Discussion Is therapy a good thing?

[Centerism]

Hey all,
Today is a trying day for me. Twice a week I have to go to a therapist. It's ordered for me to go since I collect social security. If I didn't go I'd lose the roof over my head and I quite like the roof that I have.

Today I'm feeling wrecked since I know soon I'll have to look my therapist in the eye and lie. I don't like to lie. She will ask me if I'm suicidal and if I have a plan. I will of course say no because if I don't I will be thrown in a psych ward. And I hate those places. They keep trying to convince you not to end your life because you have so much to live for, you have family, or your worth so much more. All I want to say to them is, "don't you get it? To me this is mercy! This is a chance at happiness and peace I've never had!" But they won't let you out till you agree life is worth living...

I'm sure today will end up fine. I'll probably just talk about the passing of my lover. And we'll come to a general conclusion that I'm depressed due to my loss and it will soon pass...

But I don't get it. Do these people honestly care about whether or not we live or are they just there to collect a paycheck. I think a little of both. They have a very short time with each of their patients and they see so many. Do they actually think they can help each and every one of us or are they resigned to the idea that in the end some of us are lost hopes. Does it affect them to know some of their patients lose the battle with life? I hope both that it does and doesn't.

I know I'm hopeless, I'm dedicated to that fact. And I don't want people thinking they could have done something, that it's somehow their fault. Because that's the furthest from the truth. It's all on me, nobody did anything to me, nobody told me to ctb. I alone have found it to destructive to live. I alone have made this decision. I will act by myself...

Maybe you all have a similar situation. Thanks for reading

 

[Shamana]

I can be quite honest with my psychologist about my suicidal plans and thoughts, but maybe that was because I was already sectioned because of it and it did nothing good for me.

 

[Pistolero114]

If it's good therapy sure. But most therapy I've had seems to center on the willingness to live and not why you feel like CTB. They're afraid to take that issue about CTB head-on, almost as if they speak with you about it they'll catch something I guess. Good luck.

 

[Centerism]

I can be quite honest with my psychologist about my suicidal plans and thoughts, but maybe that was because I was already sectioned because of it and it did nothing good for me.

I envy you. Every time I've told my therapist I'm suicidal she calmly asks what are my plans. I tell her of course. But I soon regret it since I get picked up by the police the next day and they take me to the hospital. Where I stay for weeks...

I have friends I can be honest with and they support my final wishes. That to me means the world. I just wish I could either be honest with my psychologist or that I didn't have one...

 

[Mr2005]

You sound smarter than they are. Enough to know yourself better than anyone. It depends what you're doing it for. Since your expectations are already low it probably can't do much harm.

 

[eve2004]

Its a crapshoot. IF you are the kind to benefit (not everyone's personality is geared for that) AND IF you find one you have chemistry with THEN maybe you have a chance or at least they may help you tolerate life until you're ready to go.

I think to be a therapist you have to have eternal optimism built in your DNA... which is good, we need people like that on the planet.

 

[Frank]

I've done a lot of therapy and it hasn't really done anything for me. I just don't get the point but I have a hard time talking about my feelings/problems or asking for help.

 

[CURSED again]

Therapy for me has been totally counterproductive - has made me want to ctb more. U cannot trust 99.9% of any of them (psychs) so its best not to trust at all - but i'm not surprised what they did to you - its mostly just a job - but if i couldn't even get my significant other to "understand" so how can a basic stranger - i was involuntarily put in but not by a psych but by my significant other & i had begged that person and my couple of other people close to me to understand and NO - - - everybody just wants me to live in constant physical and mental torment - NO damn empathy at my end - i'm glad you have some friends that support YOUR wishes and not their own - it would mean the world to me if i had that

 

[Centerism]

Therapy for me has been totally counterproductive - has made me want to ctb more. U cannot trust 99.9% of any of them (psychs) so its best not to trust at all - but i'm not surprised what they did to you - its mostly just a job - but if i couldn't even get my significant other to "understand" so how can a basic stranger - i was involuntarily put in but not by a psych but by my significant other & i had begged that person and my couple of other people close to me to understand and NO - - - everybody just wants me to live in constant physical and mental torment - NO damn empathy at my end - i'm glad you have some friends that support YOUR wishes and not their own - it would mean the world to me if i had that

I could be a good friend who supports your wishes and understands your plight. I met my friends on similar sites on the dark web. Just a thought

But I understand you. It's hard when everybody around you thinks your being selfish. They don't get the point that we suffe so bad that suicide to us is mercy...

