Discussion It's really sad how society treats incels

[Makoto]

Why do you think society rejects them?

 

[Gangrel]

Have you seen how most incels act? go have a look at their forums and watch why they are disliked lol

 

[27ClubSoon]

Self identifying as an incel is beyond embarrassing. There isn't anything to be sorry for, they're not some oppressed and marginalised group. They are people who are just blaming society for their lack of social skills. Honestly they just need to get a grip of life, pull themselves together, work on their self esteem. They would then soon realise it isn't that hard to interact with the world.

 

[Makoto]

Have you seen how most incels act? go have a look at their forums and watch why they are disliked lol

It's rude to answer one question with another


...forum name? comunity name?

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Spoiler: THE REASON

Highland County man sentenced to more than 6 years in prison for attempting hate crime

'Incel' pleads guilty to multiple hate crimes for Costa Mesa pepper spray attacks

Terrorism ruling first for Canada 'incel' attack

NINE YEARS AFTER DEADLY 'INCEL' ATTACK, THREAT OF MALE SUPREMACISM IS GROWING​

Footage of her daughter's murder went viral. Now Bianca Devins' mother wants to change the internet​

In the months after Bianca's death, the incel community on sites like 4chan picked up footage of Bianca's murder and amplified it. They had, according to friends of Bianca's, been harassing her for at least a year prior to her murder because of her online presence.

The online incel movement is getting more violent and extreme, report says

The report, by the Center for Countering Digital Hate's new Quant Lab, is the culmination of an investigation that analyzed more than 1 million posts on the site. It found a marked spike in conversations about mass murder and growing approval of sexually assaulting prepubescent girls.

According to the CCDH analysis, members of the forum post about rape every 29 minutes, and more than 89 percent of posters support rape and say it's acceptable. The CCDH analysis also found that posters on the forum are seeking to normalize child rape. More than a quarter of members of the forum have posted pedophilia keywords, the analysis found, and more than half of the members of the forum support pedophilia.

The report also cited content that reflected the trend toward pedophilia, noting that a majority of commenters voiced support for a post that read, "As an incel, there is literally no reason to be against pedophilia." Another thread started by a regular user who had posted more than 7,000 times to the forum contained an image of a 12-year-old child with the comment "who in their right mind would prefer a 22 year old [woman] to this?"

CCDH said its analysis also had found a rising interest in mass murder on the site. Posts mentioning incel mass murders increased 59 percent between 2021 and 2022, the study said, and praise was common for Elliot Rodger. The word "kill" was mentioned 1,181 times on the forum in just one month, equivalent to once every 37 minutes. "Shoot" and "murder" are also popular words on the forum.

Also, a little cameo from our site founders

The forum was founded in 2017 by Diego Joaquín Galante, known online as "Sergeant Incel" and Lamarcus Small as a response to Reddit banning the subreddit /r/incels.

Most people aren't a huge fan of those who are openly misogynistic and who advocate for things, like violence and rape against women. It makes it so that they are hard to sympathize with. While I understand that there is a lot of pressure on men to lose their virginity as soon as possible, even at the cost of their well-being and safety, this reaction to being unable to fulfill those societal expectations is disgusting. Even here, we have already had two instances of members who happened to be incels using men who committed hate crimes against women as their profile pictures.

Incel has gone from a term to simply refer to those who are involuntarily celibate to a full-on hate group promoting violence against women. Rather than confronting the actual systems at play, the ones that put pressure on them to be dominant and to have as much sex as possible lest they fail to be a "true man", the one that forces them into this role because it needs to to keep the illusion of men being all-powerful and dominating because if it doesn't then others will realize that it is all a sham then they will start to rebel against those in power, they instead double down.

They blame women, viewing them as disobedient servants, unwilling to stand down and know their place in the world. We are not people to them, but instead, we are objects that only exist for their pleasure. I don't fully blame them for this, surprisingly enough. From a young age, boys are taught that women belong to them and that they are entitled to our bodies. As a result, when reality comes to bite them in their asses, showing that women will refuse to have sex with them if they don't want to, they get mad. I don't think that incels would exist if we didn't live in a patriarchal society. Still, none of this excuses their behaviour. Everybody suffers under the patriarchy, but most don't go out of their way to advocate or do any of the shit that these people are doing. Incel hate is completely justified.

