Venting it depresses me how misandry is so normalized.

[alwayspissedoff]

I have the feeling that, if this thread gets any attention, it will be polarizing, so please post your answers with respect.

gender related topics are not something I usually talk with people, but recently I've been having a lot of feelings towards them, so I'll try and vent it here, while still sharing a point of view.

it really saddens me how, mostly in the Internet, actual hate towards men is treated cool, funny or even justified, when for a long time now, misogyny is widely pointed and even punished as an unnacceptable behaviour (which it completely is). many people have the argument that misandry is not a systemic problem like misogyny has been for a long time throughout the human history, and while this is to an extend true, I don't see it as a reason to be a misandric person without any shame. if hating the other gender just for being the other gender is wrong for men, why shouldn't it be also for women?
and also misandry can definitely truly affect men, one can argue not to the same extent as misogyny has, but minimizing it and treating it as nothing is dehumanizing. there have been cases where women have falsely accused men of several things without any proof, for interior reasons such as true hatred towards men, and in many cases people instantly believe them just because they are women (I've seen this personally), and innocent men have paid for it unfairly.

my point is, nor misogyny nor misandry are acceptable things under any terms, and anyone who follows or practices any of them should feel completely ashamed.

this is mainly a vent post, but if anyone wants to share their point of view, just do it with respect.

 

[martyrdom]

The difference is that when women hate men, they ignore, avoid, or joke about them. When men hate women, they rape and kill them.

 

[konkurs]

it largely impacts trans men but no one sees it or talks abt it or cares because no one gaf abt us. they assume because we transitioned we suddenly have cis male privilege (we don't, and that's not how it works lol)

 

[iamanavalanche]

The difference is that when women hate men, they ignore, avoid, or joke about them. When men hate women, they rape and kill them.

agreed.

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

it largely impacts trans men but no one sees it or talks abt it or cares because no one gaf abt us. they assume because we transitioned we suddenly have cis male privilege (we don't, and that's not how it works lol)

THANK YOU. I was going to comment this myself.

I also wanna mention how it affects trans women/femmes because even though they don't identify as men, it still hurts seeing people say "all men are dangerous/disgusting" when their own dysphoria still calls them a man. I have the same issue with misogyny despite being a transman.

And not to mention how it plays into the "trans women in bath/dressing rooms" fearmongering.

 

[rs929]

The difference is that when women hate men, they ignore, avoid, or joke about them. When men hate women, they rape and kill them.

Yeah, like all women were harmless... women are capable of tremendous psychological abuse. Wonder how many of us are suicidal to some extent due to our narcissistic mums. How many men killed themselves because of a toxic partner.
In extreme cases they kill their own children, like it happened to Lucio Dupuy recently in Argentina, killed by his man-hating mother and girlfriend. https://www.batimes.com.ar/news/arg...er-partner-for-the-crime-of-lucio-dupuy.phtml
Sorry but OP is right and misandry is not inoffesive as you want to disguise it here

I have the feeling that, if this thread gets any attention, it will be polarizing, so please post your answers with respect.

gender related topics are not something I usually talk with people, but recently I've been having a lot of feelings towards them, so I'll try and vent it here, while still sharing a point of view.

it really saddens me how, mostly in the Internet, actual hate towards men is treated cool, funny or even justified, when for a long time now, misogyny is widely pointed and even punished as an unnacceptable behaviour (which it completely is). many people have the argument that misandry is not a systemic problem like misogyny has been for a long time throughout the human history, and while this is to an extend true, I don't see it as a reason to be a misandric person without any shame. if hating the other gender just for being the other gender is wrong for men, why shouldn't it be also for women?
and also misandry can definitely truly affect men, one can argue not to the same extent as misogyny has, but minimizing it and treating it as nothing is dehumanizing. there have been cases where women have falsely accused men of several things without any proof, for interior reasons such as true hatred towards men, and in many cases people instantly believe them just because they are women (I've seen this personally), and innocent men have paid for it unfairly.

my point is, nor misogyny nor misandry are acceptable things under any terms, and anyone who follows or practices any of them should feel completely ashamed.

this is mainly a vent post, but if anyone wants to share their point of view, just do it with respect.