Once the world understand what we're doing isn't bad but thoughtful we will have happiness in one part of our lives. Till then we'll continue to be the taboo.

 

[Jean Améry]

Unless you agree with their ideology there will be negative consequences. How can that ever be called a good thing and a productive activity? Lets face it: they are this society's inquisition. If they hear things they don't like (heresy) they've got society's blessing to legally take your rights and freedom away. That means punishment for voicing an opinion that is not socially accepted (thought crime). Freedom does not exist for the so called 'mentally ill'.

Obviously you should go and play the part since a) you need a roof over your head and b) you don't want it to be the roof of a closed ward which is completely understandable.

As to lying: lying to the enemy is not generally considered a bad or immoral thing. On the contrary: it's clever and a good strategy. Deception is the primary art of war (Sun Tzu). What would you call people that want to lock you up for having committed absolutely no crime whatsoever?

You could also remain vague: not mentioning certain things is not really lying, is it?

 

[Centerism]

I agree, I have to comply because I want too be able to be me without consequence. And I find it true that lying to your enemy isn't exactly an immoral thing. And simple deception or remaining vague would be the best way to go.

It's just sad that even though we might want the kind words of a seemingly kind stranger we cannot divulge our true intention because we "fear" anyone's true opinion or actions that might be against us. We already feel enough pain... why should we be shamed for our beliefs?
Ok. I am leaving for the psychologist appointment. Wish me good luck....

 

[Jean Améry]

It's just sad that even though we might want the kind words of a seemingly kind stranger we cannot divulge our true intention because we "fear" anyone's true opinion or actions that might be against us. We already feel enough pain... why should we be shamed for our beliefs?

Agreed. Life in general is sad: I find psychiatry to be downright laughable and ridiculous. Based on both my personal experience and what I've read. They are emperors with no clothes.

As to kind words: that's what you'll find here if you need it (at least that's been my experience), we're all strangers to each-other and we don't have anything to gain by being nice to one-another so any expression of care and positivity is bound to be genuine. Unlike the so called professionals who are getting paid to 'be nice' and gain people's trust (only to betray it later if that person wants to die). Some of them might actually mean it and are naturally caring but for most it's just a job.

What you don't expect from a cashier at the local supermarket you shouldn't expect from 'mental health professionals'. They are not superior humans and most are certainly not more intelligent (classical intelligence and the emotional variant) than the average Joe or Jane.

 

[pole]

Hey all,
Today is a trying day for me. Twice a week I have to go to a therapist. It's ordered for me to go since I collect social security. If I didn't go I'd lose the roof over my head and I quite like the roof that I have.

Today I'm feeling wrecked since I know soon I'll have to look my therapist in the eye and lie. I don't like to lie. She will ask me if I'm suicidal and if I have a plan. I will of course say no because if I don't I will be thrown in a psych ward. And I hate those places. They keep trying to convince you not to end your life because you have so much to live for, you have family, or your worth so much more. All I want to say to them is, "don't you get it? To me this is mercy! This is a chance at happiness and peace I've never had!" But they won't let you out till you agree life is worth living...

I'm sure today will end up fine. I'll probably just talk about the passing of my lover. And we'll come to a general conclusion that I'm depressed due to my loss and it will soon pass...

But I don't get it. Do these people honestly care about whether or not we live or are they just there to collect a paycheck. I think a little of both. They have a very short time with each of their patients and they see so many. Do they actually think they can help each and every one of us or are they resigned to the idea that in the end some of us are lost hopes. Does it affect them to know some of their patients lose the battle with life? I hope both that it does and doesn't.

I know I'm hopeless, I'm dedicated to that fact. And I don't want people thinking they could have done something, that it's somehow their fault. Because that's the furthest from the truth. It's all on me, nobody did anything to me, nobody told me to ctb. I alone have found it to destructive to live. I alone have made this decision. I will act by myself...

Maybe you all have a similar situation. Thanks for reading

i honestly think its a hit or miss. you just have to keep trying, etc. some people have bad experiences that involve an absolute shitty therapist who fails to understand them. some have good experiences that involve a really good therapist who genuinly cares and understands them.

for me, it'll never work. its not about wanting someone to talk to. I just dont like talking to people about how i feel, nor do i feel comfortable about it.

 

[EmptySteph62]

Its different for everyone, some people really benefit from therapy and others find it makes them feel worse. I think it depends on how comfortable you are with your therapist and how much you can safely tell them. I thinknits worth a try for anyone whose unsure, but its definitely not for everyone.

