Do you think that suicide is selfish or not? I have never seen suicide as a selfish act but i kinda understand why many people think it is and i was wondering what do you think.
Lethe
Fey
- Sep 19, 2019
- 670
You're giving more of a chance to the other billions of people on the planet, reducing CO2 emissions etc.
It depends on your perspective I can understand why some say it is selfish or cowardly but it is also due their psychological conditioning and how they were raised and what they've been told at a young age and how they grow up I find suicide not really a good thing but an out.
kerolox
Member
- Jul 5, 2019
- 54
For me it would be as I'll be the only one benefiting from it but I think it's more selfish for someone else to expect me to live like this indefinitely to spare them having to deal with a suicide.
living because of someone else is also selfishness
No.. not if you think about all the people in your life and know they would live better lives without you
Crushed_Innocence
Hungry Ghost
- Oct 16, 2019
- 423
Depends on the perspective of who is left behind---------
I think it is but I dont give a shit anymore-
I think it is but I dont give a shit anymore-
Squiddy
Here Lies My Hopes And Dreams
- Sep 4, 2019
- 5,903
I think it's selfish on both parts. Selfish that you're hurting the people you leave behind, but watching us suffer because you want us to stay alive
chrijo
done
- Feb 8, 2019
- 329
Of course, it's selfish. If you do something without consideration for others and only for yourself, it is selfish.
...but the important point is - it's ok to be selfish. Your life, your body, your pain.
...but the important point is - it's ok to be selfish. Your life, your body, your pain.
Sweet emotion
Enlightened
- Sep 14, 2019
- 1,325
No, absolutely not. I've never thought suicide as being selfish. When someone is in that much agony whether it be physical, emotional, mental, then they deserve to be set free from it. No one else is dealing with the pain many of us are dealing with. I deal with awful physical pain and I've become very depressed and ridden with anxiety because of it. There's no cure for what I have. So I'm not going to keep on existing just so ithers can walk by my bed and look at me. I think it's selfish of other people to make someone who is in pain feel like suicide is selfish and cowardly. I'll tell you one thing. If suicide was so easy I would have done it a long time ago. It's terrifying and I have so much respect for those who have personally taken it upon themselves to end their pain. Everyone is so quick to judge when it comes to suicide but unless you're in someone else's position you have no right to judge
It really depends what situation the person is in. If you have many people who love and care for you (which I sadly do), then yes, it would be a little selfish to take your pain away and throw it onto those around you. I'm unable to ctb because my mom fights so hard for me, as well as my friends, so I know I couldn't do that to them. However, if you don't have people who care about you or know you that well (I don't mean feeling like you don't have anyone. I mean if you objectively don't have many people, or anyone at all, who cares) then no, it wouldn't be selfish of you to want to release yourself from that pain. Maybe it's just my perspective, since my worst fear is hurting loved ones, and I know that if I ctb, it will hurt them so much. In fact, if I ctb, my mother would most likely follow, and I would hate for that to happen.
Dreamwithinadream
Member
- Sep 21, 2019
- 75
No it's not selfish. If you're suffering it's selfish of other people to expect you to stay alive.
Is it selfish to leave a really unpleasant place? Well, a bit maybe, but thats the normal level of selfishness.
There's no selfishness in suicide. It's your life. You decide.
Abused and Suicidal
Member
- Mar 23, 2020
- 14
No, suicide isn't selfish, you didn't choose to be born, so at least you should be able to choose when you die.
Also, why shouldn't people be selfish once in a while? If we went through so much grief that we are at the point of ctb, and no one bothered to help us because they themselves were selfish and refused to acknowledge our pain, then isn't it only right that we get to do one "selfish" act to try to end our suffering?
Also, why shouldn't people be selfish once in a while? If we went through so much grief that we are at the point of ctb, and no one bothered to help us because they themselves were selfish and refused to acknowledge our pain, then isn't it only right that we get to do one "selfish" act to try to end our suffering?
WinterFaust
Shimmer
- Apr 13, 2020
- 412
I feel like when people say that suicide is selfish, in some regard they're saying the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one. Of course everyone here knows that suicide is complicated, even in instances that appear purely impulsive. But to people who aren't suicidal or many of those who are left behind, it's simply unfathomable.
