super socially stunted, but ugly then your future looks bright in terms of at least finding a partner and losing virginity (staying together with that person is another story). Christ, even men who are without body parts or have their face disfigured end up getting a partner.

 

[SonderintheSand]

I think that people who believe in such platitudes reveals their greatest insecurity. For example, an overweight person might say that society is all about being 'perfect' physically. The rational approach isn't always cope. Sometimes people prosper and prevail through how one-dimensional our society can be.

 

[Nofuture1234]

If you are privileged then you have no reason to talk about those who are not.

Looks are important at all stages of social relationships, not just the first impression. People always expect much more charisma and content from those who are uglier.

Funny everyone I see trying to diminish the importance of a privilege is exactly the privileged ones. People only truly recognize how important a privilege is when they lose it or live their entire lives suffering because of Its absense

Exactly. The world would be a better place if ugliness/unchangable physical inadequacies were just treated the same as other disabilities and sympathized with accordingly, instead of us being lied to we have the same chance as everyone else and that people's instinctual negative responses to traits we can't control were our fault for being born with them.
And then we're considered 'superficial' even if we only care about our appearance because it directly effects how people treat us. Even in non-romantic situations.
Everyone has to play along with the Disney narrative now though because if you don't you're completely ostracized by those who either need to believe it to get through the day or benefit from the way things are now

Yeah, looking at what I wrote there I did come off like a cunt... I think you are right, maybe saying that was insensitive. My experience is that majority of people who say that, aren't even that bad looking, and even if they really are hideous they could easily bump up their looks to average if they just worked on themselves physically and mentally (GYM, clothing, confidence, skin care, having a job/drivers license etc...).

The ugliness in my opinion comes from years of society treating you like shit and you thinking that you are trapped in that state. That gets reflected in the way you act, talk and dress, but that can be transcended with the right mindset.

Take a look at this guy, he is objectively not attractive and could even be considered below average by a lot people. He has thinning long hair, nerdy glasses and a very bad jawline. He thought in the first video that he was completely doomed for eternity. A few years passed and he got himself a girlfriend (now his wife). In his newer videos he seems at least 2x more attractive looks/confidence wise and just moved out with his partner to a new apartment...

Incels are raging in the comments, but all they have to do is put in the work and they are bound to succeed as well. If you aren't super socially stunted, but ugly then your future looks bright in terms of at least finding a partner and losing virginity (staying together with that person is another story). Christ, even men who are without body parts or have their face disfigured end up getting a partner.

Anyone who actually looked into this knows she just took the money and flew back to where she lived before. It wasn't a real relationship
And one who is treated like shit for traits they can't control doesn't really have any incentive to be better and socialize more. They're just going to get more of the same if they do.

 

[SexyIncél]

Anyone who actually looked into this knows she just took the money and flew back to where she lived before. It wasn't a real relationship

Interesting, what's the source? I saw some youtube comments to that effect, but no evidence. Then again, NeverGiveUp only shows us the most manicured view. Turns out, Destiny & Melina's relationship was WAY more fucked up than they let on. Ditto Neon & Sam Frank

NeverGiveUp replied to a poster: "Yeh, i dont really care about the opinion of people using the pill analogies. Its the equivalent as taking a flat earther serious."

WTF? I care about women, so I studied the feminisms. (Anarchafeminism, black feminism, liberal feminism...) But many people make fun of the pills, because they don't give a shit about men & are proudly ignorant

Black feminist bell hooks said it all: "Nowadays I am amazed that women who advocate feminist politics have had so little to say about men and masculinity. [...] Feminist thinkers, like myself, who wanted to include men in the discussion were usually labeled male-identified and dismissed. We were "sleeping with the enemy." We were the feminists who could not be trusted because we cared about the fate of men."

 

[DesperateOne]

Anyone who actually looked into this knows she just took the money and flew back to where she lived before. It wasn't a real relationship
And one who is treated like shit for traits they can't control doesn't really have any incentive to be better and socialize more. They're just going to get more of the same if they do.

Are you just straight up lying or did that actually happen?

Turns out, Destiny & Melina's relationship was WAY more fucked up than they let on.

Happens. His case is special since they were both very very unordinary people in a very uncommon relationship style.

 

[SexyIncél]

Happens. His case is special since they were both very very unordinary people in a very uncommon relationship style.

Sure. My only point is that we don't know wtf goes on behind closed doors. Such youtubers are at best sophists. They lack the philosophical/scientific skepticism to ruthlessly critique themselves

And is NeverGiveUp a common case? He has 290K subscribers; presumably at least one would have romantic interest in him. Indeed, Orion Taraban advises guys to display "visible competence", as he does

I hope NeverGiveUp found someone who genuinely cares about him, in a long term way. This is the first time I've heard about them, but I get the impression they married very rapidly after meeting each other (?). Even if he were completely transparent, it'd take time for us to observe the mechanisms play out

Too soon to use as a case study. And I think it's unnecessary; guys who aren't conventionally slick/handsome can certainly be in relationships. They just have more hoops. Sometimes the bluepill actually works. The other pills are when you're less lucky