is SaSu an echo chamber?

[mousepadkeyboard223]

saw a post by a user named pipapo in off topic about a paper written on SaSu. I looked through the paper for a bit and found an interesting part claiming sasu to be an echo chamber, take a look:

"However, we took into consideration the formal definition of echo chambers described in [21], which states that to define an echo chamber there must be the coexistence of two factors: opinion polarization concerning a topic and homophilic interactions between users. Both are present in Sanctioned Suicide. We have opinion polarization as the site discusses the topic of suicide from a pro-choice point of view. Homophily of interactions is given by the fact that Guests cannot comment as one must be registered, and trying to dissuade someone while registered will occur in a ban. While not explicitly condemning different ideas and stating that they do not promote suicide, Sanctioned Suicide has a rule on not imposing personal views, which makes it so that one cannot explicitly discourage a suicidal individual from committing the act."

they also gave other examples of echo chambers being the incel, pro ana, and pro mia communities as well as the tendency for social media platforms such as facebook and twitter to create echo chambers/filter bubbles through their algorithm

Source 21: Matteo Cinelli et al. Echo Chambers on Social Media: A comparative analysis. 2020. doi: 10.48550/ARXIV.2004.09603. url: https://arxiv.org/ abs/2004.09603.

original paper: https://thesis.unipd.it/bitstream/20.500.12608/42144/1/Sartori_Elisa.pdf

original post: https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/academic-thesis-about-sasu.105851/

what are your thoughts? do you agree, disagree, or partially agree/disagree? what's your reason for agreeing or rebuttal for diasgreeing? just bored and what to know what people will say to this

 

[NumbItAll]

By their definition I think it is a reasonable characterization. Pro-life / anti-choice views are not really allowed here and get shot down pretty quickly. However I am fine with that as I view it as a counter to the pro-life echo chamber that is the entire rest of the world, and this is the one escape from that. Nothing wrong with acknowledging it though.

 

[FuneralCry]

Well, there is a section for people who wish to 'recover' on here so I don't exactly think so. But I think the term 'echo chamber' is used by people who like to think of themselves as being so intelligent, more than they actually are. It's strange to me how people analyse suicide forums in that way, like seriously many people just want to die and escape from this hellish world, there is no need to over complicate things.

But in a suicide discussion, toxic forced optimism and disgusting pro life views should have no place there and that is a good thing if those views get removed, like people don't come on here in the first place to have their suffering invalidated by delusional people, and if having a hostile attitude towards pro life views makes this place an 'echo chamber', then so be it. The whole pro life mindset is like an illness anyway, it's harmful and the fact that so many people have been poisoned by it in this world, just means that far too much unnecessary suffering will inevitably be experienced and that is tragic.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I suppose they are right (in terms of how they described it...) If someone posts in a goodbye thread for example: 'Please don't do it! Think of your loved ones!' That individual likely won't last long here...

STILL- that doesn't make this place a death cult! (Not sure if they went that far but it has been alluded to elsewhere.) It is STILL pro choice to not necessarily offer the counter point of view in a goodbye thread because we are respecting the OP's OWN right to choose. Usually by that point- their mind is made up.

I think goodbye threads are fairly exceptional in a way. I suppose that's where a pro-lifer may think they will do the most 'good' in stopping the person going ahead with it. Still- I would say- that person has (usually) made up their mind by then. They're probably nervous- the last thing they want is the same argument they've likely been having all their life. Honestly, we're all likely on edge in goodbye threads. We're probably wondering what we'll feel like in their place. We're probably worried for the OP and hoping they won't suffer. Plus- it's a terrifying decision to make just in itself. To have someone come along with platitudes at that point is very distressing for all of us.

I would argue that other threads (non goodbye threads) are different. A lot of people will at least engage in conversation with someone who has more pro-life views. Occasionally, you do get the odd 'do-gooder' here. They probably aren't entirely welcomed but I think some people will give them a chance at least.

Plus, that article makes it sound as if people with pro-life views aren't able to comment because they can't register. I don't believe this is true. Maybe a mod can correct me but when I signed up, one of the criteria could be that you wanted to discuss the subject of suicide. I don't think you HAVE to be suicidal to be a member!

