Venting It's not HATE if you call it FAITH. 💩

[thewalkingdread]

I wouldn't even be in here, in this shitty, crappy, world, with a "suicidal" mindset ¹, if it weren't by the "loving" "grace" of a horny, dysfunctional, couple of stupid pro-lifers, who decided to have kids just by assuming that life was "destined" to be good enough — as if they were living a great romantic fairytale... When they were clearly not.

Sexual intercourse is all about it's participants mutually fucking themselves. So, go out there — the world is your oyster! — and have a blast, have a fucking orgy, a huge BDSM party... I couldn't care any less.

But pro-lifers act as if they have this great obsession about fucking with the life of a third innocent person, who never asked to be brought into this "arena of madness" to be fucked with.


¹ — I'm suicidal not because I'm "defective", as some suicidal pro-life biased people in this forum would want us to believe. I'm suicidal because life sucks overall and it has no positive net value.

 

[breezeboy]

The majority of people want to be alive though.

Ive personally accepted I'm the problem and definitely think there is something defective about me. Being suicidal isn't the norm for humans.

Sometimes I wish I could meet one of these "pro-lifers" that people on this site talk about. I never see them lol. Too bad everyone can't just respect each others opinions regardless if they agree or not.

 

[FuneralCry]

I find it so incredibly tragic and horrifying how deluded humans so selfishly decide to impose existence, all it does is create unnecessary suffering, harm and problems that never needed to exist at all.
Existence itself is what I see as the true problem, and it's insane how despite the fact that there is no limit as to how much a human can suffer in this hellish reality wanting to die on our own terms is still viewed as something "irrational". The defective comment cannot be serious honestly, as I see suicide as a rational solution to prevent all future harms in an existence that was very much undesirable in the first place.

Only the existing are capable of suffering after all, and not the dead which is why I see it as always preferable to die. But only never existing is true perfection, the compassionate and rational outcome is to let this species go voluntarily extinct through life no longer being forced here.

 

[Darkover]

Being suicidal isn't the norm for humans.

More than 700 000 people die due to suicide every year, 1 out of 20 suicide attempts succeeds, thats 14,000,000 attempts per year, or 1,120,000,000 attempts per 80 years one lifetime, 56,000,000 people would of died via suicide within the average lifetime but over 1 in every 8 of us would of attempted suicide at least once during our lifetime

 

[thewalkingdread]

The majority of people want to be alive though.

Of course they do. Once you're born into this dump, it is very hard to leave it. For many reasons. But the biggest of all is called survival "instinct".

Dying sucks. Death is definitely an intrinsically bad thing. No one really "wants" to die.

People only kill themselves because they finally concluded that their deaths is the lesser of two unavoidable evils.

 

[Goku Black]

Of course they do. Once you're born into this dump, it is very hard to leave it. For many reasons. But the biggest of all is called survival "instinct".

Dying sucks. Death is definitely an intrinsicaly bad thing. No one really "wants" to die.

People only kill themselves because they finally concluded that their deaths is the lesser of two unavoidable evils.

Honestly, SI feels like a hostage situation, you're kept here against your will even if you want to leave.

 

[thewalkingdread]

Honestly, SI feels like a hostage situation, you're kept here against your will even if you want to leave.

Indeed, It does. And do you know who imprisoned us here?!

"Love".

I even wrote a little poem the other day, called 'Love hurts, life sucks':

Love is a heart's cheap lie...​

Corrupted a world, stands in awe,​

A tie.​

Love is a siren's call​

The greatest enslaver's bond​

of all.​

So, yeah... Definitely a hostage situation.

We are all dangling in the middle of a very much unpleaseant crossroads... A daunting, soul crushing, liminal space... Where it all seems so insolvent — as if all space-time froze all around us...

I can't really say much more than that, somehow, we are all struggling in this very same drifting life-boat wreckage together.

 

[Darkover]

The majority of people want to be alive though.

a fleeting thought about suicide is something that everyone has probably experienced at some point in their lives

 

[breezeboy]

More than 700 000 people die due to suicide every year, 1 out of 20 suicide attempts succeeds, thats 14,000,000 attempts per year, or 1,120,000,000 attempts per 80 years one lifetime, 56,000,000 people would of died via suicide within the average lifetime but over 1 in every 8 of us would of attempted suicide at least once during our lifetime

So exactly what I said. Suicide is not the norm.