 

[Jean Améry]

I think it depends on how comfortable you are with your therapist and how much you can safely tell them.

That's exactly what research on the efficacy of psychotherapy has shown: the so called 'therapeutic alliance' (bond between therapist and client) is far more important than anything else including the so called training they received or qualifications they may have. Basically this means that there is no real science behind it and it's all about human contact. Paid empathy and sympathy.

In other words: it's much easier to talk to someone you actually like and trust. Who would have guessed?

 

[EmptySteph62]

That's exactly what research on the efficacy of psychotherapy has shown: the so called 'therapeutic alliance' (bond between therapist and client) is far more important than anything else including the so called training they received or qualifications they may have. Basically this means that there is no real science behind it and it's all about human contact. Paid empathy and sympathy.

In other words: it's much easier to talk to someone you actually like and trust. Who would have guessed?

Honestly yeah, I've had much better results talking about it with a friend, and I feel much safer too. I guess therapy is good if your looking for medication or any "professional" methods or techniques to deal with things. Still, you can find most of their techniques through a simple Google search anyway.

 

[oopswronglife]

Therapists are like any other person. Some are good...most are mediocre...some are really bad. If you have one that makes you feel worse...or their method does...then its senseless to keep going. Not all methods are valid...even the valid ones don't work the same for everyone. Therapy can be helpful if you acknowledge its limits and take the good from it.

They will ALWAYS put their licensure and liability before you so expecting anything less is folly. Nobody is going to risk someone suiciding and then being blamed and losing their own life and safety. That's why as unfair as it is I would never tell anyone I had an active plan. I'd only discuss it abstractly or as ideations.

 

[eve2004]

I think it also depends on how experienced and comfortable with suicidal people. Ideally you would tell your therapist « no, I am not in imminent danger nor have a plan » but they would know what you mean and talk it out with you with the understood premise that you do. Then it would be useful. But your therapist has to know you well, you have to let them get to know you, and there has to be an unspoken understanding that when you need help they will know. Sadly its probably the only way it can work, while still adhering to the laws and without getting commited. I mean when you're with someone and feeling like you want to CTB immediately after, it helps if they can work honestly with you rather than play the whole involuntary charade and end up having to tell your story to a stranger. Totally unproductive.

I wish I could do that with mine. It has to be a subtle and unspoken understanding and if you can get to that point with yours, it may be worth continuing and maybe even helpful. At least for those impulsive moments. The long term plans I definitely will keep to myself. I just don't want to act impulsively and desperately and botch it up.

 

[Pistolero114]

Unless you agree with their ideology there will be negative consequences. How can that ever be called a good thing and a productive activity? Lets face it: they are this society's inquisition. If they hear things they don't like (heresy) they've got society's blessing to legally take your rights and freedom away. That means punishment for voicing an opinion that is not socially accepted (thought crime). Freedom does not exist for the so called 'mentally ill'.

Obviously you should go and play the part since a) you need a roof over your head and b) you don't want it to be the roof of a closed ward which is completely understandable.

As to lying: lying to the enemy is not generally considered a bad or immoral thing. On the contrary: it's clever and a good strategy. Deception is the primary art of war (Sun Tzu). What would you call people that want to lock you up for having committed absolutely no crime whatsoever?

You could also remain vague: not mentioning certain things is not really lying, is it?



Sun Tzu also cautioned to leave your enemy an avenue of escape. By this I believe he meant that should your adversary take the "conflict" to a direction less hostile one should follow suit. We might know this better in therapy as "changing the subject". Some therapists mean well and have an ideological view of saving the world. Usually happens in the first couple of years in the field. For a select few this wears off and another attitude takes its place. However; if you haven't encountered one of the chosen few your life in therapy will be hell. Thanks for following me this far. Good luck whatever your choice is.

 

[Centerism]

I think it also depends on how experienced and comfortable with suicidal people. Ideally you would tell your therapist « no, I am not in imminent danger nor have a plan » but they would know what you mean and talk it out with you with the understood premise that you do. Then it would be useful. But your therapist has to know you well, you have to let them get to know you, and there has to be an unspoken understanding that when you need help they will know. Sadly its probably the only way it can work, while still adhering to the laws and without getting commited. I mean when you're with someone and feeling like you want to CTB immediately after, it helps if they can work honestly with you rather than play the whole involuntary charade and end up having to tell your story to a stranger. Totally unproductive.