I would say- by and large- if anyone shows ANY sign of hesitancy and maybe faint hope that life might improve- members even in this section will encourage them to try. Maybe to seek out therapy etc. No one here would say- 'No- you're doomed... We all are! Just do it now...' Someone posting that would also be banned! In my experience- we ALWAYS emphasize that the choice HAS to be the individuals. PRO-CHOICE!

That said- yes- it's kind of inevitable this would be a very pessimistic place. We're all in pain or suffering with something life related. It's unlikely we're all going to start making great steps to 'save' one another (in the suicide discussion section at least.) That would be hypocritical.

I suppose the 'normies' worry is that an undecided, impressionable (youth most likely) will stumble onto here and get sucked into a void of despair. I suppose it is possible. I expect they could easily find all on here to confirm their worst suspicions: life is meaningless and it only gets worse.

It would also largely depend on what they wrote and how much information they shared as to our response though. If they said something like: they had been suicidal since a young age, were dealing with CPTSD and panic attacks and felt like they couldn't cope anymore. BUT also had a loving girlfriend and were about to start college... MAYBE we would be more likely to say- perhaps reach out for help. Perhaps see if the move to college changes things.

If on the other hand- they didn't disclose anything about their age or situation and only focused on their CPTSD, depression and panic attacks and how they couldn't cope anymore... PERHAPS we would be more likely to just try and sympathise with them and agree on how utterly terrible life is.

I don't think we try to 'convert' people to be more miserable or suicidal than they already are(!) Still- I suppose we do tend to 'echo' back what we hear from the OP.

 

[whatevs]

Yeah.

 

[Givenuponlife]

I'd agree that much if it can be described as an echo chamber, but I would also say that's a necessary consequence of the type of views expressed, which fulfil a very specific niche; in the case of this forum, it's being a pro-choice forum to discuss suicidal ideation, along with suicide methods in a no holds barred manner.

 

[WorthlessTrash]

Yes but this is our one safe place where we can express our feelings (or facts) about life being shit without being shot down.

 

[WhiteRabbit]

Yes. I think niche forums that revolve around taboo topics are almost always echo chambers.

 

[RainAndSadness]

Safe space =/= echo chamber. I've already explained this in the past. We literally have a recovery section and members register in this forum with the sole intention to use that subforum. But we have a strict ying-yang policy to ensure it remains a safe place for all members, people that aren't interested in recovery and people that are interested in recovery both have their places. And mixing them would cause chaos, it would completely destroy this place as we know it. And you get a small glimpse of that when some trolls use this forum to preach and proselytize, coerce and harass members. All of this happened but it doesn't happen on a large scale because there is quite a decent moderation in this forum. We have these rules for a reason and they're necessary to ensure our members feels safe and comfortable enough to express and share their honest thoughts. And people ususally highlight the ability to express themselves in this place without the same forced narrative you would experience in most places out there as one of the strenghts of this forum. But everyone is welcome as long as they don't violate these rules. Help and assistance is welcome - in the right places and if it happens with the respect to someones decisions and their individual autonomy. And it works. One of the strongest aspects of this forum is honest and compassionate support. What critics of this forum want, and that's what they actually demand when they claim we are an echo chamber, is a right to infringe on the autonomy of other people, to disrespect and invalidate decisions our members and it's a shame that this scientific paper is unable to get the distinction between an echo chamber and a safe space. Nonetheless, I appreciate the effort.

 

[Rainy_days]

They give their definition of echo chamber as, "On Oxford Languages dictionary [70], an echo chamber is defined as "an environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered"."

I suppose it kind of is an echo chamber, although I think most people find themselves here because they found only anti-choice echo chambers wherever else they tried to discuss suicide.

 

[theboy]

as it happens in all communication channels

 

[whatevs]

as it happens in all communication channels

"If it's not an echo chamber what's it good for?"

The Internet.

 

[wait.what]

It's an echo chamber if you like, and that's fine. Not every forum on the internet needs to be a "debate me" space, particularly since internet-style "debate" is mostly just posting identical images of Pepe the Frog with slightly different captions underneath them.

 

[Himalayan]

Everything is an echo chamber if you aren't using your neurons