 

[Maormer]

being lonely is fine, like it get it, but people who self describe as incels tend to congregate in toxic communities full of sexism and doomerism and digital self harm. Like idk there is a difference between struggling to find a partner and turning that loneliness into an identity. If youre lonely the last thing you should do is start identifying as an incel and going to incel sites.

 

[Davey40210]

I think government is also fearful that incels will become militant and thus they are being demonized. Imagine some incel leader standing up and declaring that they will go to war with X or Y. People with nothing to lose can be pretty dangerous.

 

[_AllCatsAreGrey_]

I think it's incels that treat themselves bad. They cultivate a toxic worldview, stew in it, and lash out.

 

[coolgal82]

because they're all misogynistic pieces of garbage who blame all their issues on everyone else and refuse to ever look at or improve themselves.

 

[eeah]

if u wanna have any real discussion abt this ur gonna have to seperate ppl who identify as incels from ppl who are just involuntary celibate. for the latter, yeah it does suck how they can be treated sometimes, and it's just a bad situation to be in. chronic loneliness, lookism, etc are all real problems that I sympathize with and relate to. but for the former, self identified incels are predominantly just shitty misogynistic men. they should maybe stop hating women and it might improve their situation just a bit, then they can work on the real problems.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I think because there is often an undertone or a very obvious tone of resentment and sometimes even aggression towards women. Do you actively try to befriend people who you think have a prejudice against you? It's a little like asking people of colour to actively befriend racists.

That's not to say they don't have a point. I'm sure they have reasons to feel the way they do. The same as Feminists have reasons to protest over inequality. But, it's as much a society problem as it is individuals.

Personally, I find some also have an unreasonable sense of entitlement coupled with a double standard. So- as a typical example (paraphrasing/ summarising the kind of thing I've read): 'It's not fair that I don't have the height or looks to attract women. Because of those two things, I don't have a job either because I lack confidence. It's not fair that women judge me on that. I'm so afraid I'm going to have to 'settle' for someone.' So basically- they've acknowledged that they see themselves as inferior compared to other men and that other women will likely see that too but, they don't see why they should have to settle for an 'inferior' woman. Why?

I'll fully admit that I'm an inferior woman. I don't have the looks to attract men. I don't have many of the other qualities they go for either. Unfortunately, I still tend to fancy handsome men but I wouldn't expect them to reciprocate. I'll get annoyed that I didn't get the genes for all that and I'll get annoyed that men tend to go for looks but I'll acknowledge that it applies to both sexes and it's just how we're wired I suppose. I try really hard not to be like- it's worse for us... It's shit for everyone!

That all said, I don't think reciprocating with aggression towards them is good. Better if we can try and have reasoned conversations and both try to see it from the others point of view.

 

[lxci]

They're actively hateful and lash out at people who play no role in their misery.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Oh boy it feels like it's been a while since the last incel thread.

I'm an incel but I genuinely don't care that other Incels are treated badly. I'm sure we all deserve it even those of us who aren't outwardly hateful and misogynistic. Failure to attract a mate is just an inevitable outcome of nature and those of us unfit to partner up should just accept death already before we make it someone else's problem.

 

[lxci]

Oh boy it feels like it's been a while since the last incel thread.

I'm an incel but I genuinely don't care that other Incels are treated badly. I'm sure we all deserve it even those of us who aren't outwardly hateful and misogynistic. Failure to attract a mate is just an inevitable outcome of nature and those of us unfit to partner up should just accept death already before we make it someone else's problem.