I wish I could do that with mine. It has to be a subtle and unspoken understanding and if you can get to that point with yours, it may be worth continuing and maybe even helpful. At least for those impulsive moments. The long term plans I definitely will keep to myself. I just don't want to act impulsively and desperately and botch it up.

Thank you for your insight. I agree. There can be a unspoken agreement that you can be slightly open with him/her. I know mine has the idea that im suicidal and that I have a plan but even though she has committed me before I think she has the notion that there's no way of changing my mind. I have told her in the past that I don't glorify suicide but I feel as if in some cases it's mercy, beautiful even.

I just got done with my appointment and she made me feel better about my boyfriend passing, but she also harped on me about not letting this crisis be the cause of my suicide. Even though I wanted to say "listen, i've had these plans before anything happened to him. We Even had plans to go together before his unfortunate death. And no matter what happens I will meet my plan." I love her for what she says about me but I also resent her for thinking she is changing me.

Therapists, psychologists and the like can be a good thing for those that have serious psychological problems and can honestly respond to the therapy. Alas though, there are those of us that have something hardwired into is that can't be reversed with conventional methods. Maybe one day some of us will find what we're looking for but for the majority our only hope is a beautiful death.

I don't condone suicide in any way. As a matter of fact I joined this site to see if I can use my kind words to help someone. Even though I know myself that I can't be helped. I hope everyone here finds love, whether it be physical, emotional, or suicidal. I love all of you and I support everyone.

 

[eve2004]

Thank you for your insight. I agree. There can be a unspoken agreement that you can be slightly open with him/her. I know mine has the idea that im suicidal and that I have a plan but even though she has committed me before I think she has the notion that there's no way of changing my mind. I have told her in the past that I don't glorify suicide but I feel as if in some cases it's mercy, beautiful even.

I just got done with my appointment and she made me feel better about my boyfriend passing, but she also harped on me about not letting this crisis be the cause of my suicide. Even though I wanted to say "listen, i've had these plans before anything happened to him. We Even had plans to go together before his unfortunate death. And no matter what happens I will meet my plan." I love her for what she says about me but I also resent her for thinking she is changing me.

Therapists, psychologists and the like can be a good thing for those that have serious psychological problems and can honestly respond to the therapy. Alas though, there are those of us that have something hardwired into is that can't be reversed with conventional methods. Maybe one day some of us will find what we're looking for but for the majority our only hope is a beautiful death.

I don't condone suicide in any way. As a matter of fact I joined this site to see if I can use my kind words to help someone. Even though I know myself that I can't be helped. I hope everyone here finds love, whether it be physical, emotional, or suicidal. I love all of you and I support everyone.

I'm glad you can talk to yours semi-honestly. It's such a catch-22 and a difficult situation for the therapist. One one hand they went into the profession wanting to help others, on the other hand sometimes the ways to help others is not the obvious ways and it may take years to figure it out. I'm sure your therapists « Thinks » that you think you can't change her mind and maybe even she herself thinks she can't, but expressing her wish for you to live can be interpreted as not understanding or respecting your values but at the same time, accepting that you want to and will CTB could also make the client feel like the therapist doesn't care. So it's a fine line to be always treading between being empathetic to you and your feelings, but also showing that she's not given up on the fact that life is unpredictable and people can change their minds and their lives...

I feel like mine is caught in this conundrum and feeling helpless. Sometimes you go to a session and you need the empathetic understanding therapist and sometimes you go in and you want their hope for you to live to be contagious and hold on to some of it. In their position the first few minutes must be so hard because they are always trying to gauge your state of mind and what it is you may need at that moment. That's what I feel from mine. I also I can read him and his emotions more than he thinks I can. When you're not much of a talker, often you pay more attention to body language (theirs and yours) and your intuition is a bit sharper in those moments.

I openly admit that I have a double standard. In my head, I believe that people can heal with the right people and « tools » and I have hope for everyone's situation to improve to a level where they don't or won't want to CTB. Except for myself, I don't see myself changing and I can't see myself going on the rest of my years like this. I mean heck, I can't even see more than half a day in advance. I'm relieved when I make it to 4pm and I'm not already in bed ready to pop some sleeping pills... I think everyone here might have a little bit of that double standard too. Heck who knows maybe even my therapist does!!!

This discussion is helping me be more aware of what is happening during my therapy sessions. Thanks for sharing and opening the discussion...

 

[GreyMonkey]

I'm not a huge fan of talk therapy for those struggling with big issues.

Chronic suicidal ideation is a symptom of big issues. Most likely complex trauma, abuse, neglect in formative years.

