Discussion Is my desire to ctb mine or depression?

[W’ren]

I'm diagnosed with major depressive disorder, SAD, generalized anxiety disorder, and a couple of others as well as fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue-

I have past attempts to ctb, one very close-over the last 20 years. I haven't attempted in the past few years because a few years ago i said i wouldn't make another attempt. In my head i finished the promise by saying "i will DO it"

So i have been getting worse, feeling more down and more awful since covid started and the lockdowns began (i am in canada- in a red zone) we aren't supposed to visit outside of our own household. :( It's been a long time. Since March.

I recently committed to ctb, went about getting a will kit, getting my means- making sure my dog has somewhere to live when i'm gone- i still need to get all my info together...

But i am wondering, in an intellectual fashion, could my commitment to ctb be based in illness? Or is it based in wise-mind solid thinking?

I have many reasons to ctb, I think my decision is rational and well thought through. But it suddenly occurred to me- what if my thinking is skewed and i don't really want to ctb and i just think i do?

I found it to be an interesting thought and i thought i would ask here- to see what you think...

I find it an interesting concept- since i'm diagnosed with psychiatric illnesses, the pro-lifers will automatically call my death a result of longstanding psychiatric problems. But I think i'm making a justified intellectual, intelligent, informed and rational decision.

If it's my wise mind choosing to ctb then ok that's good, but would mental illness affect it to make it the wrong move? Or would it not even matter- that wanting to ctb, mental illness or not, is my decision so keep moving forward with that nonetheless.

It's late and i hope i'm making sense?

 

[SmellyRat]

You've been dealt a bad hand like me...nobody would blame you for feeling this way

Only thing i'll miss is my doggo.

 

[Umbrellaterm]

You wanna ctb because you clearly do not fit in society.

Honestly, only you know but those diagnoses make you an outcast by default and humans need the group.

 

[W’ren]

I'll miss my dog too, but i found him a good home where he'll be safe and cared for. He's all that matters.

I have never fit in. Not anywhere. Never in all my life-

 

[antigone_iris]

But i am wondering, in an intellectual fashion, could my commitment to ctb be based in illness? Or is it based in wise-mind solid thinking?

I have many reasons to ctb, I think my decision is rational and well thought through. But it suddenly occurred to me- what if my thinking is skewed and i don't really want to ctb and i just think i do?

As a stranger on the internet, I couldn't answer these questions for you, encourage, or discourage you to ctb. I will ask you a few questions to which you don't have to reply here, just think about them.

1) Are you following a treatment scheme for your conditions? If yes, is it effective? Have you tried therapy of any kind, without meds?

2) Do you have a plan? Have you done all the research, read the possible consequences in case the attempt failed? If you have a plan, how does revising it make you feel?

If you feel like talking to someone about anything, we're here for you

 

[Jean Améry]

You do make sense and I applaud you for not only contemplating this issue but having the good sense of conferring with others.

The only problem is that we can't see what's going on in your mind so if we don't know what makes you think anybody but you can?

That being said I can offer some suggestions.

1) the great majority of those diagnosed with depression do not commit or even attempt suicide. Clearly suicide isn't a necessary consequence of depression inspite of the unsubstantiated claim of depression being the number one cause of suicide. That's an argument against the notion that your suicidality is due to mental illness: if there was a causal factor at play surely all or at least the majority of depressives should be suicidal.

2) of course your emotions could still cloud your judgement. I remember reading about one philosopher (the name escapes me) who claimed the decision to commit suicide would be rational if it could stand up to scrutiny in the form of cognitive-behavioural therapy (CBT). Clearly going to a therapist in order to determine the rationality of your thought process with regard to suicide is not a very viable option (they usually think suicide is always irrational and should be prevented, there are also laws forcing them to lock people up who are suicidal and whom they consider a suicide risk) but you could buy a book about it and apply the principles to your situation.

3) there is a phenomenon called 'depressive realism' that states that depressed people tend to see reality in a more sobering, realistic way than the non-depressed. Then again I'm not an expert in this so don't take my word for it and research this yourself. If it is indeed true depressed folks tend to see things more clearly/less biased that would be an argument pro the odds of suicide being rational in your case.

4) if the primary reason why you've been down lately is imposed social withdrawl due to a lockdown this does seem to be a temporary situation which should abate in time. That is an argument against suicide being rational at this time although it's understandable this is difficult for you. If you haven't done so already you should try to reach out to others in ways that don't require being physically present and see if it helps.

