Isn't it strange that ctb is so difficult?

[theshund]

Why is it?

 

[wiggy]

If there weren't an extremely strong survival mechanism keeping you from doing it, humanity would have gone extinct a long time ago. It's likely an adaptation that far predates humans.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

It's very difficult for many reasons. the worst reason is they made every guaranteed easy way of committing suicide a crime.

They made it a crime for you to pay someone to inject you with Nembutal or fentanyl , heroin, or morphine .

they made hiring someone to help you with suicide a crime. it's a trillion times easier for someone else to inject me with Nembutal or to kill me with a gun than for me to do it . for one thing trying to shoot myself with a gun i only get one shot while they get as many as it takes. also i don't have to defeat si to shoot myself . it's much easier to pay someone to shoot me than to look down the barrel of a shotgun and pull the trigger. someone shooting me in the back of the head i won't feel it and i'll be out unconscious in a micro second and dead instantly..
there are many others like someone else injecting you with nembutal , fentanyl, morphine , heroin ( all painless).

also they criminalized diy nembutal , fentanyl , suicide booths ( sarco) , suicide kits and machines , heroin, morphine, cyanide capsules

Heroin and morphine were legal over the counter before they made those a crime here in the evil U.S.

if Heroin or morphine were still legal over the counter then you could be certain it's pure and know exactly how much to inject or intake. and it would be cheap too. these are pain killers so you wouldn't feel any pain at all.

 

[Kbeau]

If there weren't an extremely strong survival mechanism keeping you from doing it, humanity would have gone extinct a long time ago. It's likely an adaptation that far predates humans.

Good point

 

[sadsoni]

I wonder why the right to die is not even up for consideration in any bill of rights. I mean considering noone ever consented to be born in the first place.

If there weren't an extremely strong survival mechanism keeping you from doing it, humanity would have gone extinct a long time ago. It's likely an adaptation that far predates humans.

The universe minus humanity would probably be much better.

 

[wiggy]

I wonder why the right to die is not even up for consideration in any bill of rights. I mean considering noone ever consented to be born in the first place.

It serves no social function and can't really be constrained outside of edge cases. Where it can be constrained, such as in the case of severe illness, there's a fair amount of debate on whether it should be recognized.

 

[sadsoni]

It's very difficult for many reasons. the worst reason is they made every guaranteed easy way of committing suicide a crime.

They made it a crime for you to pay someone to inject you with Nembutal or fentanyl , heroin, or morphine .

they made hiring someone to help you with suicide a crime. it's a trillion times easier for someone else inject me with Nembutal or to kill me with a gun than for me to do it . for one thing trying to shoot myself with a gun i only get one shot while they get as many as it takes. also i don't have to defeat si to shoot myself . it's much easier to pay someone to shoot me than to look down the barrel of a shotgun and pull the trigger. someone shooting me in the back of the head i won't feel it and i'll be out unconscious in a micro second and dead instantly..
there are many others like someone else injecting you with nembutal , fentanyl, morphine , heroin ( all painless).

also diy nembutal , fentanyl , suicide booths ( sarco) , suicide kits and machines , cyanide capsules

Heroin and morphine were legal over the counter before they made those a crime here in the evil U.S.

Even an idiot can off you with an axe. No sophistication would be needed if you remove the legal constraints.

 

[usernamenoonecares]

I guess. I worry about getting people around me in trouble, especially people engaged with me positively. If everyone hates me, then it would make things a lot easier.

 

[Forveleth]

Millions of years of evolution have programmed living things to do all they can to stay alive. Literally every function in your body exists to make sure you keep living (except the few that are dedicated to making more copies of you). It is very annoying.

 

[sadsoni]

O

Millions of years of evolution have programmed living things to do all they can to stay alive. Literally every function in your body exists to make sure you keep living (except the few that are dedicated to making more copies of you). It is very annoying.

One might expect the SI to evolve with the environment as in overpopulation, climate change, wars, pollution, etc. A few dead SaSuers shouldn't threaten humanity.

 

[opheliaoveragain]

SI is biologically built in. it is absolutely frustrating. the key is finding a method you're comfortable with in theory and maybe research so you know what to expect.

