Venting It's ok to not "forgive" people

[GreenLantern]

People make it sound like the victim of wrongdoings by others has some sort of moral obligation to "forgive" those people and not "hate" them. That's not true. If someone is mean to you and makes you feel bad, you have every right to feel the way you do. If they make you feel bad, you don't have an obligation to make them feel good after they just stomped on you.

Hell Yes, I do hate bullies, assholes, jerks, and disrespectful people. It's just the way I feel. I'm not working harder to use energy to hate them. It's just a natural knee jerk reaction that if someone is mean to you and insults your character, yes I'm upset and have animosity towards them. People make it sound like you're supposed to have a good, light hearted reaction to people like that and be so "forgiving".

The whole "forgiveness" and stigma of hating mean people is something that's mostly from religion. Well I'm atheist agnostic, so I don't follow that sort of thing. I believe in "forgiving" people if it's how I really feel, and if they give me an authentic apology. But I do hate when people try to pressure you to forgive mean people and not hate them like that's the virtuous and (they even dare say) the mature thing to do.

I hate when people try to tell me that the way I feel about people who've ruined my life is wrong. Of course no rational human being would have a good attitude toward people who make others miserable.

 

[TAW122]

People make it sound like the victim of wrongdoings by others has some sort of moral obligation to "forgive" those people and not "hate" them. That's not true. If someone is mean to you and makes you feel bad, you have every right to feel the way you do. If they make you feel bad, you don't have an obligation to make them feel good after they just stomped on you.

Hell Yes, I do hate bullies, assholes, jerks, and disrespectful people. It's just the way I feel. I'm not working harder to use energy to hate them. It's just a natural knee jerk reaction that if someone is mean to you and insults your character, yes I'm upset and have animosity towards them. People make it sound like you're supposed to have a good, light hearted reaction to people like that and be so "forgiving".

The whole "forgiveness" and stigma of hating mean people is something that's mostly from religion. Well I'm atheist agnostic, so I don't follow that sort of thing. I believe in "forgiving" people if it's how I really feel, and if they give me an authentic apology. But I do hate when people try to pressure you to forgive mean people and not hate them like that's the virtuous and (they even dare say) the mature thing to do.

I hate when people try to tell me that the way I feel about people who've ruined my life is wrong. Of course no rational human being would have a good attitude toward people who make others miserable.

I am also an atheist myself, and I too, don't follow the drivel that religious people and society pushes on everyone. Also, yes I believe that if someone has a genuine apology for doing wrong and will not re-offend, then I will forgive them (also varies depending on what they did -- if it's too severe then there isn't any forgiveness). Also, your last sentence is spot on, and being a rational, logical person when it comes to these things.

 

[Essie]

Having had to deal with this concept a whole bunch in my life, from abusive, alcoholic parents who abandoned me, to rape (3x) and someone killing me, and being put out of business predatorily, and now being crippled by Drs who also almost killed my newborn, then a million less severe things, I have to say I turned a new leaf on this recently.

I was always taking the act of forgiveness as something FOR the other person. And of course, it is harmful, even, to keep forgiving repeat offenders and enabling them. So this never made sense in a logical, moral way. I think it is a kindness to sometimes say NO to people and correct them, and to cut bad people out of your life.

However, after this recent incident, I was being consumed by the injustice and unfairness, and it began to fry my brain. I find through my life that anger DOES create a miserable existence if that is the perpetual state you live in. I kept going online to look at quotes/articles, and I kept seeing that Buddhist saying of "Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die" ("hot coals" is the variant). And that is exactly what it felt like. I was getting even MORE angry that my anger was not affecting these people whatsoever, nor were they even aware of it. They were off living their lives, scot free of consequence. And the people who also caused this around me that I was unleashing my wrath on would fight back (always thinking they were in the right) and then go off and live their lives while I sat home crippled. So then I just stopped being angry. I stopped letting myself be bothered by them and rarely think of them anymore, despite that they crippled me. You could say that is forgiveness. And I began treating the people around me kindly again, even helping them, more for my well-being than for them, because it had already been 3 years of nonstop animosity, and I was sick of living like that. It did help that portion of the issue, which was compounding all the physical problems they caused and making the pain worse and my mental/emotional state hellish.