There will always be some collateral, whether it be the person who finds the deceased or friends and family. It's unfortunate for anyone to have to face that level of grief and confusion or potential trauma. Many of us have already grieved and have been traumatized plenty and would hate for anyone else do experience undeserved suffering. For some, it's the only reason we hold on. Yet, what of the needs of the one? So many people wax poetic about how each and every individual has value and I am by no means disputing that. But is our suffering then meaningless? Does that not have any value? Grief, of course, is devastating. Many of the bereaved wonder if they could have done more. But where was that sentiment when a traumatized individual is told they are the maker of their own destiny? Or when someone cannot work and is suddenly seen as less than because we alone are responsible for ourselves?
It's true that no one is obligated or responsible for another adult. Completely ghosting and cutting off all contact on someone who is extremely fragile mentally in the name of self-care? It is valid and we all must do what we must to take care of ourselves. But suddenly people are shocked when that fragile individual cannot cope.
Some of us only have one strap or none at all to carry the burden of life where there should be two. Assistance is needed but seldom offered but we must hobble along broken for the needs of others. The needs of the many is a heavy burden to bear and heavier still if one can't even bear their own burden. To add guilt and shame to an already heavy load that the person can't even carry is cruel.
The real truth is, when some people look back and say that they could have more, some of them really could have.
This was a rant and I apologize. I felt jaded today lol
There will always be some collateral, whether it be the person who finds the deceased or friends and family. It's unfortunate for anyone to have to face that level of grief and confusion or potential trauma. Many of us have already grieved and have been traumatized plenty and would hate for anyone else do experience undeserved suffering. For some, it's the only reason we hold on. Yet, what of the needs of the one? So many people wax poetic about how each and every individual has value and I am by no means disputing that. But is our suffering then meaningless? Does that not have any value? Grief, of course, is devastating. Many of the bereaved wonder if they could have done more. But where was that sentiment when a traumatized individual is told they are the maker of their own destiny? Or when someone cannot work and is suddenly seen as less than because we alone are responsible for ourselves?
It's true that no one is obligated or responsible for another adult. Completely ghosting and cutting off all contact on someone who is extremely fragile mentally in the name of self-care? It is valid and we all must do what we must to take care of ourselves. But suddenly people are shocked when that fragile individual cannot cope.
Some of us only have one strap or none at all to carry the burden of life where there should be two. Assistance is needed but seldom offered but we must hobble along broken for the needs of others. The needs of the many is a heavy burden to bear and heavier still if one can't even bear their own burden. To add guilt and shame to an already heavy load that the person can't even carry is cruel.
The real truth is, when some people look back and say that they could have more, some of them really could have.
This was a rant and I apologize. I felt jaded today lol
muffin222
Enlightened
- Mar 31, 2020
- 1,188
No. We don't choose to be born, so why is it selfish to opt out of life?
BitterlyAlive
---
- Apr 8, 2020
- 1,635
I suppose it depends on the reason(s) behind it. I want to die by suicide because I'm tired of the pain, I don't see myself recovering and living a meaningful life (can't even imagine myself 6 months into the future), and I'm just a burden and a pest... I feel horrible that others are so unfortunate that they have to share a life with me. It's better if I just died.
So my reasoning is mostly selfish. But I don't believe every single suicide is selfish. And honestly, what's wrong with being a bit selfish? Not aiming that question towards anyone specifically, just asking in a general way.
So my reasoning is mostly selfish. But I don't believe every single suicide is selfish. And honestly, what's wrong with being a bit selfish? Not aiming that question towards anyone specifically, just asking in a general way.
I think suicide is "selfish" if you have kids who depend on you.
That being said, I find the word "selfish" inappropiate when talking about suicide.
If someone ends their life, it most likely means they were at the end of their rope - who am I to judge their pain and call them selfish?
That being said, I find the word "selfish" inappropiate when talking about suicide.
If someone ends their life, it most likely means they were at the end of their rope - who am I to judge their pain and call them selfish?
TheSoulless
I'd like to fly but my wings have been so denied
- Jan 7, 2020
- 1,055
In my case that's the biggest thing that is holding me back. I feel like I am basically just forcing all the pain I'm going through to my family.
Timetodie90
Spiritual but suicidal.
- Mar 8, 2020
- 103
nigelhernandez
Experienced
- Apr 14, 2020
- 270
It's actually insane that society has gone through this much brainwashing to convince the majority that terminating their own existence is selfish.
I personally believe the grief that suicide is the worst death is in a way socially constructed because if it were natural then the Greek's and Romans would never have legislated and allowed suicide. It seems that suicide became looked down upon after the introduction of Christianity into Europe
I personally believe the grief that suicide is the worst death is in a way socially constructed because if it were natural then the Greek's and Romans would never have legislated and allowed suicide. It seems that suicide became looked down upon after the introduction of Christianity into Europe
those people telling you that are SELFISH because they cant seem to let go themselves. So now you have to suffer for the rest of your life just because of their feelings? Really watching them laugh, and actually enjoy life while your stuck living in hell. Im sorry my aunt says the same thing so I know what you're talking about. But yeah you're not selfish at all.