It depresses me as well, you are not alone.

 

[iamanavalanche]

Yeah, like all women were harmless... women are capable of tremendous psychological abuse. Wonder how many of us are suicidal to some extent due to our narcissistic mums. How many men killed themselves because of a toxic partner.
In extreme cases they kill their own children, like it happened to Lucio Dupuy recently in Argentina, killed by his man-hating mother and girlfriend. https://www.batimes.com.ar/news/arg...er-partner-for-the-crime-of-lucio-dupuy.phtml
Sorry but OP is right and misandry is not inoffesive as you want to disguise it here


It depresses me as well, you are not alone.

except those arent gender-based crimes. yes women can be dangerous and harmful and violent. but most gender-based crimes are men towards women. as much as you guys want to victimise yourselves because you dont want to admit the vivid and unneeded fear women (like myself) face

 

[martyrdom]

Yeah, like all women were harmless... women are capable of tremendous psychological abuse. Wonder how many of us are suicidal to some extent due to our narcissistic mums. How many men killed themselves because of a toxic partner.
In extreme cases they kill their own children, like it happened to Lucio Dupuy recently in Argentina, killed by his man-hating mother and girlfriend.
Sorry but OP is right and misandry is not inoffesive as you want to disguise it here

Nobody is saying women are incapable of harm, but they generally don't harm men because they are men. Misandry does not exist as a systemic institutionalized structure of oppression. And misogyny is not just normalized, it is institutionalized - misandry never has been and never will be. The two are not remotely comparable, and a lot of women's distrust towards men is a normal and healthy reaction of an oppressed group reacting to their oppression in a rational way.

 

[iamanavalanche]

Nobody is saying women are incapable of harm, but they generally don't harm men because they are men. Misandry does not exist as a systemic institutionalized structure of oppression. And misogyny is not just normalized, it is institutionalized - misandry never has been and never will be. The two are not remotely comparable, and a lot of women's distrust towards men is a normal and healthy reaction of an oppressed group reacting to their oppression in a rational way.

100% exactly put

 

[alwayspissedoff]

except those arent gender-based crimes. yes women can be dangerous and harmful and violent. but most gender-based crimes are men towards women. as much as you guys want to victimise yourselves because you dont want to admit the vivid and unneeded fear women (like myself) face

I'm sorry but did you even read the article that rs929 shared? how can you be so sure that what those people commited wan't gender based? and I don't think pointing out that 2 women killed and raped a child is victimizing, sorry.

 

[Grog]

Both misogyny and misandry are bad. It's not a competition.

 

[socksnsandles]

statistically what percentage of anything bad (rape, murder, crime, etc) is accounted for by men. theres your answer. ofc this doesnt excuse misandry, but it explains the reason why its more justified than misogyny.

-a guy

 

[rs929]

The systemic institutionalized structure you call "patriarchy" just doesn't exist in the west. You haven't been opressed by men
for a long time. You can vote, wear whatever you want, work, be indepedent.
That's not the case in middle east, but feminists usually just don't care about that

Life as a woman in the middle east

I hate being a woman in this society i know my life would have been 10 times better if i were a man. Sure they are not immune to depression and what not but they still can walk outside without being forced to cover their whole body. They don't need to be accompanied by a male figure whenever...

www.sanctioned-suicide.net

I can also tell you that Lucio Dupuy was killed because he was a male. It was gender based
I'm sorry but I'm not going to discuss this furthermore due to mental health reasons. You can throw me all your "YOUR violence is worse" instead of just admitting that all kind of violence is just wrong. Bye

 

[martyrdom]

That's not the case in middle east, but feminists usually just don't care about that

And how exactly would you know this? I am from the middle east and the feminists I know (who are not in the middle east) talk about it constantly.

Besides, tell me, is rape no longer a problem in the west? Is domestic violence against women solved in the west? Are there no fraternities routinely raping women in their parties? Is femicide no longer a problem in the west? Can women walk the streets at night freely? Are women not cat called or sexually harassed in the west? Are women's health issues well-researched and funded in the west? Is trafficking no longer a problem in the west? Didn't the west just elect a rapist for a president? And why would you even assume the people disagreeing with you are in the west? I can go on and on.