I am NOT saying forgiveness is condoning. Never condone bad actions. It is not condemning, because in condemning them, I was really only condemning myself to the angry hell they were unaware of anyway. So I more "forgot" about it, you could say.

So in short, people have different ideas of what forgiveness means and who it is for. I have not gotten to the bottom of the matter. I think pointing out to people their wrongdoings and seeking justice is correct. But harboring it, unfortunately, is only hurting yourself. I wish it affected them, but it doesn't.

This is just my current opinion after a life of being seriously harmed by people and being told to "forgive." (And yes, I resented having to be the "mature," morally superior one to the horrible people who did these things. And I still do resent it. As I said, I have not figured it out yet but made some headway.)

 

[Smilla]

It's often said forgiveness is "for yourself" because to be bitter is to be unhappy.

Whatever, I'll die a bitter woman I guess.

 

[To match the colors]

it is absolutely okay if you ask me, people that harm us and treat us like shit dont deserve our forgiveness (i also dont believe in the"Forgiveness is for you" BS).

 

[Smilla]

it is absolutely okay if you ask me, people that harm us and treat us like shit dont deserve our forgiveness (i also dont believe in the"Forgiveness is for you" BS).

Yeah. Especially if said inviduals never even uttered a sorry after being informed that they hurt us.

 

[GreenLantern]

Having had to deal with this concept a whole bunch in my life, from abusive, alcoholic parents who abandoned me, to rape (3x) and someone killing me, and being put out of business predatorily, and now being crippled by Drs who also almost killed my newborn, then a million less severe things, I have to say I turned a new leaf on this recently.

I was always taking the act of forgiveness as something FOR the other person. And of course, it is harmful, even, to keep forgiving repeat offenders and enabling them. So this never made sense in a logical, moral way. I think it is a kindness to sometimes say NO to people and correct them, and to cut bad people out of your life.

However, after this recent incident, I was being consumed by the injustice and unfairness, and it began to fry my brain. I find through my life that anger DOES create a miserable existence if that is the perpetual state you live in. I kept going online to look at quotes/articles, and I kept seeing that Buddhist saying of "Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die" ("hot coals" is the variant). And that is exactly what it felt like. I was getting even MORE angry that my anger was not affecting these people whatsoever, nor were they even aware of it. They were off living their lives, scot free of consequence. And the people who also caused this around me that I was unleashing my wrath on would fight back (always thinking they were in the right) and then go off and live their lives while I sat home crippled. So then I just stopped being angry. I stopped letting myself be bothered by them and rarely think of them anymore, despite that they crippled me. You could say that is forgiveness. And I began treating the people around me kindly again, even helping them, more for my well-being than for them, because it had already been 3 years of nonstop animosity, and I was sick of living like that. It did help that portion of the issue, which was compounding all the physical problems they caused and making the pain worse and my mental/emotional state hellish.

I am NOT saying forgiveness is condoning. Never condone bad actions. It is not condemning, because in condemning them, I was really only condemning myself to the angry hell they were unaware of anyway. So I more "forgot" about it, you could say.

So in short, people have different ideas of what forgiveness means and who it is for. I have not gotten to the bottom of the matter. I think pointing out to people their wrongdoings and seeking justice is correct. But harboring it, unfortunately, is only hurting yourself. I wish it affected them, but it doesn't.

This is just my current opinion after a life of being seriously harmed by people and being told to "forgive." (And yes, I resented having to be the "mature," morally superior one to the horrible people who did these things. And I still do resent it. As I said, I have not figured it out yet but made some headway.)

That's true that it doesn't affect the other person regardless of how you feel and it obviously doesn't change them.

But at the same time, it's not wrong to feel that way about how they treat you. You can't help how you feel. People like to jump on people and shame you for having bad feelings toward the perpetrator even though they did something to hurt someone else. How about empathy for the victim and the person who was on the receiving end of the behavior? That makes more sense to me. But what do I know? I'm just bitter.

