Discussion Is there a gender bias in the way society responds to suicide?

[FTL.Wanderer]

Do we treat males and females who talk about their serious suicidal thoughts similarly?

 

[lemmeeleev]

If you're a girl they will probably think you're not actually going to do it and just need someone to talk to you and say they care and everything will be good after that. I'm not a guy, but I could imagine you'd be seen as weak and told to get over it like that's going to help.

 

[Plankter]

Females are usually regarded as more fragile by nature so they're usually given more attention than males, however this might also turn into a disadvantage since people will be more likely to assume that in a female's case she is just faking it for attention. Most people aren't bright enough to judge people independently of the social assumptions they were indoctrinated with.

 

[AveryConure]

There's a lot of studies talking about how women mostly attempt suicide but might end up not taking as seriously cause they could be seen as being dramatic or attention seeking, but men end up going thru with it cause of toxic masculinity and how many of them are not encouraged to get professional help. Especially for diagnoses that are "feminine" like Borderline and eating disorders.

I saw a guy in a hospital struggle for a long time to get help cause he legitimately had BPD but cause it was considered a "female disorder" he was never taken seriously. Imo men actually get the shittier end of the stick on this.

 

[lostangel]

There's a lot of studies talking about how women mostly attempt suicide but might end up not taking as seriously cause they could be seen as being dramatic or attention seeking, but men end up going thru with it cause of toxic masculinity and how many of them are not encouraged to get professional help. Especially for diagnoses that are "feminine" like Borderline and eating disorders.

I saw a guy in a hospital struggle for a long time to get help cause he legitimately had BPD but cause it was considered a "female disorder" he was never taken seriously. Imo men actually get the shittier end of the stick on this.

yes us guys do especially in relationships were supposed to be the 'strong' person mentally and emotionally and that is really hard for some of us as we have a terrible self esteem and people will talk behind our backs and laugh at us if they see how much we actually hurt and cry. I sadly know from experience :-(

 

[ron_g]

Not directly an answer to your question, but I once read the notion that while it is usually males who suicide, it is largely females who try to prevent suicide. I think it was a comment on the speakingofsuicide site.

 

[salvation]

Yes but there is also a gender bias of how gender bias affects the way people respond to suicide

 

[TAW122]

I believe there is, as society at large generally treats suicidal females with more of sympathy and pity, but also like @Plankter said, society also sees them as attention seekers, which is rather annoying and frustrating because not all females are attention seeking nor are all males like that either. In regards to males, I think society generally doesn't show much sympathy but rather a man-up, pull yourself up by your bootstraps attitude towards men.

Also, yes men are generally more successful than women when attempting suicide as men often choose more lethal means to do so (hanging, firearms, jumping, and other more extreme methods) while women go for methods that are less extreme and also have a lower success rate such as OD'ing and cutting.

 

[BellaKAT]

There's a lot of studies talking about how women mostly attempt suicide but might end up not taking as seriously cause they could be seen as being dramatic or attention seeking, but men end up going thru with it cause of toxic masculinity and how many of them are not encouraged to get professional help. Especially for diagnoses that are "feminine" like Borderline and eating disorders.

I saw a guy in a hospital struggle for a long time to get help cause he legitimately had BPD but cause it was considered a "female disorder" he was never taken seriously. Imo men actually get the shittier end of the stick on this.

Very interesting and true. Another point to note is the methods used by men vs women. Men are more inclined to use guns where as woman are more inclined to overdose. Obviously guns prove far more fatal. Whether women's suicide attempts from ods are real or just for attention - who's to say. But I think because of how genders are socialized men are more inclined to use violent and often fatal methods.

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

Not directly an answer to your question, but I once read the notion that while it is usually males who suicide, it is largely females who try to prevent suicide. I think it was a comment on the speakingofsuicide site.

I've read research in social psychology that one gender is statistically more emotively empathetic (expressing feelings about things) while another is more likely to act to help.

 

[GeorgeJL]

As a guy I've told all my family and friends that I plan on ending my life when I am an old man and none of them have showed great disappointment or anything like that. I would imagine the same would be true for my sister if she said the same thing. But I am pretty stable mentally so perhaps that is why they don't show great concern.

 

[Zaynaldeen]

Women usually get more attention and are being taken more seriously, meanwhile men often get told to 'man up' even though they are way more likely to commit suicide. There is obviously a gender bias.

 

[MistakesHappen]

yes us guys do especially in relationships were supposed to be the 'strong' person mentally and emotionally and that is really hard for some of us as we have a terrible self esteem and people will talk behind our backs and laugh at us if they see how much we actually hurt and cry. I sadly know from experience :-(

I know that feel man.