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a.n.kirillov
velle non discitur
- Nov 17, 2019
- 1,831
I would say it is selfish not to accept that an autonomous being has the right to do whatever he/she wants with their life.
"Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live. And unselfishness is letting other people's lives alone, not interfering with them.
Selfishness always aims at creating around it an absolute uniformity of type. Unselfishness recognizes infinite variety of type as a delightful thing, accepts it, acquiesces in it, enjoys it. It is not selfish to think for oneself.
A man who does not think for himself does not think at all. It is grossly selfish to require of one's neighbor that he should think in the same way, and hold the same opinions. Why should he? If he can think, he will probably think differently. If he cannot think, it is monstrous to require thought of any kind from him.
A red rose is not selfish because it wants to be a red rose. It would be horribly selfish if it wanted all the other flowers in the garden to be both red and roses."
The one and only Oscar Wilde
a.n.kirillov
velle non discitur
- Nov 17, 2019
- 1,831
@Epsilon0
Well if we go by that definition, then suicide is not selfish. I was going by the translation "egoistisch", egoistical, acting (only) out of self interest, but I realize selfishness is a loaded term and usually has a negative connotation.
I subscribe to psychological egoism and think everything you ever do is motivated out of self interest. Now, even of you don't think that this is true, and I admit there are some such suicides—kamikazi pilots, politically motivated suicides, throwing yourself on a grenade—that could be described as altruistic; most suicides are motivated by personal suffering and the desire to end it, or a feeling of being a burden to others. Now if you want to portray the latter as altruistic behaviour, fine—I still think that the feeling of being a burden to others stems from feelings of guilt, and suicide is an attempt to get rid of those feelings and is thus an act out of self-interest.
It is grossly selfish to require of one's neighbor that he should think in the same way, and hold the same opinions
Well, when it comes to human behaviour and motivation, I am by default skeptical. Why philosophize at all then? Why debate over the truth? if not to make your neighbour think the way you do? Since you started quoting people, I will quote Thomas Szasz:
»In the animal kingdom, the rule is, eat or be eaten; in the human kingdom, define or be defined.«
Well if we go by that definition, then suicide is not selfish. I was going by the translation "egoistisch", egoistical, acting (only) out of self interest, but I realize selfishness is a loaded term and usually has a negative connotation.
I subscribe to psychological egoism and think everything you ever do is motivated out of self interest. Now, even of you don't think that this is true, and I admit there are some such suicides—kamikazi pilots, politically motivated suicides, throwing yourself on a grenade—that could be described as altruistic; most suicides are motivated by personal suffering and the desire to end it, or a feeling of being a burden to others. Now if you want to portray the latter as altruistic behaviour, fine—I still think that the feeling of being a burden to others stems from feelings of guilt, and suicide is an attempt to get rid of those feelings and is thus an act out of self-interest.
It is grossly selfish to require of one's neighbor that he should think in the same way, and hold the same opinions
Well, when it comes to human behaviour and motivation, I am by default skeptical. Why philosophize at all then? Why debate over the truth? if not to make your neighbour think the way you do? Since you started quoting people, I will quote Thomas Szasz:
»In the animal kingdom, the rule is, eat or be eaten; in the human kingdom, define or be defined.«
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Egoism and selfishness carry a negative connotation and imply moral judgement. I respectfully disagree with the idea that suicide is either of these things.
Suicide is a stance about one's existence and one's existence is essentially and exclusively a personal matter. Existence is strictly a question between the individual and the self. As such, it can never be about someone else, as one's existence doesn't comprise other people.
For some individuals, suicide is the answer to what Camus calls the most important philosophical question: Is life worth living?
Noone but the individual herself can - and has the right to - answer that question for herself. The real selfishness (and absurdity) is when someone attempts to decide another person's relation to existence.
In sum, this is my answer to your post:
It is selfish to dictate the terms and conditions of another person's life.
It is selfish to deny a person the right to decide his/her own existence, and whether life is worth living.
It is selfish to define for another person the limits of how much torture she should endure.
Yes, suicide is devastating for the ones left behind, but it is not a selfish act.
Somberly_
Member
- Apr 21, 2020
- 22
I think for me, a lot of it is based on intent and self-awareness. Before I read anyone's opinions on this thread, my initial stance was a very firm "it is selfish, but that's ok". Rather than any kind of moral argument or philosophy of society and a person's own autonomy, I got to that stance just based on simple personal perspective.