I think a lot of incels are just deeply insecure and stuck within an echochamber. It is possible to "attract a mate" if you overcome that deep insecurity. They only become an issue when they start being misogynistic and entitled to sex. I recommend watching cobtrapoints video on incels

 

[pyx]

its honestly just useless to have these sort of discussions because everyone who cannot understand the plight of the incel will form their own conclusions as to why they are without truly understanding the social realities which really can selectively eliminate incels from all forms of sexual competition by means outside of their control. i don't care for incels who are misogynistic or espouse hateful views. sure, maybe that's the reason they can't get laid. but i don't think anyone who so readily rejects these more vocal types can ever understand the burden of the incel who holds none of these views and is someone who, inevitably, has become sucked into incel echo-chambers where their only respite can really be in relating to others who suffer from the crippling values which consign them to a life of utter defeat; to view sex as the one true thing which gives meaning to life might be unhealthy, but for incels it is inescapable. to assume otherwise would be curbing the issue. their values aren't worn like articles of clothing, and people are not astute enough to infer their substantive views from their behaviour alone.

Self identifying as an incel is beyond embarrassing. There isn't anything to be sorry for, they're not some oppressed and marginalised group. They are people who are just blaming society for their lack of social skills. Honestly they just need to get a grip of life, pull themselves together, work on their self esteem. They would then soon realise it isn't that hard to interact with the world.

you are wrong. some people do not have the capacity to integrate into the world. even if i can articulate what is wrong, how hard must i work to overcome what i view as wrong? after i consume all forms of vapid advice in order to better myself, and upon finding that nothing has changed, what then? what is natural for some seems to be unfathomable to others. to tell incels, most of whom are likely suicidal, to simply pull up their bootstraps and work to attain preferred outcomes in the world is beyond ironic on a pro-choice forum. only pity the self-pitying when it is morally feasible. otherwise it's just a matter of not putting in enough effort, or maintaining a bad mentality. the world is fucking difficult to interact with. why do you think so many here want to escape it?

no matter how much i theorycraft interpersonal relationships, my world is still constituted by primary social needs which i cannot fulfill. it feels so fucking tiring to even try, especially when, by my own intellectual inadequacy, i must exhaust myself to no end in order to obtain the most trivial of outcomes.

these conversations are inherently useless and never lead to anything productive. such inane back and forth

 

[Holu]

their values aren't worn like articles of clothing, and people are not astute enough to infer their substantive views from their behaviour alone.

Though I agree 100% that no individuals values can be determined by a singular representation of their identity regardless of how deeply held it is, it's unreasonable to assume that association doesn't still have an impact. A good comparison is the confederate flag, in which many argue that its origins are that of states rights and as such it's a symbol of culture and heritage. However, symbols aren't unchanging, and their original intents can deviate, especially when the very vocal(even if it's a vocal minority) take the symbol and run it into the dirt. Nowadays, it's willful ignorance to not see that incels are publicly seen as misogynistic and sexist, and for that reason, you should reasonably expect side eyes when self identifying as an incel.

you are wrong. some people do not have the capacity to integrate into the world. even if i can articulate what is wrong, how hard must i work to overcome what i view as wrong? after i consume all forms of vapid advice in order to better myself, and upon finding that nothing has changed, what then? what is natural for some seems to be unfathomable to others.

This is the sentiment I see from a good handful of incels on this forum, and it's perfectly valid. I'd hope most people on this forum are sympathetic to this.

to tell incels, most of whom are likely suicidal, to simply pull up their bootstraps and work to attain preferred outcomes in the world is beyond ironic on a pro-choice forum. only pity the self-pitying when it is morally feasible. otherwise it's just a matter of not putting in enough effort, or maintaining a bad mentality. the world is fucking difficult to interact with. why do you think so many here want to escape it?

Meritocracy, regardless of how self independent and strong willed you are, isn't an effective ideology at addressing systemic inequalities. If people have responded to you on this forum with rugged individualistic advice, then shame on them, because the exact same ignorant advice could be levied towards their problems. That said, I usually don't see too much meritocratic rhetoric in response to incels aside from maybe people telling incels to "stop hating women and you might have success", which at least personally is constructive enough to not be entirely meritocratic but still dismissive.

these conversations are inherently useless and never lead to anything productive. such inane back and forth

This is a fair statement, but it's only understandable when looking at the two opposing conflicting core beliefs. On one hand, you have a group of men who feel dejected by society and women. On the other hand you have a group of women who feel mistreated and undermined by society and men. If both of these seem similar, it's because they are. Gender, identity, and society's expectations are deeply intertwined. It's why I'll never understand why people claim it's easier to be a man or women in today's time. The truth is that both men and women face social injustices and lack of recognition, but instead of finding common ground, we attempt to belittle and assault the opposing side. This as such leads to conflict.