 

[GreenLantern]

Yeah. Especially if said inviduals never even uttered a sorry after being informed that they hurt us.

IKR! I hate how people don't like to admit when they're wrong. They're extremely proud, or think that it will make them look bad or show weakness.

 

[Essie]

That's true that it doesn't affect the other person regardless of how you feel and it obviously doesn't change them.

But at the same time, it's not wrong to feel that way about how they treat you. People like to jump on people and shame you for having bad feelings toward the perpetrator even though they did something to hurt someone else. How about empathy for the victim and the person who was on the receiving end of the behavior. That makes more sense to me. But what do I know? I'm just bitter.

Yes. This is all true. I am in the throes of it right now and am the VILLAIN for being mad people crippled me and having physical pain that is more than people think/believe it should be. Not a shred of empathy has come my way. Nothing but derision. That hurts. Again, I am forced to ignore it and that is reflective of their "cold" hearts, not mine. I just don't need to keep myself in the state of emotion/mental pain on account of their shortcomings. I think less of them figuratively and literally.

 

[Jen Erik]

What's so interesting is when a person makes an apology, doesn't receive 'forgiveness', and then gets mad because they weren't forgiven or things don't go back to "the way they were" before trespass was committed.

 

[GreenLantern]

What's so interesting is when a person makes an apology, doesn't receive 'forgiveness', and then gets mad because they weren't forgiven or things don't go back to "the way they were" before trespass was committed.

I think that's another reason people don't apologize. When you apologize, you make yourself vulnerable and give the other person power to accept your apology (which makes the apologee feel better) or deny it (making them feel bad for even apologizing, and maybe still for the initial perpetrating act). For some, even if they do actually bad for what they did, they don't want to do that.

 

[GreenLantern]

Yes. This is all true. I am in the throes of it right now and am the VILLAIN for being mad people crippled me and having physical pain that is more than people think/believe it should be. Not a shred of empathy has come my way. Nothing but derision. That hurts. Again, I am forced to ignore it and that is reflective of their "cold" hearts, not mine. I just don't need to keep myself in the state of emotion/mental pain on account of their shortcomings. I think less of them figuratively and literally.

I see.

Also kinda hard to go along with the "forgiveness" ideal preached by mainstream society if the same behavior keeps happening to you everywhere you go. Even if not by the same person, by others who treat you just like them.

 

[Essie]

I see.

Also kinda hard to go along with the "forgiveness" ideal preached by mainstream society if the same behavior keeps happening to you everywhere you go. Even if not by the same person, by others who treat you just like them.

Again, I ignore what "society" says because I am unclear of what they mean by "forgiveness"--and I think it varies person to person. I made the distinction for myself that it is not condoning bad actions, but not condemning them. Also, trying to "forget" them, because taking attention off something makes it diminish. Yes, send someone to prison for murder. Dump a person who cheats if you feel that is necessary. But also allow the person to change if they do. If not, then treat them accordingly.

It is more for YOU to maintain your self-worth and sanity amidst a whole bunch of jerks that DO take advantage and treat unkindly and even cause serious, irreparable harm. I am a very forgiving person. I also make mistakes, like everyone, and I expect people to "forgive them" when minor. But there is a limit where it is not good even for the perpetrator to be enabled by repeated "forgiveness" if they do not change.

 

[Threads]

You don't have to forgive anyone.

Except yourself.

 

[GreenLantern]

Again, I ignore what "society" says because I am unclear of what they mean by "forgiveness"--and I think it varies person to person. I made the distinction for myself that it is not condoning bad actions, but not condemning them. Also, trying to "forget" them, because taking attention off something makes it diminish. Yes, send someone to prison for murder. Dump a person who cheats if you feel that is necessary. But also allow the person to change if they do. If not, then treat them accordingly.

It is more for YOU to maintain your self-worth and sanity amidst a whole bunch of jerks that DO take advantage and treat unkindly and even cause serious, irreparable harm. I am a very forgiving person. I also make mistakes, like everyone, and I expect people to "forgive them" when minor. But there is a limit where it is not good even for the perpetrator to be enabled by repeated "forgiveness" if they do not change.