A few months ago I would've said "it is selfish, you (specifically to me) are stronger than it, focus on your goals". Since then... Not feeling quite as strong now haha. To even join this forum, I had to take a certain mental step that required me to reevaluate suicide:
Was I ok with all the pain my death would inflict? Yeah, I think I am.
Because to really entertain the thought of suicide as an option, I had to come to terms with the outcome of drifting down that path a little bit more every time it gets dark. Maybe I will never CTB? But I know for a fact that compared to a few months ago, I have a wealth more of information on how to go about it. And theres no going back, I can't forget the things I've learned or revert back to a more ignorant (I say ignorant because I actively avoided this information before) state of mind. Joining this site was a very selfish decision in my own eyes, simply because I know where it could lead.
So while I see all these insightful and persuasive points of view about respect for a person's own decision and how selfishness itself is a very vague and ephemeral thing in itself, it can't fully shift me from my stance because of my own awareness. Am I suddenly less selfish by reading all of the strong arguments for personal choice and not suffering for others? Not in my mind. My decision is grandfathered in. For me it will always be inherently selfish because I chose the path to get me here in an entirely selfish frame of mind. Even if I had the personal right all along and never shouldve even looked at it from an angle of suicide being selfish to begin with, that is what it was to me. Me, or them? I chose me.
And dont get me wrong, I actually agree with most of you that suicide isn't selfish. If any of you were to carry through with it, I would support you fully. You did not do it to cause pain, you did it to stop pain. You very well have the right to make any decision about your existance in this world without regretting how you affect others.
And even moreso, why should I have any opinion of the selfishness of another if I have no idea exactly what their perspective was. If they view their own suicide as selfish or not selfish, I should give them the personal respect of them thinking for themselves and accept it. Their own viewpoint is a right they deserve as well. After all, they've been in their shoes for decades. I've only been in their shoes for as long as I have known their limited feelings they could convey in text.
So I guess, at the end of all of this, my stance is:
My suicide, if it occurs, will be a very selfish action. That is ok, I'm ok with that.
All others suicides are not inherently selfish and I would try to treat their death with the same viewpoint that they viewed it themselves. With maybe a bit of leeway one way or the other, because there is inherently mental instability in suicide.
A few months ago I would've said "it is selfish, you (specifically to me) are stronger than it, focus on your goals". Since then... Not feeling quite as strong now haha. To even join this forum, I had to take a certain mental step that required me to reevaluate suicide:
Was I ok with all the pain my death would inflict? Yeah, I think I am.
Because to really entertain the thought of suicide as an option, I had to come to terms with the outcome of drifting down that path a little bit more every time it gets dark. Maybe I will never CTB? But I know for a fact that compared to a few months ago, I have a wealth more of information on how to go about it. And theres no going back, I can't forget the things I've learned or revert back to a more ignorant (I say ignorant because I actively avoided this information before) state of mind. Joining this site was a very selfish decision in my own eyes, simply because I know where it could lead.
So while I see all these insightful and persuasive points of view about respect for a person's own decision and how selfishness itself is a very vague and ephemeral thing in itself, it can't fully shift me from my stance because of my own awareness. Am I suddenly less selfish by reading all of the strong arguments for personal choice and not suffering for others? Not in my mind. My decision is grandfathered in. For me it will always be inherently selfish because I chose the path to get me here in an entirely selfish frame of mind. Even if I had the personal right all along and never shouldve even looked at it from an angle of suicide being selfish to begin with, that is what it was to me. Me, or them? I chose me.
And dont get me wrong, I actually agree with most of you that suicide isn't selfish. If any of you were to carry through with it, I would support you fully. You did not do it to cause pain, you did it to stop pain. You very well have the right to make any decision about your existance in this world without regretting how you affect others.
And even moreso, why should I have any opinion of the selfishness of another if I have no idea exactly what their perspective was. If they view their own suicide as selfish or not selfish, I should give them the personal respect of them thinking for themselves and accept it. Their own viewpoint is a right they deserve as well. After all, they've been in their shoes for decades. I've only been in their shoes for as long as I have known their limited feelings they could convey in text.
So I guess, at the end of all of this, my stance is:
My suicide, if it occurs, will be a very selfish action. That is ok, I'm ok with that.
All others suicides are not inherently selfish and I would try to treat their death with the same viewpoint that they viewed it themselves. With maybe a bit of leeway one way or the other, because there is inherently mental instability in suicide.
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