 

[Lest3]

The systemic institutionalized structure you call "patriarchy" just doesn't exist in the west. You haven't been opressed by men
for a long time. You can vote, wear whatever you want, work, be indepedent.
That's not the case in middle east, but feminists usually just don't care about that

Life as a woman in the middle east

I hate being a woman in this society i know my life would have been 10 times better if i were a man. Sure they are not immune to depression and what not but they still can walk outside without being forced to cover their whole body. They don't need to be accompanied by a male figure whenever...

www.sanctioned-suicide.net

I can also tell you that Lucio Dupuy was killed because he was a male. It was gender based
I'm sorry but I'm not going to discuss this furthermore due to mental health reasons. You can throw me all your "YOUR violence is worse" instead of just admitting that all kind of violence is just wrong. Bye

systemic oppression is different than systematic oppression. I think you're talking about the latter as opposed to the former.

I will say, though, that it is quite odd that the bottom percent of men are treated as if they benefit from the patriarchy in the mainstream.

 

[rustcohle4life]

The difference is that when women hate men, they ignore, avoid, or joke about them. When men hate women, they rape and kill them.

That doesn't excuse Misandry as not all men rape and kill women. Also, women can do a lot more than ignore men they don't like, they can cause a lot of social, emotional, and legal damage.

At the end of the day, no sex is morally superior, so no one even attempt to go there.

 

[martyrdom]

That doesn't excuse Misandry. Also, women can do a lot more than ignore, they can cause a lot of social, emotional, and legal damage.

Just like everyone else, yes, but when women do that, it's not gender based in the way it usually is when men do it to women, that's the point. Social, emotional and legal damage is still not on the same level as rape and murder, either.
Misandry is a perfectly rational response to centuries of female oppression by men. I see it the same way as Palestinians hating Israelis, black people hating white people (in the context of America, South Africa, etc), the poor hating the rich, and so on and so forth.

 

[U. A.]

lol

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

Nobody is saying women are incapable of harm, but they generally don't harm men because they are men. Misandry does not exist as a systemic institutionalized structure of oppression. And misogyny is not just normalized, it is institutionalized - misandry never has been and never will be. The two are not remotely comparable, and a lot of women's distrust towards men is a normal and healthy reaction of an oppressed group reacting to their oppression in a rational way.

I mostly agree, but I would like to add that distrust as a whole isn't misandry. I have a hard time trusting cis men and I'm... also a man.

 

[martyrdom]

I agree, but I would like to add that distrust as a whole isn't misandry. I have a hard time trusting cis men and I'm... also a man.

I'm a cis man and I'm world's #1 man hater on this planet. But I fundamentally don't believe misandry exists at all, at least not in any meaningful or institutionalized way. It's like saying there's discrimination against the rich lol.

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

I will say, though, that it is quite odd that the bottom percent of men are treated as if they benefit from the patriarchy in the mainstream.

Because they (cis men) do, just not to the extent that most men do. The patriarchy is way more complex than people realize.

 

[iamanavalanche]

The systemic institutionalized structure you call "patriarchy" just doesn't exist in the west. You haven't been opressed by men
for a long time. You can vote, wear whatever you want, work, be indepedent.
That's not the case in middle east, but feminists usually just don't care about that

Life as a woman in the middle east

I hate being a woman in this society i know my life would have been 10 times better if i were a man. Sure they are not immune to depression and what not but they still can walk outside without being forced to cover their whole body. They don't need to be accompanied by a male figure whenever...

www.sanctioned-suicide.net

I can also tell you that Lucio Dupuy was killed because he was a male. It was gender based
I'm sorry but I'm not going to discuss this furthermore due to mental health reasons. You can throw me all your "YOUR violence is worse" instead of just admitting that all kind of violence is just wrong. Bye

i live in the west and have been literally SA throughout my entire life. i have not experienced a year without SA since the age of 13 and have experienced first counts of SA at 7yrs old (as far as i can remember). ive been raped at an average of 150x in my lifetime and refuse to go outside with makeup/dressing up outside of baggy clothes because of being stalked/catcalled/harassed. one of the last times i went out with friends, i was sexually assaulted by two men and then almost raped by another. i have been almost sex trafficked + kidnapped by a pedophile man plus had a man attempt to find my location without me knowing just to get to me. ive also been groomed a total of 4x throughout the age of 13-16 years old by older men. yes i am oppressed by men lmfao

