M

mediocre

trapped here
Nov 9, 2019
1,441
Why is he the democratic nominee for president? You had 16 other candidates that were coherent and could actually speak in sentences. You had candidates who didn't have a sketchy record. You had candidates who didn't push the Iraq war. You had candidates who were talking about real issues. You had candidates pushing for real change. Out of all of them he is the weakest. Just my opinion.

ok maybe he beats Trump... then what? What does he do for 4 years? He doesn't have any policies that are different or will lead to any change. I don't think he even knows what his policies are.

just why?! can someone explain this to me? I'm not an American.
 
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CynicalHopelessness

CynicalHopelessness

Messenger of Silence
Jan 9, 2020
940
Not an American either, so take it with a grain of salt, but it seems to me that Joe "nothing will fundamentally change" Biden is a perfect candidate for the dynamic you can observe in the American history since cold war times:

nziof1r.jpg
 
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Soul

Soul

gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha
Apr 12, 2019
4,704
Um ... Trump is the one with no policy proposals. If you want to know Biden's, look them up on his site.

He's not my favourite Democrat but he's the one who gained the most delegates in the primaries. That's how candidates are chosen. I think he has a very good chance of winning. I wish he'd pick Michelle Obama as his running mate.
 
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M

mediocre

trapped here
Nov 9, 2019
1,441
Um ... Trump is the one with no policy proposals. If you want to know Biden's, look them up on his site.

He's not my favourite Democrat but he's the one who gained the most delegates in the primaries. That's how candidates are chosen. I think he has a very good chance of winning. I wish he'd pick Michelle Obama as his running mate.
when did I say Trump had policy proposals?! I'm not a Trump supporter which you seem to assume.

I'm just interested in US politics and why people seem to vote for the establishment candidate every time instead of people pushing for real change. That's all... not trying to start a fight or anything.

and why should the delegates choose who is the nominee? Is this acceptable to most people?!
 
Brick In The Wall

Brick In The Wall

2M Or Not 2B.
Oct 30, 2019
25,158
At this point I don't really think it matters what puppet they elect. This country is fucked and fundamentally changed forever.
 
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glittergore

glittergore

the sea, the sea
Jun 16, 2020
119
This is just my speculation, but I think the reason that Biden was chosen is two-fold: Democrats are now romanticizing the Obama era because of its juxtaposition with the current Trump era and Biden was a big part of that, and related to that, the majority of Democrats fear major change and want things to return to "normal", even when normal is kind of shit.
 
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M

mediocre

trapped here
Nov 9, 2019
1,441
Um ... Trump is the one with no policy proposals. If you want to know Biden's, look them up on his site.
Why don't you state some of them here since you are so knowledgable? because his supporters can never seem to state one policy
I
This is just my speculation, but I think the reason that Biden was chosen is two-fold: Democrats are now romanticizing the Obama era because of its juxtaposition with the current Trump era and Biden was a big part of that, and related to that, the majority of Democrats fear major change and want things to return to "normal", even when normal is kind of shit.
I understand that and it makes the most sense. They see him as returning to the Obama years. Except he has none of the charisma, charm or intelligence that Obama had? That's what confuses me the most. Or maybe democrats are just so desperate to get Trump out they'll accept his flaws for the time being?
 
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NomadicWolf382

NomadicWolf382

I want to drift into the lucid dream, endlessly...
Jun 11, 2020
131
Not an American either, so take it with a grain of salt, but it seems to me that Joe "nothing will fundamentally change" Biden is a perfect candidate for the dynamic you can observe in the American history since cold war times:

nziof1r.jpg
It's more commonly called the political pendulum effect. Until people finally say enough of it, and elect somebody who is out of the system (ie third party or no association), nothing will change. Unfortunately, I don't see that ever happening.
 
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A

a_strange_day

Arcanist
Jul 16, 2019
461
I think the major goal is to get rid of Donald, not to have a good president.
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Jan 11, 2020
6,727
@mediocre, I get the impression that you're frustrated and blame will help discharge it. But I think you're sending it in the wrong direction.

In the OP, you asked the American forum members, "Why do you do this?" I think because you think we have some agency and control.

We don't.

It is a system set up to ostensibly represent and support us, but it does not. It represents and supports its own interests. We have no choice but to play the games we don't choose to be in. Personally, I stopped playing what I could.

We don't have an impact in the general election for president. The electoral college overrides the popular vote. That's why Trump is president. That's why Bush was president. I stopped voting. I stopped playing. I don't participate in something that is a total waste of my energy. Some countries actually force citizens to participate in the illusions and vote, so I guess I can count myself fortunate that I'm given enough supposed freedom to not have to.

It all sucks, and I don't know who is to blame. Would that I did. But it's not the people. It not the citizens. We are not stupid, we just don't have power. It's falsely empowering to us to blame us, which is what victim blaming does. It gives more power to those who don't merit having it and who abuse it.