Even still, I will make the personal claim that the majority of incels I've interacted with here are a bit more on the extreme side, which doesn't assist with creating dialogue. It's more common I'll see heavy misogyny than for me to see heavy misandry. The last incel post I interacted with turned sour when the OP began going on an extremely anti woman rant and then changed his profile picture to Eliot Rodger. After this it just became complete chaos, and I won't lie I find it significantly harder to sympathize with individuals like this, even if I can understand why their reacting in such manners, it doesn't excuse and justify them to do so.

Anyways regardless of my views on inceldom, I sympathize, truly. I hope things get better, and I want to let you know that it takes a lot of strength to function without social acceptance. I'm sorry for your suffering.

 

[Downdraft]

its honestly just useless to have these sort of discussions because everyone who cannot understand the plight of the incel will form their own conclusions as to why they are without truly understanding the social realities which really can selectively eliminate incels from all forms of sexual competition by means outside of their control.

I'm aware not all are violent, but I still reject them because the common rhetoric is embarrasing.

Also people in this thread made a disrinction between lonely men and self-identifying incels. The places who label themselves as such are usually very toxic, so why would anyone identify as one? It means a different thing at this point, it's not just being unwillingly virgin.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I think a lot of incels are just deeply insecure and stuck within an echochamber. It is possible to "attract a mate" if you overcome that deep insecurity. They only become an issue when they start being misogynistic and entitled to sex. I recommend watching cobtrapoints video on incels

Why should I have to be forced to overcome my insecurity if the vast majority of people including those in relationships haven't overcome their insecurity either? Plenty of people male and female enter relationships independent from how secure with themselves they are and they stay in them for whatever reason. I'm sick of this insistence that everyone always has to be secure and confident and narcissistically optimistic just to be human when it seems like very few people are actually like this and yet it's what everyone believes we have to be.

But anyways, I don't really like watching incel content much so it's not like I'm trapped in an echo chamber either. I have never felt entitled to sex or relationships otherwise I'd be doing more to force someone into one. I'm not even entitled to a peaceful death but I'd still rather have a peaceful death rather than have to live with continuing to burden non incels.

 

[lxci]

Clearly, the insecurity you're feeling is so crippling that it convinces you you're completely hopeless and unfuckable, which is uniquely damaging to your chances of connecting with someone. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy—believing you're unworthy of love or attraction makes it hard for others to see your value. Yes, everyone, including people in relationships, deals with insecurities, but theirs don't paralyze them the way yours does. Their insecurities don't stop them from engaging with others or believing they deserve love. You don't have to be free of doubt or endlessly optimistic to break that cycle—just enough to recognize that you have value. Even a small shift in how you see yourself can make all the difference in how others see you. It's good that you don't frequent incel content. That is a form of digital self harm. I'm positive there is hope, the black pill is simply catastrophizing. Try broaden your world veiw, it will change your outlook I promise. Also I really encourage you to watch that video.

 

[itswhatits]

I've been thinking about this for a bit. I think there's basically two separate ideas wrapped up in the term "incel", the misogyny and the actual involuntary celibacy, that just happen to overlap in general incel communities. I've seen people use the term to just generically refer to someone who can't get laid or find a romantic partner, but I've also seen people call any type of misogyny "incel shit", even when it's from someone who doesn't have any sexual or romantic problems.

It creates these awkward situations where people define the term differently (do you need the misogyny to be called an incel, or not?), and it conflates the two in a way that implies that men who don't have romantic luck and are vocal about how much that sucks are misogynistic, or that lovelessness will inevitably lead to misogyny. I get no bitches, and I'm terrified of flirting with women, but I sure as shit don't go around spouting slop about how femoids are all hypergamous monsters who only want you for your canthal tilt.

 

[pyx]

before i say anything, my post was made after a particularly bad night in which a lot of my resentments came to the fore. having said that, i agree with a lot in your post.