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

I know that feel man.
View attachment 9310

Dude, that's a TERRIFIC hug-graphic.

 

[MistakesHappen]

Dude, that's a TERRIFIC hug-graphic.

Why lol?

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

Why lol?

Well, I, for one, haven't been hugged since my mother died loooong ago. You've probably read the articles about the evidence that (platonic) physical intimacy directly improves health, and that too little of it, like not getting enough vitamin Z..., can make people physically and emotionally sick. So I thought it was really cool that you'd offer someone who seemed to need one a hug-image. A lot of people just never get the support and comfort of a hug...

 

[MistakesHappen]

Well, I, for one, haven't been hugged since my mother died loooong ago.

Sorry to hear this, everyone needs a mother and a hug.

internet-hug

You've probably read the articles about the evidence that (platonic) physical intimacy directly improves health, and that too little of it, like not getting enough vitamin Z..., can make people physically and emotionally sick.

I've read something similar to this, but not about physical intimacy.
The more you know

I still don't get why you found the pic terrific tho, lol

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

I still don't get why you found the pic terrific tho, lol

"Terrific" for two reasons: (1) the image of a hug left a stronger impression than just the expression "hugs!" (or anything similar); (2) the people hugging were just average-looking--not professional models, which reinforced the notion that average people, not just movie stars, are worthy of a supportive hug.

 

[MistakesHappen]

Ow, now i get it. English is not my first language, and 'Terrific' is really similar to 'Terrificante' which means 'Frightening' in Italian, that's why i wasn't understanding your reaction.

Yeah it's a strong reaction pic, i always stare at it for a few seconds before sending it.

 

[Jodes]

Doctors bias towards what men say if they're in pain. Fact

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

Just got this in my inbox. Thought I'd share:

kelly ####### commented on Why Prevent Suicide? Here Are My Reasons... in response to Stacey Freedenthal:

"If someone's life is so awful that they want to die by suicide, why stop them?" I am frequently asked some variation of this question, even by mental health professionals. Once, a therapist told me about a client of hers with schizophrenia. "He is miserable, and he will always have schizophrenia. I think letting him … Continue reading Why Prevent Suicide? Here Are My Reasons.

hi my brother went to his gp and told him that he tried to commit suicide the week before but it didn't work he told the gp he was still wanting to die the doctor sent him away and told him it would pass in a couple of days well a couple of days later he hanged his self this was 2 weeks ago I blame the gp the gp should have listened u could tell by looking at him there was something wrong with him

Doctors bias towards what men say if they're in pain. Fact

Can you share more? Are you saying doctors pay more attention to male patients who express they're in pain? Thanks for elaborating--I just want to make sure I'm understanding.

 

[Jodes]

D

Can you share more? Are you saying doctors pay more attention to male patients who express they're in pain? Thanks for elaborating--I just want to make sure I'm understanding.

Correct - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/26/gender-pain-gap-doctors-women-healthcare

I wonder if that's now enough information to identify me!

Anyway - sorry - and I'm sure there are more articles that how how patients are driven to suicide by lack of adequate care. In some mental health disorders such as BPD it is accepted that it is not possible to really stop someone committing suicide eventually. Proactive means need to be adopted to have the individual happily engaging in society again.

This means vulnerable individuals should be spotted early. Even identified as vulnerable to becoming vulnerable. Then diagnose and treat early. Doing the opposite drags it out for the drug companies

 

[not-2-b-the-answer]

Just my personal opinion .. I don't think men & women are treated the same.
I know as a guy I'm expected to be strong … be a man.
Wish I could be but I still want to die.
I don't know what it's like for women obviously … I hope they have it easier and are treated better.

 

[Jodes]

Just my personal opinion .. I don't think men & women are treated the same.
I know as a guy I'm expected to be strong … be a man.
Wish I could be but I still want to die.
I don't know what it's like for women obviously … I hope they have it easier and are treated better.

More men kill themselves, women get abused 10-100 times more.
Maybe it's a weird yin-yang sex karma. Meaning men deserve to die and women should get abused less

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

D
Correct - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/26/gender-pain-gap-doctors-women-healthcare

I wonder if that's now enough information to identify me!

Anyway - sorry - and I'm sure there are more articles that how how patients are driven to suicide by lack of adequate care. In some mental health disorders such as BPD it is accepted that it is not possible to really stop someone committing suicide eventually. Proactive means need to be adopted to have the individual happily engaging in society again.