There are about 70 million deaths a year and suicide makes up like 1.1-1.3 percent of deaths.
Which equals out to about 700,000 a year like you said.

I don't count attempts because they aren't verifiable like death from suicide.

Of course they do. Once you're born into this dump, it is very hard to leave it. For many reasons. But the biggest of all is called survival "instinct".

Dying sucks. Death is definitely an intrinsically bad thing. No one really "wants" to die.

People only kill themselves because they finally concluded that their deaths is the lesser of two unavoidable evils.

While I respect your opinion I disagree. Not that it matters lol.

I try not to label death as anything other than death. We don't know if it's a good or bad thing we only know we miss people here on earth when they die. I've always wanted to die it's just fear of the unknown holding me back.

 

[Goku Black]

Indeed, It does. And do you know who imprisoned us here?!

"Love".

I even wrote a little poem the other day, called 'Love hurts, life sucks':

Love is a heart's cheap lie...​

Corrupted a world, stands in awe,​

A tie.​

Love is a siren's call​

The greatest enslaver's bond​

of all.​

So, yeah... Definitely a hostage situation.

We are all dangling in the middle of a very much unpleaseant crossroads... A daunting, soul crushing, liminal space... Where it all seems so insolvent — as if all space-time froze all around us...

I can't really say much more than that, somehow, we are all struggling in this very same drifting life-boat wreckage together.

Isn't it more so the "Love" that comes out of reproduction between parents. A biological pursuit to pass on genes and such so that offspring will do the same.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

Only while living / existing / conscious can I suffer unbearable pain. They want everyone to believe it's irrational to want to get out from under threat of intolerable pain.

is it rational to want to remain under threat of unbearable pain and to want to get old? No . But that's what wanting to live is

Only non-existence forever can guarantee there will be no old age no pain no suffering no problems ever to for me

Imo a lot of people who think these horrible things that happened to other people won't happen to them are heavily programmed

So why should I live for a while longer if I'm going to die anyway? There is no reason only to suffer pain

I believe after death is non-existence forever

Non-existence forever is the ultimate bliss to me .

 

[Life_and_Death]

Being suicidal isn't the norm for humans.

but it is normal.
its just a reaction to your situation. something everyone goes through. they react to their situation.
people just call it "abnormal" because humans like to sweep things under rugs.
just cuz other people suck, doesnt make us any less normal.
we're just hurting more than most because of our situations

 

[breezeboy]

but it is normal.
its just a reaction to your situation. something everyone goes through. they react to their situation.
people just call it "abnormal" because humans like to sweep things under rugs.
just cuz other people suck, doesnt make us any less normal.
we're just hurting more than most because of our situations

For something to be "the norm" implies it's widespread. Something that is commonly expected and socially enforced is a norm. With 1 percent of people killing themselves a year it would not be the norm.

 

[Life_and_Death]

For something to be "the norm" implies it's widespread. Something that is commonly expected and socially enforced is a norm. With 1 percent of people killing themselves a year it would not be the norm.

so, its not widespread for people to react to their situations? something literally every single last human does

 

[breezeboy]

so, its not widespread for people to react to their situations? something literally every single last human does

That has nothing to do with what I said.

 

[Life_and_Death]

That has nothing to do with what I said.

it has everything to do with it, or else what you said has nothing to do with what i said.
yay another person to add to the ignore list. stupid little debates with people i dont know nor care about arent worth my time

 

[thewalkingdread]

we're just hurting more than most because of our situations

This is a very true and precise statement.

"Happy" people are constantly — and actively! — underestimating how precarious their quality of life actually is via dellusional self-deception.

"Pessimists" are hurting more because we like to deal with the harsh reality in a honest, realistic, way. Facts don't care about our feelings... And facing them without self-deception is a very hard thing to do. Most people avoid it as if it was the plague.

 

[Blue Elephant]

@breezeboy You're not getting it! You're using the wrong concept, you shouldn't be using "normal". I think "common" or "uncommon" is what you're looking for. When @Life_and_Death uses "normal" she sees it as the right, the correct, the expected action to take to a certain situation. And she's right! I think there was a misunderstanding here.