I don't think taking about it cognitively (top down) is enough to really work through this stuff.

I think usually there is so much shame and self hate inside that causes unbearable and unending emotional pain that suicide becomes a way to escape the pain. It's the last resort of coping mechanisms, when no other strategies will work and the pain is just too much to face.

My experience is that a therapist needs significant understanding of this inner landscape of emotional pain, and an ability to work bottom up (at the level of the body, accessing what is often called the inner child... which in a way is the subconscious memories stored throughout the nervous system... including the belly, heart area, and joints) to really start getting somewhere.

At least this is my hypothesis based on my own experience. I have self hate and plenty of shame. And whenever my pain gets so big I think I can't handle it and the thought of being in this level of pain for the rest of my life becomes unbearable I reach for suicide as the option. Life isn't going to get any better. I want out.

I am working with a somatic therapist though. And it is making changes in me.

Therapies to explore are:
- somatic experiencing
- NARM (neuro-affective relational model)
- EMDR (eye movement desenstisation and reprogramming)
- brainspotting

And it also needs to be a good therapist that matches with you. Which are really hard to find. A therapist who reports you to be sectioned for describing suicidal thoughts isn't one you are going to be able to properly trust to work through shame unfortunately. They are doing their job by reporting, and while it might keep you alive short term, it really does interfere with long term healing.

I openly admit that I have a double standard. In my head, I believe that people can heal with the right people and « tools » and I have hope for everyone's situation to improve to a level where they don't or won't want to CTB. Except for myself, I don't see myself changing and I can't see myself going on the rest of my years like this. I mean heck, I can't even see more than half a day in advance.

I understand this. I feel the same. It works for everyone but me. I can't change, I'm hopeless, a lost cause. But other people totally can.

This is the trauma speaking. Hopelessness and helplessness.

It's some deep wounding that causes this.

 

[Centerism]

I'm not a huge fan of talk therapy for those struggling with big issues.

Chronic suicidal ideation is a symptom of big issues. Most likely complex trauma, abuse, neglect in formative years.

I don't think taking about it cognitively (top down) is enough to really work through this stuff.

I think usually there is so much shame and self hate inside that causes unbearable and unending emotional pain that suicide becomes a way to escape the pain. It's the last resort of coping mechanisms, when no other strategies will work and the pain is just too much to face.

My experience is that a therapist needs significant understanding of this inner landscape of emotional pain, and an ability to work bottom up (at the level of the body, accessing what is often called the inner child... which in a way is the subconscious memories stored throughout the nervous system... including the belly, heart area, and joints) to really start getting somewhere.

At least this is my hypothesis based on my own experience. I have self hate and plenty of shame. And whenever my pain gets so big I think I can't handle it and the thought of being in this level of pain for the rest of my life becomes unbearable I reach for suicide as the option. Life isn't going to get any better. I want out.

I am working with a somatic therapist though. And it is making changes in me.

Therapies to explore are:
- somatic experiencing
- NARM (neuro-affective relational model)
- EMDR (eye movement desenstisation and reprogramming)
- brainspotting

And it also needs to be a good therapist that matches with you. Which are really hard to find. A therapist who reports you to be sectioned for describing suicidal thoughts isn't one you are going to be able to properly trust to work through shame unfortunately. They are doing their job by reporting, and while it might keep you alive short term, it really does interfere with long term healing.


I understand this. I feel the same. It works for everyone but me. I can't change, I'm hopeless, a lost cause. But other people totally can.

This is the trauma speaking. Hopelessness and helplessness.

It's some deep wounding that causes this.

I like to think "Hey, what stops us from changing?"... But truthfully what stops me from changing is the inability to bend my thought perception. I wish there was a kink in the chain that holds me down, but I have yet to find one.

Therapy has been good to me in the past when I was a teenager and moldable. I still had trauma from sexual and physical abuse, but I had the idea that life could get better if I got away from the abuser... it got worse. I was outed and shamed, forgotten and beaten... From then on the hate and disappointment for me and who I am had continued. I was hopeless. And still am. My fear, pain, anxiety and depression are unbearable. The only way out in this case is to go for the gold.

I had a good therapist before I moved. He was thoughtful, insightful, caring and gentle. My new therapist seems to think I'm the scum of the earth. And I might be... I can't switch therapist's caused the one I have is appointed to me through social security and I have to see her if I want to hey my social security check each month. So I'm stuck. And afraid.

I appreciate everyone here and I feel as if your family. I love each and every one of you. And if nobody else does, I care for you and I understand you.