I wouldn't necessarily recommend this but exposure "therapy" via videos and so on could help, but could also make the fear feeling worse, which we don't want. be mindful. we're here for you.

 

[LifeIsASadist]

Its so funny how suicide is so easy for the non suicidal

 

[blackIronPrison]

Millions of years of evolution have programmed living things to do all they can to stay alive. Literally every function in your body exists to make sure you keep living (except the few that are dedicated to making more copies of you). It is very annoying.

This exactly. Even the more ephemeral functions can be argued that they at least distract you from death. As far as we know we are the only living thing that is actively aware we are going to die.

Of course not to say it is wrong or anything like that, its just a uniquely human thing and we aren't well equipped to deal with it. The idea of having innate rights is unique to us let alone the right to die.

 

[theboy]

survival instinct

 

[divinemistress36]

It sucks your body doesnt give a flying fuck about your happiness only survival

 

[myfaultneverlived]

O

One might expect the SI to evolve with the environment as in overpopulation, climate change, wars, pollution, etc. A few dead SaSuers shouldn't threaten humanity.

i think si can only get stronger unless most suicides are by parents. like we're selecting against our suicidal thoughts by following through

 

[Darkover]

From an evolutionary standpoint, creatures that lacked a strong survival instinct didn't pass on their genes. The ones that fought to survive—even in miserable conditions—were the ones that reproduced, making survival a dominant trait in humans today and partly due to cultural, religious, and economic reasons.


Governments and institutions don't want people to opt out because economies rely on a functioning workforce. Laws and mental health systems are designed to prevent people from acting on those thoughts. Even physically, the human body fights to survive, making peaceful and reliable methods harder to access.


At the same time, suffering is widespread, and people are often left to deal with it with little real support. It's a contradiction—life can be unbearably hard, but leaving it is made just as hard.

 

[derekWest]

Hypercapnic response : the main obstacle I think.

 

[Forveleth]

One might expect the SI to evolve with the environment as in overpopulation, climate change, wars, pollution, etc. A few dead SaSuers shouldn't threaten humanity.

The only way evolution happens is by passing on genes to the next generation. Kind of hard to do that if you are dead. Those who most easily overcame SI and died are no longer around to make offspring that are more likely to overcome SI.

 

[FuneralCry]

It is to me as after all I'm so cruelly denied the option to peacefully free myself from this existence and never suffer ever again with suffering seen as to force and prolong no matter what instead, it truly is all just so cruel and dreadful to me and I'd just never wish to suffer in this existence I always saw as the most terrible tragic mistake, I suffer so much from how I cannot just have a death like never waking ever again. Non-existence truly is always preferable for me than the cruelty and torture of human existence where there is no limit as to how much agony one can feel all while they are just waiting to not exist anyway, it's horrific to me how trying to not exist can go wrong and lead to way worse agony as a result, all I hope and wish for is to never suffer ever again, I just wish and for peace from the suffering of this existence that was so tragically imposed in the first place.

 

[Rymrgand]

Even an idiot can off you with an axe. No sophistication would be needed if you remove the legal constraints.

The problem with that is that if you completely remove the legal constraints, anyone could kill another person and then say that the victim was suicidal. And even in cases of assisted suicide, predators could encourage and give, let's say, a gun, to someone who is not really suicidal but is having some kind of crisis.

I do agree that the right to die should be legal (like it's already happening in some countries, where euthanasia and assisted suicide is getting less and less limited), but it should be strictly regulated.

 

[theshund]

The problem with that is that if you completely remove the legal constraints, anyone could kill another person and then say that the victim was suicidal. And even in cases of assisted suicide, predators could encourage and give, let's say, a gun, to someone who is not really suicidal but is having some kind of crisis.

I do agree that the right to die should be legal (like it's already happening in some countries, where euthanasia and assisted suicide is getting less and less limited), but it should be strictly regulated.

But that right to die in other countries still doesn't include suicide. It only applies to the terminally ill or people so old and infirm, their suffering is intolerable and their contribution to society is zero. The long and short seems to be, if you can work and pay taxes you ain't legally going anywhere buddy.

Not related to your comment but others in this thread, I don't think resistance to suicide is necessarily an evolutionary trait. If it were nobody would feel suicidal, or there would be a strong natural urge not to contemplate it.