@thewalkingdread Great way of thinking by the way! I love your way your words! They are.. right. You have understanding.. most of the time. : )

I'm suicidal because life sucks overall and it has no positive net value.

If I may I would like to save this as a quote.

Have you met suicidal pro-life biased people in this forum? Where? When? They should be reported.

But, wait.. can one be "suicidal" and "pro-life" at the same time?

Death is definitely an intrinsically bad thing.

This I do not agree with. Concepts are fluent, things can be good or bad in relation to certain individuals, different from time to time and from situation to situation. I don't see death as a bad thing, I see it as just another step.

 

[breezeboy]

@breezeboy You're not getting it! You're using the wrong concept, you shouldn't be using "normal". I think "common" or "uncommon" is what you're looking for. When @Life_and_Death uses "normal" she sees it as the right, the correct, the expected action to take to a certain situation. And she's right! I think there was a misunderstanding here.

@thewalkingdread Great way of thinking by the way! I love your way your words! They are.. right. You have understanding.. most of the time. : )


If I may I would like to save this as a quote.

Have you met suicidal pro-life biased people in this forum? Where? When? They should be reported.

But, wait.. can one be "suicidal" and "pro-life" at the same time?


This I do not agree with. Concepts are fluent, things can be good or bad in relation to certain individuals, different from time to time and from situation to situation. I don't see death as a bad thing, I see it as just another step.

I encourage you to go back and read what I actually said. I never said normal. I said suicide is not the norm which is completely correct despite what someones opinion might be.

An example of something being the norm is like giving your seat to a pregnant women or holding the door open for someone behind you even if you don't know them.
People killing themselves isn't even close to being the norm.

 

[Blue Elephant]

Wow! Wow!! I specifically told you what.. and.. you're.. ignoring? What? You are oblivious!

@Life_and_Death how do I add this person to the Ignore List?

 

[Life_and_Death]

@Life_and_Death how do I this person to the Ignore List?

click on the name, youll find it at the bottom

 

[Blue Elephant]

click on the name, youll find it at the bottom

Found it! Cheers!

 

[thewalkingdread]

over 1 in every 8 of us would of attempted suicide at least once during our lifetime

This might not be a statistical "norm" as noted by @breezeboy, but it is still a very impressive and alarming number. You are very much welcomed for this piece of data/evidence.

I'd like to add that, nevertheless, this ratio, if anything, is very much underestimated.

Suicidality is a very hard thing to study and assess... Like any other psychological research, numbers are rarely conclusive of any accurate statistical distribution.

a fleeting thought about suicide is something that everyone has probably experienced at some point in their lives

You're locked on target here.

I'd wager that an accurate, global, statistical distribution of people suffering or dealing with suicidality at anypoint in their life would be way higher than the ratio you've provided.

If having a 'fleeting thought' was the criterion, I would estimate — at least! — a ratio of 1 in 2... (And that's only because I'm trying to be conservative.)

I don't count attempts because they aren't verifiable like death from suicide.

Well... Ain't that an arbitrary criterion of yours?! Why attempts should not be regarded as "verifiable" like you do with actual deaths?!

It seems to me that you are cherry picking in order to minimize the statistics @Darkover kindfully — and informatively! — provided to us.

They might not be as accurate as we would like them to be but they are still a scientific attempt to estimate how bad our global suicide rates are.

The majority of people want to be alive though.

Since we are trying to be precise and accurate, I feel compelled to ask you: How do you know it is so?! Do you have any data/evidence to support this statement?

I try not to label death as anything other than death.

I'm not "labeling" anything. I'm stating a fact. Death is definitely not a good thing. It's an intrinsically bad one.

We don't know if it's a good or bad thing

Yes, we do. I wasn't talking about the remote, improbable, possibility of an "afterlife". I was strictly speaking about death — allegorically know as the "grim reaper".

I will say to you the same thing you said to @Life_and_Death: the "afterlife" has nothing to do with the subject in hand. This is a senseless metaphysical speculation brought to the debate by you.

So, please, let's just restrain ourselves and talk about things we actually have a minimum amount of evidence.

We know, for instance, that burning ourselves is a very painful thing. Therefore, it's bad.

By a similar logics, we also consider death to be bad because the whole process is obviously very painful — physically and mentally.

