Discussion Is mental suffering deserved?

[RosebyAnyName]

Do you think a person's mental suffering is always in some way earned or a result of one's own actions?

A lot of suffering is caused by a person's own actions. People are abused by their spouse because they got into a relationship and didn't see warning signs, people are abused because they put themselves in a position of danger. People go to prison for their crimes, and the point of the punishment is suffering, therefore is the suffering they experience in prison deserved or not (even if its disproportionate, like being abused by other inmates in prison)? Even if coming from an abusive family is not a person's fault, the way that person unconsciously imitates that abuse throughout their relationships is always considered their own fault, and the negative consequences are a direct result of those actions. People who imitate those abusive dynamics tend to be socially isolated, ostracized, and can even become the target for other abusers, and is that not deserved? Or, are they a victim of circumstances? Is there even such a thing as being "a victim of circumstance", or are people always in control of their actions? This is also in contrast to people who came from abusive backgrounds and did not become abusive themselves. It's through hard work that these people generally live better lives, therefore not putting in the work (or not even realizing there is work to do) and continuing to harm people means that the person deserves their isolation, just as how people are within their right to leave a relationship if it hurts them. Just as people are kind to people who are kind back, people are mean to people who are mean back, and its considered deserved.

A lot of stuff in the healing sphere is also about taking responsibility for oneself, yet also accepting that the past was not your fault. Isn't this arbitrary? When do we decide what is and is not a result of a person's actions? People will similarly get blamed and punished for severe enough crimes regardless of if they "knew" or not, because the harm caused to others is still the same. It's generous to assume that people who do bad things just don't know how to be better, what about the people who knew full well what they were doing, but still suffer and regret it? Is the consequences they face not still earned regardless of if they reject their past self and actions?

On the other hand, you have the just world fallacy, ie. the false belief that the world itself operates under its own moral system. "Good guys get rewarded, bad guys get punished," etc. This is obviously incorrect, and we see absolutely awful people living great lives, along with much better people living terrible lives.

 

[aufrechtm7]

No…"a lot" of suffering definitely isn't caused by a person's own actions. Not seeing warning signs in a relationship for whatever reason doesn't mean you deserve abuse. The prison analogy fails because the point of punishment isn't to cause suffering, it's about rehabilitation. The rest of this just focuses way too much on absolutes that don't reflect reality.

As for the second part, no it's not arbitrary. We can't control everything in our lives but we can control how we react and respond to things, life isn't black and white.

And for the last part? It's an unfortunate fact of reality, good people can and often are exploited by others.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I think sometimes- maybe. If we carry remorse and regret over ways we should have acted better. That's if we were the ones acting poorly.

As for blaming people who are bullied and abused- I think it goes too far to say they deserve it. Maybe we can say- they maybe could have done more to protect themselves- ideally.

Like you pointed out though- some people in abusive relationships were abused or witnessed abuse in their childhood. I had a friend who ended up with a very violent partner. Her Dad had been violent towards her Mum. I doubt it was a coincidence she ended up in the same situation.

You can't expect an infant or child to know how to deal with an abusive adult. They don't have the knowledge or power to escape. Perhaps they could do more to protect themselves as adults but then- I imagine their whole psychology has been rewired to- for instance- believe somehow they deserve that treatment. Maybe more unconscious things are going on. They are maybe trying to re-enact earlier trauma but with more control. (Whether that happens or not.)

I think it just reinforces the abuse they suffer though to further victim blame. I'm sure there is such thing as a vulnerable individual. They may not even be entirely aware of how they are being manipulated, until it's too late.

I also tend to wonder if the real bullies in this world do even suffer all that much. Why assume they are capable of acknowledging their own wrong doing and, feeling remorse about it? From what I'd witnessed- karma doesn't exist. Of the people I've known- it's the more gentle, good natured ones that seem to have suffered more. Why should someone suffer because they are kind and empathic?

 

[RosebyAnyName]

If abuse isn't deserved, then why did I deserve it? I also see lots of posts here about people saying they did bad things they regret and deserve the abuse they received.

What about inaction? If someone knows about and actively rejects healing, then is any suffering that could have been prevented by healing deserved? What if a person keeps trying and never heals enough no matter what? What is considered "trying enough" vs "not trying enough"? Is that really just pure bad luck or a social punishment in itself for still not trying hard enough? It's no secret that mentally ill people are also often socially rejected: just look at the stigmatization personality disorders and trauma victims get. Isolation can lead to poor mental health, and mental health issues then further scare people away. It's unrealistic in this society to expect other people to help those who are already struggling, it's even considered abusive to be outwardly upset (talking about suicide is "suicide baiting", sharing your struggles is "attention whoring", self-harming and other bad coping mechanisms are also "attention-seeking"). So, is it not reasonable to assume the responsibility is always on the individual for their own mental health? And, therefore, any success and failures are their own?