Is modern capitalism and the Western individualism shallow compared to a more traditional lifeststyle?

[noname223]

Who should listen to my thoughts on that question anyway? But it certainly plays a role in the propaganda war between both sides in the Ukraine war. I try to stay apolitical and rather put the emphasis on the societal aspect. (I did not accomplish that really)

Many say the modern Western lifestyle consists only of consumption, money greed and shallow work slavery. It is a popular criticism of capitalism. I think many people feel empty and lost inside. The digital world, social media and new family or community structures influence that probably. Globalisation creates winners and losers. In political or social studies they speak of the somewheres and anywheres. Not sure whether this differentiation is known internationally. I want to say by that that many people have the feeling our current system only serves the elites and only a small percentage profits of the recent developments. They ask themselves why they don't they earn more money when productivity increases. Instead inflation robs them. They see the stock markets go through the roof while their bills become higher and higher. Such an equality or unfairness fuels resentment against the system and many start doubting democracy. They question the system and lose confidence that the Western lifestyle is really the answer to our problems. Moreover many start to join protest movements on the left and right. Which increases polarization because both worlds drift into diametrical directions.

This was a description of the current state. Personally I think the Western lifestyle is still superior despite its many flaws. There are different alternatives to the current state. One could question democracy. Democracy seems to be slow and inefficient. Gerrymandering in the US for example shows how the system can easily be exploited. One could start to question the economical structures and question the narrative of equality and freedom in our societies. There is a lot of injustice. You just have to walk across the street to see several homeless people who were just crushed by the system and nobody gives a shit. The emphasis on individualism lets us feel alienated and lonely. Decades ago the people all had a certain role assigned. The new opportunities can as promising as they seem create new problems. We see this in partnerships.M any people feel overburdened by the new notions/expectations of what it means to be a man or a woman. Decades ago it was not so complex and everything seemed to be more simplistic. We have become more self-aware about stereotypes and some people are insecure because they don't understand the nuances which we try to remind ourselves. I mean by that in the modern era we try to be more enlightened. At school they try to teach the kids to question biases and not to assume just because someone is homeless that he is not crack addict for example. However not a small amount is just insecure. Some develop hatred against groups for not fitting into a certain world view.

I think the Russian alternative to the Western system has several allures. It serves the need in people for self-assurance. What feels right with their gut-feeling should be equivalent to the truth. This is why an appeal to human reasoning is popular by them.
I think another important appeal is the Russian narrative that in the West money rules the people. People would sell their grandmothers just for some grands. And I think this argument is kind of sexy because it contains truth in some way. Individiualism how it is celebrated in the West always emphasizes to make the best deal for oneself. The own ego and the own profit is the most important. Divorces spike new highs and the benefits of open relationships change the family system. Here again some people profit from that changes. And there are also losers due to that development. Some people willl necessarily end up lonely and are still exposed to social media where some people with photoshopped bodies celebrate lifestyle. Flying all around the world while lecturing people about the climate catastrophe and how ignorant the people are who dare to eat meat.

I could go on with that. There a lot of hypocrisies inherent in the Western lifestyle. I want to conclude why I still prefer the Western model. It gives the people the biggest chance for self-fulfilment. The biggest argument against that is that if you are poor you barely can achieve that also in the West. However choosing an autocratic system would make it even way worse. I think it is important that the societal hierarchies are permeable. Many people doubt thatmore and more. The American Dream is for many only a cynical joke when we see for example how the rents rise. However I just don't see how a return to the societal structures of let's say the 60s or 70s could make the people more happy in a longlasting manner. There is a lot of nostalgia. The crime rates were higher,there is medical progress etc inb the current world. Though not everything has become better. But compared to other countries we have more options to choos from. The main advantage of indiviudalism is that we all can enjoy the niches we all love. We can connect us with people from different locations and celebrate our peculiarities. We don't have to like each other but we can tolerate each other. Everyone can have his own way of living. Their own definiton how they want to create their life.

I am not sure whether this analysis is accurate in any way. I just wanted to make another long thread. Because my recent threads were more about my own struggles and not about life or society. Many probably will disagree. I think the analysis is stil quite superficial. But I don't have more energy currently. And who would want to read an even longer thread than this one.

 

[Ultracheese]

Take what I'm saying with a grain of salt as an 18-year-old who hasn't been there to witness a lot of the massive cultural/economic shifts America has gone through as a country.

I think that humanity as a species has always been obsessed with consumption or at least the idea of it. I think that as we began to transition out of the hunter-gatherer lifestyle where our needs were always focused on survival, we (or at least the more successful members of our species) were able to rest on our laurels a little. In older time periods, things like theater and art were often pastimes of the wealthy, because poorer people had to focus more on survival.

I'm not exactly sure when the shift started to change. When we talk about consumerism, we tend to think about who has the nicer house, car, kitchen gadgets, etc. But what about pop culture? I think that when it comes to consumerism, pop culture is a much more nuanced way of studying the angle compared to the economics lens, though the latter is probably more practical. It's a common view that consumerism and pop culture are both forms of escapism. I think the kind of art we consume says more about us as a society than what kind of products we buy. This leads to the question of whether art is a form of escapism or commentary about our times. I think it can be both. You mention the flaws in US democracy and economic structures in our society. I've noticed that becoming a more popular theme in film and TV, and people like to trace it back to internet rhetoric about "eating the rich." But this art is presumably being created by people who are also quite wealthy. I think about the film Triangle of Sadness, which has gotten a lot of attention for its anti-capitalist themes. But it's being shown at Cannes, one of the most prestigious and high-class film festivals in the world. If you're critiquing the same group you're part of, should you be given points for self-awareness? I make this point because I believe most of us, at least in the US, are consumerists whether we like it or not. Can we critique a system we actively propagate?