 

[WhiteRabbit]

Misandry is a hate crime

(lol)

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

I'm a cis man and I'm world's #1 man hater on this planet. But I fundamentally don't believe misandry exists at all, at least not in any meaningful or institutionalized way. It's like saying there's discrimination against the rich lol.

I only believe it exists in certain situations—meaningful, but certainly not institutionalized.

My time in the queer community has shown that yes, it does exist. I suspect a big reason that I didn't come out as a man earlier is because I had a time where I hung out in spaces where queer non-men would make fun of men as a whole. Specifically, there were a some lesbians who parused certain areas online, and they were... a lot.

And no, I don't mean "I don't like men," "Men gross me out" or anything that mild. They were transmysogynistic too since they saw transwomen as men.

 

[martyrdom]

I only believe it exists in certain situations—meaningful, but certainly not institutionalized.

My time in the queer community has shown that yes, it does exist. I suspect a big reason that I didn't come out as a man earlier is because I had a time where I hung out in spaces where queer non-men would make fun of men as a whole. Specifically, there were a some lesbians who parused certain areas online, and they were... a lot.

And no, I don't mean "I don't like men," "Men gross me out" or anything that mild. They were transmysogynistic too.

I understood maybe 10% of the words you just said so I'll take your word for it, I'm unfortunately not educated on what you're talking about at all.

 

[U. A.]

i live in the west and have been literally SA throughout my entire life. i have not experienced a year without SA since the age of 13 and have experienced first counts of SA at 7yrs old (as far as i can remember). ive been raped at an average of 150x in my lifetime and refuse to go outside with makeup/dressing up outside of baggy clothes because of being stalked/catcalled/harassed. one of the last times i went out with friends, i was sexually assaulted by two men and then almost raped by another. i have been almost sex trafficked + kidnapped by a pedophile man plus had a man attempt to find my location without me knowing just to get to me. ive also been groomed a total of 4x throughout the age of 13-16 years old by older men. yes i am oppressed my men lmfao

No no you don't understand, that's not oppression, it's just uh...some particular men doing bad things, yeah - that must be it. Women aren't oppressed anymore!

 

[martyrdom]

No no you don't understand, that's not oppression, it's just uh...some particular men doing bad things, yeah - that must be it. Women aren't oppressed anymore!

They're isolated instances. That happen to affect 90%~ of women and happen to be 99%~ committed by men. For no reason at all.

 

[rs929]

I love how nobody gives a shit about symphatizing with OP that said the situation depresses him. You all need to invalidate him and insist that women have it worse. And you also make some room to be funny and do a circle jerk about it. I think some of you are despicable people.

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

I guess my take is this:

Is misandry a thing? Yes, but not in the way incels and the like claim

Is it systemic/institutionalized? No, definitely not.

Does it actually harm men? It can.

Does it usually harm non-cis/queer men more though? YES.

Is it comparable to misogyny statistical harm-wise?
No, but only because trans men aren't statistically common. If we were, it absolutely would be.

I have had trans friends be kicked out of spaces for trauma survivors after they transitioned, just because they identify as men now. These are trans men who are victims of gender-based violence, but because we don't identify as that gender, we are ignored.

So, basically... transmisandry is the most harmful type of misandry. The issue is that traditional misandry still feeds into transmisandry since society doesn't really understand gender like at all.

 

[iamanavalanche]

well being raped 150x and almost sex trafficked and SA in the most gruesome ways possible for most of my life by men depresses me too lol

I love how nobody gives a shit about symphatizing with OP that said the situation depresses him. You all need to invalidate him and insist that women have it worse. And you also make some room to be funny and do a circle jerk about it. I think some of you are despicable people.