Though I agree 100% that no individuals values can be determined by a singular representation of their identity regardless of how deeply held it is, it's unreasonable to assume that association doesn't still have an impact. A good comparison is the confederate flag, in which many argue that its origins are that of states rights and as such it's a symbol of culture and heritage. However, symbols aren't unchanging, and their original intents can deviate, especially when the very vocal(even if it's a vocal minority) take the symbol and run it into the dirt. Nowadays, it's willful ignorance to not see that incels are publicly seen as misogynistic and sexist, and for that reason, you should reasonably expect side eyes when self identifying as an incel.

i would disagree in the comparison, in that a great number of incels likely do recognize that their views are not viewed as acceptable by the majority of society and, as a consequence, refrain from engaging within that discourse in public. self-identification with inceldom really only appears in online spaces. everything in which the confederate flag represents stands as a marker for political identity, which draws upon a friend-enemy distinction (their views are espoused only because they see it as their right to do so), whereas incels typically aren't marked in such a way, instead being such by virtue of their own failures. i'm not saying this is the case for all, as indeed the extremely violent types are indeed prone to adopt the moniker of inceldom to engage in decisive and violent acts. i don't think that adopting it gives them any real sense of pride. it's a consequence of true defeatism

Meritocracy, regardless of how self independent and strong willed you are, isn't an effective ideology at addressing systemic inequalities. If people have responded to you on this forum with rugged individualistic advice, then shame on them, because the exact same ignorant advice could be levied towards their problems. That said, I usually don't see too much meritocratic rhetoric in response to incels aside from maybe people telling incels to "stop hating women and you might have success", which at least personally is constructive enough to not be entirely meritocratic but still dismissive.

i agree, though i think it can be dismissive when anything that is perceived as slightly incel-esque in its rhetoric is viewed as deriving from the same cloth of misogyny as typical extremism. the language of incels is a product of their being ingratiated within certain echo-chambers. it doesn't equate to them sharing the same views, but rather that they are apathetic to the more intolerant views in general; you might consider this amoral, but i think that it's rather taxing to preserve an ethical attitude when an individual has suffered greatly. having said that, the assumption that self-identifying incels all hate women might undermine that one incel who, while not sharing their views, may sport their rhetoric, and be condemned for what others perceive as implicit reasons for why he can't get laid, such as internalized misogyny.

This is a fair statement, but it's only understandable when looking at the two opposing conflicting core beliefs. On one hand, you have a group of men who feel dejected by society and women. On the other hand you have a group of women who feel mistreated and undermined by society and men. If both of these seem similar, it's because they are. Gender, identity, and society's expectations are deeply intertwined. It's why I'll never understand why people claim it's easier to be a man or women in today's time. The truth is that both men and women face social injustices and lack of recognition, but instead of finding common ground, we attempt to belittle and assault the opposing side. This as such leads to conflict.

i don't think these two groups are in direct conflict with one another. but yes, it takes two to tango, and our expectations, which are often highly toxic, are perpetuated by both sides. men and women are both complicit in the same dogmatic ritual, and accordingly those who don't profit within that system suffer equally.

Even still, I will make the personal claim that the majority of incels I've interacted with here are a bit more on the extreme side, which doesn't assist with creating dialogue. It's more common I'll see heavy misogyny than for me to see heavy misandry. The last incel post I interacted with turned sour when the OP began going on an extremely anti woman rant and then changed his profile picture to Eliot Rodger. After this it just became complete chaos, and I won't lie I find it significantly harder to sympathize with individuals like this, even if I can understand why their reacting in such manners, it doesn't excuse and justify them to do so.

misandry often appears in a more general form, since it is usually seen as justified due to the historical injustices and social conditions against women which are seen as rooted in patriarchal values. extreme misogyny is obviously not tolerated, so when it does appear it is rightly condemned. but they are different spheres of value. this misogyny is a consequence of echo-chambers, which i don't believe exist for women, partly because, even if they are more vocal, it is still a far more niche group of individuals. hence their rhetoric is fairly recognizable as opposed to misandry.

you're right in claiming that it is inexcusable to hold hardcore incel beliefs. this is why i don't think there is any room for discourse. their beliefs have been built up from a long ingratiated sense of inadequacy, futility and purposelessness. i don't think that the two camps can reconcile at all.