Also, a person can produce offspring then ctb, so their suicidal tendencies and depressive symptoms which lead to ctb do get passed down the evolutionary tree. This is especially true in early stages of evolved intelligence before social etiquette turned making babies into a complex cultural phenomenon that happens in (relative) later life. Not saying Darwinism doesn't play a role, but I think SI is more primal than that.

I also wonder if (answering my own query) SI is a collective thing and part of the hive mind. There is always such a strong reaction to the subject. People focus on the ripple effects of suicide, as if the consequences matter more than the act itself or the pain of the person who was so desperate to escape they literally ended their own universe. I always feel like the hive mind is a selfish sob, cares only for the good of the many at any cost. Which is depressing and makes me wish I wasn't part of it. The collective supports these anti-suicide laws because they serve the many rather than the individual. I hope one day we stop seeing this as a positive because it's precisely why the rights of minorities and vulnerable people so often get trampled.

In short, if I want to die I shouldn't have to justify why or be restricted in that choice just because society favours a topical and arbitrary set of moralistic rules. I also believe drugs should be legalized. The same people who support abortion (my body, my choice) denounce suicide. Right wingers don't run the courts and medical institutions and they don't operate end of life clinics where the rules deny death to anyone who isn't terminally sick. I feel like the right would be open to changes in the law if it meant getting rid of the perceived weak in society. Not flattering, but I'll take it if it means I can exit painlessly and out of choice.

 

[Rymrgand]

Not related to your comment but others in this thread, I don't think resistance to suicide is necessarily an evolutionary trait. If it were nobody would feel suicidal, or there would be a strong natural urge not to contemplate it.

Also, a person can produce offspring then ctb, so their suicidal tendencies and depressive symptoms which lead to ctb do get passed down the evolutionary tree. This is especially true in early stages of evolved intelligence before social etiquette turned making babies into a complex cultural phenomenon that happens in (relative) later life. Not saying Darwinism doesn't play a role, but I think SI is more primal than that.

Resistance to suicide is definitely an evolutionary trait. You say that there would be a strong natural urge not to contemplate it... but it exists! Your mind will try to reject any thought of suicide, and the only way you may want to CTB is if you are being completely rational, and therefore you are not using your own emotions and instincts to think about it, or if you are ill, and therefore you are "broken" and your body has lost its capacity to survive.

And yes, a person can produce offspring then CTB, but if they didn't CTB they would produce more offspring. And even if you are not going to produce offspring, mammals still fulfill other roles in their families, like protecting and educating their offspring so they survive. The only moment when they would be able to lose their SI is when they are too old. But nature is not perfect, and having too much SI is better than having too little SI. Besides that, I think some animals start losing their SI when they become really old.

Every one of our natural features, every part of us that it's "primal", it is an evolutionary trait. The only reason we are animals and not a bacteria or something is because of evolution.

 

[Electra]

Most likely strong SI powered by evolution.

 

[The_Hunter]

it is a fundamentally shocking and scary act. you may call it "SI" but i don't think it the most clear of ways to pathologize one's (very real) feelings against this very hard to accept action for one's self.

The reality of suicide is that it demands a level of harm & suffering to be forcefully inflicted upon one's self. People don't like pain, suffering, and coercion; all of which feature forefront in the execution of suicide. This is why people have significant firsthand aversion to suicide. It is a fundamentally aversible act; to be 100% at peace with it is the exception and not the norm--the vast majority of people only want parts of the suicidal experience: not all of it. 'Yes' to the power, the independence, the dissociation--no to the bodily harm, the permanence, the melancholy & loneliness. Is it perfect? No. Absolutely not. It's messy, it's brutal; it's not pretty. This very fact is one of the criticisms I make of suicide; and one of the reasons I don't regard it as an ideal solution at all.

 

[Goodfornothingbish]

it is a fundamentally shocking and scary act. you may call it "SI" but i don't think it the most clear of ways to pathologize one's (very real) feelings against this very hard to accept action for one's self.