I appreciate a lot of your critiques against individualism, but I think our natural tendency to herd up into groups, or at least desire a group, has caused us more problems. I believe the habit of comparing ourselves to others is a product of herd mentality rather than individualism. We pursue goals of "happiness" based on what others tell us, whether family or society as a whole. I think this is inherent to us as a species unfortunately and I don't think it's something we can change.

To go back to your question, I don't believe we've changed that much compared to how we were leading our lives 50+ years ago. People still seek forms of escapism, art is both a way of doing this and a mirror for which we view ourselves as a culture without actively working to dismantle the systems we're critiquing, and we still yearn for an overarching societal standard that many of us will not achieve. I believe that these ideas transcend across both time periods and countries. Even in a country where the art they make is heavily regulated or almost entirely propaganda based, it will still be saying something about the time period, admittedly through a distorted lens. I agree with what you said here: "The main advantage of individualism is that we all can enjoy the niches we all love. We can connect us with people from different locations and celebrate our peculiarities. We don't have to like each other but we can tolerate each other. Everyone can have his own way of living. Their own definition how they want to create their life." I could go on a spiral about that, but I'll save that for another thread.

I agree with a lot of your analysis. Feel free to let me know if I've misunderstood anything you said. I always enjoy reading your threads, regardless of length. If you were to write a book about your views concerning society, culture, and your life, I'd definitely read it. You always have very thoughtful, nuanced ideas and articulate yourself very well.

 

[noname223]

Take what I'm saying with a grain of salt as an 18-year-old who hasn't been there to witness a lot of the massive cultural/economic shifts America has gone through as a country.

I think that humanity as a species has always been obsessed with consumption or at least the idea of it. I think that as we began to transition out of the hunter-gatherer lifestyle where our needs were always focused on survival, we (or at least the more successful members of our species) were able to rest on our laurels a little. In older time periods, things like theater and art were often pastimes of the wealthy, because poorer people had to focus more on survival.

I'm not exactly sure when the shift started to change. When we talk about consumerism, we tend to think about who has the nicer house, car, kitchen gadgets, etc. But what about pop culture? I think that when it comes to consumerism, pop culture is a much more nuanced way of studying the angle compared to the economics lens, though the latter is probably more practical. It's a common view that consumerism and pop culture are both forms of escapism. I think the kind of art we consume says more about us as a society than what kind of products we buy. This leads to the question of whether art is a form of escapism or commentary about our times. I think it can be both. You mention the flaws in US democracy and economic structures in our society. I've noticed that becoming a more popular theme in film and TV, and people like to trace it back to internet rhetoric about "eating the rich." But this art is presumably being created by people who are also quite wealthy. I think about the film Triangle of Sadness, which has gotten a lot of attention for its anti-capitalist themes. But it's being shown at Cannes, one of the most prestigious and high-class film festivals in the world. If you're critiquing the same group you're part of, should you be given points for self-awareness? I make this point because I believe most of us, at least in the US, are consumerists whether we like it or not. Can we critique a system we actively propagate?

I appreciate a lot of your critiques against individualism, but I think our natural tendency to herd up into groups, or at least desire a group, has caused us more problems. I believe the habit of comparing ourselves to others is a product of herd mentality rather than individualism. We pursue goals of "happiness" based on what others tell us, whether family or society as a whole. I think this is inherent to us as a species unfortunately and I don't think it's something we can change.

To go back to your question, I don't believe we've changed that much compared to how we were leading our lives 50+ years ago. People still seek forms of escapism, art is both a way of doing this and a mirror for which we view ourselves as a culture without actively working to dismantle the systems we're critiquing, and we still yearn for an overarching societal standard that many of us will not achieve. I believe that these ideas transcend across both time periods and countries. Even in a country where the art they make is heavily regulated or almost entirely propaganda based, it will still be saying something about the time period, admittedly through a distorted lens. I agree with what you said here: "The main advantage of individualism is that we all can enjoy the niches we all love. We can connect us with people from different locations and celebrate our peculiarities. We don't have to like each other but we can tolerate each other. Everyone can have his own way of living. Their own definition how they want to create their life." I could go on a spiral about that, but I'll save that for another thread.

I agree with a lot of your analysis. Feel free to let me know if I've misunderstood anything you said. I always enjoy reading your threads, regardless of length. If you were to write a book about your views concerning society, culture, and your life, I'd definitely read it. You always have very thoughtful, nuanced ideas and articulate yourself very well.

You understood everything write. And I think your comment was very insightful and nuanced either. For your age you seem to be quite reflective.
I could imagine that some of our differences stem from the fact we live in different cultures/ or countries. As a child I was always excited about the US because everything seemed to be louder and bigger than in my country. When I grew older I became way more skeptical about the "American way of life". (There are probably many different understandings or meanings for that term.)