5) you seem quite astute and rational in your observations about reality, including the possibility of your own self-assesment not being accurate. While that by itself doesn't prove your reasoning about this is rational I'd say it does tend to favour the possibility. Truly irrational people don't question their own behaviour/thought process.

6) As to not fitting in socially: given that humans are social creatures that is a serious issue. I don't know what the problem is exactly but many people (myself included) do find a way to relate to others and learn to function socially with time so perhaps trying a number of ways to find people like yourself (with the same interests among other things) could be beneficial. I can't determine if this issue is unsolvable or not so rationality-wise it could go either way.

Are you in treatment for your depression and anxiety? If not it might make it more likely this is an issue that could be resolved which is an argument against this being rational.

If you are and the treatments simply do not work and you're in deep personal misery that would again favour the rational side. Untreatable depression that makes it impossible to enjoy life and be productive and of use to oneself and others seems to me a pretty rational reason to want to CTB. Medical impotence with regard to effective treatments is also a crucial legal and practical precondition in countries where euthanasia due to incurable, unbearable mental suffering is legal.

Of course these are just my thoughts on the matter based on what you've written. I cannot and will not advise on what you should do with regard to suicide. It'd be interesting to see others' comments and in any case in the end you should make your own evaluation and not rely on strangers' opinions.

Plus this clearly isn't the whole story. Could you detail your precise reasons?

As to your last question. Ultimately it's up to you but I think irrational suicide is deplorable and sad: why force yourself to go through a miserable, lonely and at the very least uncomfortable experience if it isn't necessary? The fact that you wonder about this seem to indicate you think in a similar vein.

I think you should explore the rationality of suicide debate in philosophy (this is a good start: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/suicide/, 3.7 - you'll find the referenced works in the bibliography at the end) and investigate the issue of depression making one irrational in psychology/psychiatry and contrast these findings with your own situation. You seem quite smart so you should be able to make up your own mind.

 

[W’ren]

"Plus this clearly isn't the whole story. Can you detail your precise reasons?"- quote

^^ sorry i couldn't figure out how to quote you using the quote button..

You're right, the isolation isn't the whole story. I don't want to feel like i have to justify my reasons for wanting/needing to ctb- but they include years of abuse that i am now free of but that have marked me and made relationships with others hard, if not impossible. I suffer from chronic pain that worsens with each year- i suspect i am misdiagnosed and believe i may actually have ms either as well as fibromyalgia or instead of fibro- i have fused cervical vertebrae... i lost my competitive career due to a devastating car accident and could not compete any longer due to pain. It was life altering- i was en route to the Olympics and then... i couldn't do anything. There was-is-only pain.
I have been revolving door psych ward patient in the past- i have been in therapy over many many years- i have tried to work this out- adjust medications, nothing works.
I keep running into walls- my family is dysfunctional- i was never able to have children of my own, my marriage ended when my ex husband lost it on Sept. 11th when the twin towers fell... we'd been married 11 days. Looking back i see him for what he was anyway- a total user. :(
There is so, so much more. I'm just done. Covid has given me time to think- maybe too much time- but that time alone has given me time to research and plan.
I'm tired of the constant pain, tired of the world- i'm terrified that Trump will win the presidency... he is symbolic of everything that is wrong and evil in life in my eyes- and i'm not even american... i can't understand how the americans can't see it!
I have good things in my life right now too, don't get me wrong- but it doesn't affect my choice. I have a fantastic dog but he is elderly- i may stick around until he passes and then ctb. If i feel the need to ctb before he goes, i have already secured a home for him where the people have actually said they will take him should anything happen to me.
Back to not fitting in- i have always had this sensation of being somehow born in the wrong era... I truly belong further in the past. I get this actual feeling in my body- it's weird- like a detached and almost dissociative thing- and i know i don't belong here, not here, not now. I've always felt this.
I have been diagnosed with a few things- but these days i wonder how much of it is just me shutting down because it is time to go.
I am eating disordered- but recovered- yet right now i barely eat at all.. i don't care about my weight... i just don't feel like eating. Is that still eating disordered? Is my EDNOS back? I don't know.
Are these enough reasons to ctb? I have a couple more- but those are private... I don't want to be judged but i wanted to give a bit of background and insight into what is going on in my mind, behind the consideration of 'is this depression or rational thinking?"
All of these issues aside, even suffering from depression, wanting to ctb has been a long standing thing with me. It is just recently that i've had enough and made my plans.
Hope this gives enough insight-