You even mentioned that you are afraid of "the unknow". I doubt you would state that feeling afraid of something is not a bad thing. Would you fear something good?! I guess not...!

So, yes... We do know that death is mostly a bad thing.

Have you met suicidal pro-life biased people in this forum? Where? When? They should be reported.

I see suicidal pro-life biased remarks all the time. But I don't think we should report or ban them. I think they should be allowed in here.

But they also got to understand that they are a minority in here and that they will receive backlash when they manifest themselves.

can one be "suicidal" and "pro-life" at the same time?

Yes, one can.

I have no sympathy for them when they behave in their usual condescending manners... but, nevertheless, they should have our empathy and a place in this forum because they are also suffering in the same life-boat as we are.

 

[breezeboy]

This might not be a statistical "norm" as noted by @breezeboy, but it is still a very impressive and alarming number. You are very much welcomed for this piece of data/evidence.

I'd like to add that, nevertheless this ratio, if anything, is very much underestimated.

Sicidality is a very hard thing to study and assess... Like any other psychological research, numbers are rarely conclusive of any accurate statistical distribution.


You're locked on target here.

I'd wager that an accurate, global, statistical distribution of people suffering or dealing with suicidality at anypoint in their life would be way higher than the ratio you've provided.

If having a 'fleeting thought' was the criterion, I would estimate — at least! — a ratio of 1 in 2... (And that's only because I'm trying to be conservative.)


Well... Ain't that an arbitrary criterion of yours?! Why attempts should not be regarded as "verifiable" like you do with actual deaths?!

It seems to me that you are cherry picking in order to minimize the statistics @Darkover kindfully — and informatively! — provided to us.

They might not be as accurate as we would like them to be but they are still a scientific attempt to estimate how bad our global suicide rates are.


Since we are trying to be precise and accurate, I feel compeled to ask you: How do you know it is so?! Do you have any data/evidence to support this statement?


I'm not "labeling" anything. I'm stating a fact. Death is definitely not a good thing. It's an intrinsically bad one.


Yes, we do. I wasn't talking about the remote, improbable, possibility of an "afterlife". I was strictly speaking about death — allegorically know as the "grim reaper".

I will say to you the same thing you said to @Life_and_Death: the "afterlife" has nothing to do with the subject in hand. This is a senseless metaphysical speculation brought to the debate by you.

So, please, let's just restrain ourselves and talk about things we actually have a minimum amount of evidence.

We know, for instance, that burning ourselves is a very painful thing. Therefore, it's bad.

By a similar logics, we also consider death to be bad because the whole process is obviously very painful — physically and mentally.

You even mentioned that you are afraid of "the unknow". I doubt you would state that feeling afraid of something is not a bad thing. Would you fear something good?! I guess not...!

So, yes... We do know that death is mostly a bad thing.

I'm just gonna respond line by line because it's a lot.
1. I don't count attempts because there is just no way to verify. Someone could claim 5 attempts but never actually attempted and how would we know? Or someone could have 5 legit attempts and never tell anyone. It's not something you can say with certainty. If someone attempts to kill themselves and they die then we can verify that.

2. "The majority of people want to be alive" Majority is 51 percent at least. It's hard to find a study that specifically asks a question like this but if you ask "Are the majority of people in the world happy?" you can find studies that show the majority of people are generally happy.

https://www.ipsos.com/en/global-happiness-six-points-last-year-73-now-say-they-are-happy#:~:text=On%20average%2C%20nearly%20three%20in,and%20the%20Netherlands%20(85%25).

3. Saying something is bad is you labeling it. You can think it'll be bad all you want but until it happens you won't know. You said you were stating a fact when you said death is intrinsically a bad thing and thats just not true lol. I learned about fact and opinion in like 2nd grade.

4. I NEVER said anything about the afterlife. You saying "we know death is mostly a bad thing" is honestly ridiculous. We don't KNOW anything about what happens after death we just we have some ideas.

Yes I mentioned being afraid of the unknown not death lmao. Unknown means you don't know and that's why I fear it.

It's funny you saying "let's talk about things we have minimum evidence for" when the thread you posted to begin with was your opinion and that's fine but someone's else's opinion isn't valid.

And just because we disagree doesn't mean I don't respect or consider what you have to say. I do and I appreciate the fact we're able to have these conversation.