I'm aware not all are violent, but I still reject them because the common rhetoric is embarrasing.

Also people in this thread made a disrinction between lonely men and self-identifying incels. The places who label themselves as such are usually very toxic, so why would anyone identify as one? It means a different thing at this point, it's not just being unwillingly virgin.

unfortunately in wider society the term 'incel' has been weaponized by both sides, meaning that those who aren't self-identified will likely be subsumed under the definition because they share traits with incels and, consequently, will suffer social incursions in part due to this; moreover, as i said before, inceldom isn't an article of clothing which is visible to all those who interact with them, so it is rooted in some deeper inadequacy which makes itself known through means outside of their control. online spaces are different, obviously, but the root of their problem isn't derived from their lack of success in online spaces. the rhetoric is just a way to corrall those who suffer from involuntary celibacy by drawing a friend-enemy distinction; it promotes unity, which, perhaps, is the only thing that an incel can hope to have in their lives.

 

[BlackEyedDog]

I think government is also fearful that incels will become militant and thus they are being demonized. Imagine some incel leader standing up and declaring that they will go to war with X or Y. People with nothing to lose can be pretty dangerous.

It does spill over into real life consequences, fatal ones. People who are the most adamant about free speech and want to do away with things like hate crime laws are oftn the ones least affected by hate crimes.

This is from 2021 in the UK: https://www.refinery29.com/en-gb/2021/08/10633104/blackpill-incels-extremism-terrorism-uk

On 12th August a 22-year-old man named Jake Davison killed his 51-year-old mother, Maxine Davison. He then left his house with a gun.

Just after 6pm, officers from Devon and Cornwall Police were called to a "serious firearms incident" in Biddick Drive, in the Keyham area of Plymouth near the river Tamar.

Officers arrived at the scene within six minutes. But by then Davison, an apprentice crane operator, had also shot dead a 3-year-old girl named Sophie Martyn and her 43-year-old father, Lee.

He then progressed down the street and shot two more local residents, a man and a woman. They are both being treated in hospital for non-life-threatening injuries. ...

...It is the worst shooting event in Britain since 2010 when taxi driver Derrick Bird killed 12 people in Cumbria.

Davison was a licensed firearms holder who used a legally held shotgun to carry out these killings. As things stand, the shootings are not being referred to as a terror incident but questions ought to be asked about why he is not deemed an extremist.

Why? Well, what does Davison have in common with mass murderer Elliot Rodger who, in 2014, at the age of 22, killed six people and injured 14 in a stabbing and shooting spree in California before taking his own life?

Rodger was a self-described incel (short for 'involuntary celibate'). Before he died, he uploaded a racist and misogynistic 'manifesto' and a YouTube video detailing his hatred of women and claiming that he had "no choice but to exact revenge on the society" that had denied him sex and love.

In the years that followed, there was a string of similar attacks as Rodger became something of a figurehead for the incel movement. In 2018 another incel named Alek Minassian killed 10 people after ploughing a van into pedestrians in Toronto. He expressed admiration for Rodger before his attack. In 2019 Brenton Tarrant killed 51 people at two mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand. He had also published a so-called 'manifesto' full of misogyny, racism and xenophobia. Just last month, 21-year-old Tres Genco, another self-described incel from Ohio, was charged with plotting a mass shooting targeting women in university sororities.
...

 

[Davey40210]

I think most who afiliate with the worst forums are depressed that they likely will never find a romantic partner, and in that depression they begin to grasp at straws by spewing hate and pseudoscience in an echo chamber. What incels don't understand is that some people will forever be alone despite their best efforts, and it is ok to be upset about it. It isn't ok to blame others for it, or to encourage terrorism.

Many of them have already fallen through the cracks and live miserable lives competely cut off from the outside world. They often have real world experiences that caused them to be the way they are, and need social services in the real world and people who can empathize with their struggles to gradually deradicalize and reintegrate them into society.

I don't see how this is any different from how society should treat murderers, terrorists, and other violent criminals. They are in need of compassion, structured support, and re-education.

Completely agree. And limiting free speech is not the definitive answer, plus it's a slippery slope.