The reality of suicide is that it demands a level of harm & suffering to be forcefully inflicted upon one's self. People don't like pain, suffering, and coercion; all of which feature forefront in the execution of suicide. This is why people have significant firsthand aversion to suicide. It is a fundamentally aversible act; to be 100% at peace with it is the exception and not the norm--the vast majority of people only want parts of the suicidal experience: not all of it. 'Yes' to the power, the independence, the dissociation--no to the bodily harm, the permanence, the melancholy & loneliness. Is it perfect? No. Absolutely not. It's messy, it's brutal; it's not pretty. This very fact is one of the criticisms I make of suicide; and one of the reasons I don't regard it as an ideal solution at all.

That's sort of why suicide is concerned a problem. Its because it shouldn't be the ideal solution and if it is that means there's a problem that should be handled.

But you the mess and brutality, I think that may people here don't want that for the sake of their family. They don't want their family or friends to walk into something even more traumatic. Other's don't want to end their life the same way it was lived. Some do just idealize the power, independence and dissociation, but even then. Its still inherently a problem that should be dealt with though.

 

[The_Hunter]

That's sort of why suicide is concerned a problem. Its because it shouldn't be the ideal solution and if it is that means there's a problem that should be handled.

I think I agree, my friend. That too, but I also feel it doesn't practically fulfill it's purpose as an adequate solution--and is therefore so unpreferable to the point of being a choice so low on the collective ranking of actions that it is close enough to the truth to say that it's nearly always not the right move. (Suicide is by default the unwanted choice; it only even enters consideration in desperate circumstances: I believe this is a key detail.)

But you the mess and brutality, I think that may people here don't want that for the sake of their family. They don't want their family or friends to walk into something even more traumatic.

I do indeed agree with you here as well. I believe many suicidal people are deeply distraught by the idea of the grief that will follow their absence, proceeded by an intimate moral guilt out of a deep wish to avoid hurting their friends and family. This desire to try and want to work towards bettering the lives of others through avoiding the shock that their death would bring, interacts with the inherent struggles of suicidality in a complex way, that is not often mentioned enough. So, so many suicidal people deeply care for and deeply love their family and friends; and they don't want their loved ones to feel grief.

I hope that as many of them as possible are able to heal from whatever they are enpained by, and be able to continue existing in relation to that love with those they care about most. I feel that wish to avoid pain in others is a valid one--and even noble, if I may dare say. I might not address the other side of it, but I will acknowledge that it does exist. It's a difficult choice for sure. It's best to be overthought, for the sake of all involved. I feel sometimes the difficult choice of sticking it out is often a fair one, and that's what I purport, even if others may feel differently.

Other's don't want to end their life the same way it was lived. Some do just idealize the power, independence and dissociation, but even then. Its still inherently a problem that should be dealt with though.

A powerfully written statement, and elegantly worded. Kudos to you for putting such complex ideas into such terseness. Thank you for your words!

 

[Halfhourdays]

SI vs reason. I wish my body would listen to my heart.

 

[Goodfornothingbish]

I think I agree, my friend. That too, but I also feel it doesn't practically fulfill it's purpose as an adequate solution--and is therefore so unpreferable to the point of being a choice so low on the collective ranking of actions that it is close enough to the truth to say that it's nearly always not the right move. (Suicide is by default the unwanted choice; it only even enters consideration in desperate circumstances: I believe this is a key detail.)

I do indeed agree with you here as well. I believe many suicidal people are deeply distraught by the idea of the grief that will follow their absence, proceeded by an intimate moral guilt out of a deep wish to avoid hurting their friends and family. This desire to try and want to work towards bettering the lives of others through avoiding the shock that their death would bring, interacts with the inherent struggles of suicidality in a complex way, that is not often mentioned enough. So, so many suicidal people deeply care for and deeply love their family and friends; and they don't want their loved ones to feel grief.

I hope that as many of them as possible are able to heal from whatever they are enpained by, and be able to continue existing in relation to that love with those they care about most. I feel that wish to avoid pain in others is a valid one--and even noble, if I may dare say. I might not address the other side of it, but I will acknowledge that it does exist. It's a difficult choice for sure. It's best to be overthought, for the sake of all involved. I feel sometimes the difficult choice of sticking it out is often a fair one, and that's what I purport, even if others may feel differently.

A powerfully written statement, and elegantly worded. Kudos to you for putting such complex ideas into such terseness. Thank you for your words!

I'm glad you agree.

God I wish my mouth matched my some of typing. You are always complimenting it.