 

[thewalkingdread]

1. I don't count attempts because there is just no way to verify.

I asked you why attempts aren't as "verifiable" as deaths to you... And you just replied with circular reasoning.

You are just assuming that there is just no way to verify them.
Which makes me wonder: How would you verify If a death was an accidental overdose or a suicide?!

Someone could claim 5 attempts but never actually attempted and how would we know?

Unfortunately, some scientific studies have only a patient's self-report to rely on. It is what it is.

So... Yes.
People can lie, people make bad recalls due to having bad memory, etc... But this only shows us how hard it really is to make any serious scientific research.

you can find studies that show the majority of people are generally happy.

I can apply the same skeptical questioning about these studies... People could be lying about how happy they are. How would we know?!

4. I NEVER said anything about the afterlife. You saying "we know death is mostly a bad thing" is honestly ridiculous. We don't KNOW anything about what happens after death we just we have some ideas.

Indeed, you didn't use the word 'afterlife'. But you did implied it's main, general, idea.

And, in fact, you're doing it again right now by repeating the same suggestion you've made before, i. e., that there might be an "afterdeath".

You've said that:

we only know we miss people here on earth when they die

"Here on Earth"... that sounds a pretty strange thing to say. It suggests that people might go to another place after they die.

Therefore, you are making a hidden assumption — that there is an "afterdeath" that takes place at an "afterearth".

And since the one and the same thing doesn't change it's nature regardless of what names we may ascribe to it... you can "label" it as "afterdeath" and I will refer to it by it's common, household, name of "afterlife".

---

I would very much like to continue replying to you point by point, but I'm getting the feeling — by your constant "laughter" — that you are not interested in having any serious debate. Also, I'm really tired now... Maybe I'll get back to it later, maybe not... Who knows?!

 

[breezeboy]

I asked you why attempts aren't as "verifiable" as deaths to you... And you just replied with circular reasoning.

You are just assuming that there is just no way to verify them.
Which makes me wonder: How would you verify If a death was an accidental overdose or a suicide?!

Unfortunately, some scientific studies have only a patient's self-report to rely on. It is what it is.

So... Yes.
People can lie, people make bad recalls due to having bad memory, etc... But this only shows us how hard it really is to make any serious scientific research.



I can apply the same skeptical questioning about these studies... People could be lying about how happy they are. How would we know?!


Indeed, you didn't use the word 'afterlife'. But you did implied it's main, general, idea.

And, in fact, you're doing it again right now by repeating the same suggestion you've made before, i. e., that there might be an "afterdeath".

You've said that:

"Here on Earth"... that sounds a pretty strange thing to say. It suggests that people might go to another place after they die.

Therefore, you are making a hidden assumption — that there is an "afterdeath" that takes place at an "afterearth".

And since the one and the same thing doesn't change it's nature regardless of what names we may ascribe to it... you can "label" it as "afterdeath" and I will refer to it by it's common, household, name of "afterlife".

---

I would very much like to continue replying to you point by point, but I'm getting the feeling — by your constant "laughter" — that you are not interested in having any serious debate. Also, I'm really tired now... Maybe I'll get back to it later, maybe not... Who knows?!

Yeah let's just end the convo here because I don't feel like explaining myself again and even if I did I don't think it would do anything. Debates on opinion rather then fact usually go like that.

I feel no animosity towards you at all and genuinely hope you have good day.

 

[tiger b]

But it's a vent, not a debate. Op is entitled to venting.

 

[thewalkingdread]

But it's a vent, not a debate. Op is entitled to venting.

I'm fine with debating even if the thread was a vent one... To be realistic it's somewhat inevitable.

 

[breezeboy]

I'm fine with debating even if the thread was a vent one... To be realistic it's somewhat inevitable.

@tiger b was right. You did label it venting. I shouldn't have shared my opinion on it.
I apologize.

 

[Tears in Rain]

More than 700 000 people die due to suicide every year, ..56,000,000 people would of died via suicide within the average lifetime but over 1 in every 8 of us would of attempted suicide at least once during our lifetime

700,000 a year, that's 700,000 people who somehow get past their s.i. every year. It gives me hope for when the time comes.

You've lost me with that last stat, what's the '1 in every 8 of us' that you are referring to?