 

[Draconian Alone]

being lonely is fine, like it get it, but people who self describe as incels tend to congregate in toxic communities full of sexism and doomerism and digital self harm. Like idk there is a difference between struggling to find a partner and turning that loneliness into an identity. If youre lonely the last thing you should do is start identifying as an incel and going to incel sites.

Well…
What's the difference between that and what we're doing on this site?

 

[Maormer]

Well…
What's the difference between that and what we're doing on this site?

This site doesn't encourage people to take out our suffering on others. It's not a cesspool of misogyny. It's still a site that is basically just digital sh for a lot of people and really unhealthy . Like I def need to stop going here but the digital sh and self hate is where the similarities end

 

[-nobodyknows-]

Funnily enough, the people who don't "identify" as incels tend to be okay, even if they technically are one

 

[pyx]

thread proves that no one has anything valuable to add to a very serious problem

 

[obligatoryshackles]

It's the same reason society treats disabled people like shit. The same reason society treats poor people like shit. When someone fails at something that most people are able to do, we largely assume that it was due to a moral failure on that person's part. Especially when it's about a group that can be generalized and thus, in our minds, dehumanized.

It's a commonly observed fact that most people drastically overestimate how much their achievements came from their own efforts and ability, and fail to realize just how much circumstances favored that outcome - a vast majority of success in life (arguably 100% if you ask me) comes down to luck. So even when someone gets screwed over by circumstances entirely out of their control, everyone who didn't get screwed over just assumes that it was a personal failure of that person.

"I was able to do this just fine, so why couldn't you? You must be worthless and/or evil."

We vilify people like that, refusing to even entertain the idea that they may have ended up there due to circumstances entirely outside of their control. We arrogantly assume that if we were put in that same position, we wouldn't have ended up like that. We separate ourselves from them, justifying our negative view of them by simply assuming they are nothing like us, not even human - a monster, a degenerate, a failure.

 

[sceáwere]

society hates incels because they are an obvious scapegoat in a world of equity. they are at the bottom of the hierarchy in our modern world. it seems that everyone writes off human nature as inconsequential yet human nature is a concern for the rabble's opinion on dysgenic men. the term 'incel' appears to be applied to any dysgenic man regardless of whether he is hostile to society and the fairer gender or not; take 'nice guys' for example, they are kind to women yet get labelled incels anyway. it does not aid the situation that men have a behavioural imperative to put down other men in order to impress other people and increase their own chances at reproduction, and that women have a behavioural imperative to put down these men in order to set their boundaries and discourage men of this stratum of trying to court them.
dysgenic women are not treated the same way since women are not as proactive in trying to attain a partner, dysgenicity is much rarer in women due to the fact they have less genetic variablity than men, and the fact that women are much more valued and desired in society due to the halo of their womb and men's hypersexual lust.

there's just no way a dysgenic man can win in our world.

i believe that this is simply the truth, but i don't believe it warrants any hatred from anyone as this is simply the way society functions and it is unchangeable.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

society hates incels because they are an obvious scapegoat in a world of equity. they are at the bottom of the hierarchy in our modern world.

They aren't hated because they are scapegoats, they are hated due to their misogynistic attitudes towards women. Also, they are nowhere near close to the bottom of the hierarchy. Most incels are cis-het men, so despite their issues with living up to gender expectations they are granted a lot of privilege from being a part of those identities.

the term 'incel' appears to be applied to any dysgenic man regardless of whether he is hostile to society and the fairer gender or not; take 'nice guys' for example, they are kind to women yet get labelled incels anyway.

The term incel has become one frequently used to describe a specific subset of virgin men who happen to be misogynistic towards women, blaming them and society for their issues with getting laid and going into a relationship. They are generally hostile towards sexually active men and women (especially women). That is an essential characteristic of being an incel.

"Nice guys" also aren't usually very nice. They are men who view themselves as being nice and thus believe that entitles them to women's bodies. A lot of these men are quick to turn hostile when denied things, such as sex, hence their poor reputation.

the fact that women are much more valued and desired in society due to the halo of their womb and men's hypersexual lust.

Women aren't valued in society. This comment in of itself proves that, reducing us down to our wombs rather than viewing us as people. Women are treated as objects by wider society.