Trump was overtly abusive to women and ethnic "minorities," and broke tax laws at the least. Biden has also been abusive to women, for starters. Yet someone higher than the individual citizens decides they are our only choices.

It's all illusion that we have rights and power. It's a tasty myth, and sneakily corrosive and disempowering. Just like imperial and colonial powers, it generates admiration and agreement in order to falsely validate and reinforce abusive powers. Anyone who goes against it is at best laughed at, derided, or ignored, or at worst, crushed, along with anyone who dared to support them. Abusive governmental power functioning in this way is nothing new. It is all self-reifying manipulation and, when needed, overt and violent control. Machiavelli laid it all it out quite well, as did Lao Tzu, with a bit more moral ethics. Michel Foucault laid it out less clearly but quite comprehensively in several books and lectures.

In short: moral ethics are not valued by power structures, because they are not run by Marcus Aureliuses. They don't use their power to serve, but to be served. Gautama Buddha said that one sentence is the root of all violence and oppression: "I have power, and I want power." I think it's possible that you see the oppressed as having agency and freedom because of the feel-good myths propogated by the US Constitution, which is not upheld in practice, and therefore erroneously assign too much power to the oppressed. Blaming us just reinforces the oppression on us by giving credence to the myths.
 
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M

mediocre

trapped here
Nov 9, 2019
1,441
@mediocre, I get the impression that you're frustrated and blame will help discharge it. But I think you're sending it in the wrong direction.

In the OP, you asked the American forum members, "Why do you do this?" I think because you think we have some agency and control.

We don't.

It is a system set up to ostensibly represent and support us, but it does not. It represents and supports its own interests. We have no choice but to play the games we don't choose to be in. Personally, I stopped playing what I could.

We don't have an impact in the general election for president. The electoral college overrides the popular vote. That's why Trump is president. That's why Bush was president. I stopped voting. I stopped playing. I don't participate in something that is a total waste of my energy. Some countries actually force citizens to participate in the illusions and vote, so I guess I can count myself fortunate that I'm given enough supposed freedom to not have to.

It all sucks, and I don't know who is to blame. Would that I did. But it's not the people. It not the citizens. We are not stupid, we just don't have power. It's falsely empowering to us to blame us, which is what victim blaming does. It gives more power to those who don't merit having it and who abuse it.

Trump was overtly abusive to women and ethnic "minorities," and broke tax laws at the least. Biden has also been abusive to women, for starters. Yet someone higher than the individual citizens decides they are our only choices.

It's all illusion that we have rights and power. It's a tasty myth, and sneakily corrosive and disempowering. Just like imperial and colonial powers, it generates admiration and agreement in order to falsely validate and reinforce abusive powers. Anyone who goes against it is at best laughed at, derided, or ignored, or at worst, crushed, along with anyone who dared to support them. Abusive governmental power functioning in this way is nothing new. It is all self-reifying manipulation and, when needed, overt and violent control. Machiavelli laid it all it out quite well, as did Lao Tzu, with a bit more moral ethics. Michel Foucault laid it out less clearly but quite comprehensively in several books and lectures.

In short: moral ethics are not valued by power structures, because they are not run by Marcus Aureliuses. They don't use their power to serve, but to be served. Gautama Buddha said that one sentence is the root of all violence and oppression: "I have power, and I want power." I think it's possible that you see the oppressed as having agency and freedom because of the feel-good myths propogated by the US Constitution, which is not upheld in practice, and therefore erroneously assign too much power to the oppressed. Blaming us just reinforces the oppression on us by giving credence to the myths.
I understand everything you said! I wasn't blaming anyone or anyone's vote I asked why he was the nominee out of all the candidates that ran. Reading your post I understand a bit more why.

I completely understand how powerless a lot of people in the US must feel especially when you have delegates and super delegates. I think a lot of people see this and it's the reason 50% don't bother voting at all. If I was American I probably wouldn't bother voting either with these choices presented to me.
 
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Soul

Soul

gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha
Apr 12, 2019
4,704
when did I say Trump had policy proposals?! I'm not a Trump supporter which you seem to assume.

I didn't assume that, or mean to imply it either. Apologies if I upset you.

Why don't you state some of them here since you are so knowledgable? because his supporters can never seem to state one policy

I'm not a Biden supporter, so I'm the wrong person to reproach about that. Nor did I mean to come across like a know-it-all. You asked why he's the apparent candidate and I told you what I know about the process. That's all.

and why should the delegates choose who is the nominee? Is this acceptable to most people?!

The delegates vote on the basis of how voters in the primaries voted, with rare exceptions. Why it's not a straight vote count I don't know. I left America.
 
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mediocre

trapped here
Nov 9, 2019
1,441
I didn't assume that, or mean to imply it either. Apologies if I upset you.

And to answer your enquiry about why Biden supporters can't list Biden's policies: I'm not a Biden supporter, so I'm the wrong person to reproach.