Yeah but my point was that even if I was buying into the whole "forgiveness" thing when someone tried to pressure me to do it, you can't nor is it wise to "forgive" everyone who does you wrong if the disrespect keeps happening to you consistently. And it sounds like we agree on that.

 

[AndyCurious]

Personally for me, it is easier to forgive than forget, of course, it depends on the issue.. And I appreciate when a person say I am sorry for that.. I think it shows strength to say I am sorry.. At least they don't seem ignorant to me..

 

[Essie]

Yeah but my point was that even if I was buying into the whole "forgiveness" thing when someone tried to pressure me to do it, you can't nor is it wise to "forgive" everyone who does you wrong if the disrespect keeps happening to you consistently. And it sounds like we agree on that.

I think we are in agreement in general. I just am telling you specifically how I handle it and why it may not affect me as much. People SUCK, I have found. So you need a battle plan to deal with it on a daily basis.

I highly recommend not to be "pressured" to forgive. That wouldn't be forgiveness anyway. I know everyone rushes to the perpetrator's defense, for some UNKNOWN reason, but it is better to just cut ties or take a breather than force forgiveness. If they are a jerk, they can pay the price for a while. In HS, my BF of 2/3 yrs cheated. I forgave it. Then he did it again, and on my B-day didn't even come. I thought he'd gotten in an accident or something, then found out from a coworker he was at the restaurant I worked at with the girl, lol. So I broke it off. Then he came back again, and this time I didn't "forgive." I lost ALL my friends--30-40--b/c he kept in the same group as me and it was awkward. So I made new friends, met my future husband, and found out that he'd also been trying to weasel his way into my H's friend group the whole time we were dating, unbeknownst to me. So it was instant "karma," so to speak, b/c I looked like the "cool one" to be accepted by my H and his friends. LOL. We are all in contact to this day, so this 2nd shot formed lasting relationships. That is what I am saying overall, about the crappy people not getting ahead like they want to, and it started as far back as then and continues on like that to this day.

 

[gnrluver0105]

Why forgive someone that makes you bad? You can forgot, but I think it's totally acceptable to never forgive, some people don't deserve it

 

[JazzyWolfWhistle]

I wish I had been my forgiving earlier in my life. Being resentful made me defensive and distant from people. I believe forgiveness is the way to go. Carrying all that anger weakened me. Please forgive them if you can.

 

[Jodes]

People make it sound like the victim of wrongdoings by others has some sort of moral obligation to "forgive" those people and not "hate" them. That's not true. If someone is mean to you and makes you feel bad, you have every right to feel the way you do. If they make you feel bad, you don't have an obligation to make them feel good after they just stomped on you.

Hell Yes, I do hate bullies, assholes, jerks, and disrespectful people. It's just the way I feel. I'm not working harder to use energy to hate them. It's just a natural knee jerk reaction that if someone is mean to you and insults your character, yes I'm upset and have animosity towards them. People make it sound like you're supposed to have a good, light hearted reaction to people like that and be so "forgiving".

The whole "forgiveness" and stigma of hating mean people is something that's mostly from religion. Well I'm atheist agnostic, so I don't follow that sort of thing. I believe in "forgiving" people if it's how I really feel, and if they give me an authentic apology. But I do hate when people try to pressure you to forgive mean people and not hate them like that's the virtuous and (they even dare say) the mature thing to do.

I hate when people try to tell me that the way I feel about people who've ruined my life is wrong. Of course no rational human being would have a good attitude toward people who make others miserable.

It could be argued their mental health (caused by environment & genes) create abusive peopke. One last criticism (sorry!! ) I dont like the word forgive here - it should just be case (imo) of:

1 will you help tgem
2. Are they so toxic you have to distance yoyrself

I'll rarerly forgive ppl who do me harm though. - an EUPD trait, due to black & white thinking. Partly selfish hatred, mostly fear & self protection.

 

[Norest4thewicked]

Forgive and forget? I am not Jesus and I do not have Alzheimers. Heard this year's ago. Words of wisdom