This means vulnerable individuals should be spotted early. Even identified as vulnerable to becoming vulnerable. Then diagnose and treat early. Doing the opposite drags it out for the drug companies

I've done some work with teams that looks at gender-bias in diagnosis and treatment in the US. What I've learned is that although there are measurable associations between gender and diagnosis, gender and prognosis, gender and treatment, and gender and longterm outcomes, the popular belief that physicians (and other healthcare workers) work under implicit pro-male gender bias is statistically challenged in a growing number of critically assessed sub-disciplines like mental health. In mental health, for example, there is a significant statistical association between gender and presenting comorbidity for both new and historic patients. The early assumptions that this reflected practitioners' underlying biases has been increasingly challenged by cross-cultural observational studies and experiments (Mattia JI, Zimmerman M. Epidemiology. In: Livesley WJ, editor. Handbook of personality disorders: Theory, research, and treatment.New York: Guilford Press; 2001. Morey LC, Warner MB, Boggs CD. Gender bias in the personality disorders criteria: An investigation of five bias indicators. Journal of Psychopathology and Behavioral Assessment. 2002;24:55–65. Many others since the early 2000's...)

Over the past two decades, too, more rigorous grouped statistical studies into diagnostic & treatment biases find, contrary to the popular press' coverage, "gender neutral" diagnostic & treatment criteria (Anderson KG, Sankis L, Widiger TA. Pathology versus statistical infrequency: Potential sources of gender bias in personality disorder criteria. The Journal of Nervous and Mental Disease. 2001;189:661–668 --one of the earliest, others since/references) with high reliability of diagnoses despite claims of gender bias (Huang CD, Church AT, Katigbak MS. Identifying cultural differences in items and traits: Differential item functioning in the NEO Personality Inventory. Journal of Cross-Cultural Psychology. 1997;28:192–218. & Morey, L. C., Warner, M. B., & Boggs, C. D. (2002). Gender bias in the personality disorders criteria: An investigation of five bias indicators. Journal of Psychopathology and Behavioral Assessment, 24(1), 55-65. Many others to date.)

There are also studies that find a significant suppression of evidence of biases against men in both research/studies and delivery of services, especially in mental health, admissions of pain notwithstanding. And international studies since 2010 that call more and more into question the way cultural ideologies and dialogues shape what's supposed to be objective research in the social sciences. This kind of systemic bias can gravely distort what the public perceives as true or fact. Unfortunately, a great deal of the "evidence" in the social sciences reflects what researchers feel and expect rather than what is independently true, assuming what they're talking about even actually exists.

Sorry for the long, boring comment. I just don't have faith in a lot of the publications in the social "sciences." It may be just my own experience, but how I've witnessed physicians and other mental health clinicians treating specifically men who present with cognitive dysfunction has been cringe-worthy. The irony is that so many psychological therapists and psychiatrists themselves, regardless of their gender, exhibit/reflect so much of the toxic masculinity the disciplines now diagnose many boys and men with. Ideally, gender/wealth... wouldn't matter in patients getting the most competent health care available.

Thanks for exchanging ideas...

More men kill themselves, women get abused 10-100 times more.
Maybe it's a weird yin-yang sex karma. Meaning men deserve to die and women should get abused less

Sorry, did I misread this: "...men deserve to die and women should get abused less"? I'd offer everyone should be abused less. The US CDC and independent, reproducible academic medical studies find, interestingly, the prevalence of female-initiated domestic abuse was significantly higher (Rhoades GK, Stanley SM, Kelmer G, Markman HJ. Physical aggression in unmarried relationships: the roles of commitment and constraints. J Fam Psychol. 2010;24(6):678–687). Unfortunately, both genders can be violent (http://time.com/2921491/hope-solo-women-violence/)

 

[K8!]

Men and women are not treated the same. I think women are seen as emotionally driven and men are pressure driven

 

[Bojangles]

I can only describe my own personal experience, but as a woman who attempted suicide at 18 I was not treated with much understanding by family or friends. People distanced themselves from me or shunned me completely, labeled me as "crazy", lectured me on my selfishness, told me I was manipulative and attention-seeking, and generally did not provide me with any sort of support. Several family members even made it known that they no longer wanted their children to be around me, because they viewed me as unstable and unsafe. Attempting suicide was the only "bad" or "crazy" thing I had done so far in life, but I was still treated like a dangerous criminal for it. I made my attempt several months after developing epilepsy and suffering head trauma that had me in the hospital for weeks, but still no one considered or cared that there might be a connection between that and developing extreme depression immediately after.

I know a lot of women probably are treated with more consideration and care when it comes to mental illness, but that certainly wasn't the case for me, and I'm sure there are many other women who are stigmatized or brushed aside in the aftermath of a suicide attempt or an expression of suicidal ideation.

 

[Boonks]

You are not alone, Bojangles...

That's all I'll say for now...