The delegates vote on the basis of how voters in the primaries voted, with rare exceptions. Why it's not a straight vote count I don't know. I left America.
You didn't upset me and I shouldn't have assumed you were a Biden supporter either. Sometimes when I ask questions I can come off as wanting to debate and may seem a bit aggressive! Sorry if I came across this way to you. I just like to talk about US politics and I'm interested in everyone's perspective:)
 
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Grey-zone

Grey-zone

Student
Feb 2, 2019
147
I think the major goal is to get rid of Donald, not to have a good president.
The only reason. Biden is bland enough to win swing votes, or so the thinking goes. He's ahead of Trump by 10%+ with no end in sight. I think Biden matters less than what his administration will be like; for one thing, he'll be more liberal than most of the presidents we've had. Certainly more than any Republican, and most Democrats (more than either of the Clintons), and there's now an energized left-of-center wing of the Dems which might push him into New Deal territory. I say he's worth voting for, as 4 more years of Trump (or Pence) would be the end of the possibility for a decent living in American for a long time. In terms of climate, living standards, and foreign policy it would be a disaster, and not just for the US, but globally. I'm not saying Biden is a great candidate, but that's not how the system works. Obama looked much stronger in 2008 but was a let-down in many ways, so that may not matter much.
 
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F

FusRohDracarys

But what do I know
Mar 31, 2020
236
Biden is not going to be president. He'll resign due to health issues as soon as politically safe to do so. Whoever his VP is will run the show.

But he'll sure be a riot during the debates! Assuming they don't get cancelled.
 
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4eyebiped

4eyebiped

Mage
Dec 28, 2019
567
Regardless of what side of the fence you sit, can we all at least agree that both our choices, for many elections now, have been shit choices? I for one am tired of trying to pick the lesser of two evils.
 
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M

mediocre

trapped here
Nov 9, 2019
1,441
Biden is not going to be president. He'll resign due to health issues as soon as politically safe to do so. Whoever his VP is will run the show.

But he'll sure be a riot during the debates! Assuming they don't get cancelled.
Well it's obvious Biden is in serious cognitive decline. He often slurs his words or forgets them all together even when he is reading a teleprompter. Or he says things that doesn't make any sense or are false. I remember one time he said 150 million people had been lost to gun violence. He's known for saying stupid things even before his health issues. How people think he can go up against Trump in a debate is beyond me. Trump is not intelligent either but he can shout over people! He has a lot of energy and he could easily fluster Biden. It doesn't take much to fluster him! This is another issue a lot of people seem to ignore.
 
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faust

faust

lost among the stars
Jan 26, 2020
3,138
@mediocre Meanwhile V.V.Putin now can rule until 2036. By this time he can turn insane too. Well, a new constitution seems already insane:
"Other conservative reforms include a ban on same-sex marriage and introduce a reference to Russia's ancestral "faith in God"."
Ban in same-sex marriage now will be in constitution, cmon, are you serious?
And Hague won't be able to do anything because new constitution implies "supremacy" of local law over international.
The world is turning upside down.
 
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mediocre

trapped here
Nov 9, 2019
1,441
@mediocre Meanwhile V.V.Putin now can rule until 2036. By this time he can turn insane too. Well, a new constitution seems already insane:
"Other conservative reforms include a ban on same-sex marriage and introduce a reference to Russia's ancestral "faith in God"."
Ban in same-sex marriage now will be in constitution, cmon, are you serious?
And Hague won't be able to do anything because new constitution implies "supremacy" of local law over international.
The world is turning upside down.
Idk what it has to do with joe Biden but I'm not a supporter of Putin or Russia either! I am gay. In fact being gay is illegal in many countries and the death penalty in a dozen or so. As far as I'm aware. Being gay is illegal in every single Muslim majority country. I don't know why everybody focuses on Russia and rarely ever mentions these other countries and their horrible human rights records. In Palestine they throw gays from the tallest building to their death then stone them if they are still alive...

and there are many countries in the world with autocratic leaders that just put themselves in power forever, not just Russia. But I agree it is concerning how much power Putin has. But he is one of many bad actors in the world...
 
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faust

faust

lost among the stars
Jan 26, 2020
3,138
Idk what it has to do with joe Biden but I'm not a supporter of Putin or Russia either! I am gay. In fact being gay is illegal in many countries and the death penalty in a dozen or so. As far as I'm aware. Being gay is illegal in every single Muslim majority country. I don't know why everybody focuses on Russia and rarely ever mentions these other countries and their horrible human rights records. In Palestine they throw gays from the tallest building to their death then stone them if they are still alive...

and there are many countries in the world with autocratic leaders that just put themselves in power forever, not just Russia. But I agree it is concerning how much power Putin has. But he is one of many bad actors in the world...
Will democrats be able to deal with dictators like Putin or old Biden will just become a punchbag and they will do whatever they want? Trump can do literally nothing now, what we may expect from Biden and his colleagues?