loggingin

loggingin

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May 26, 2025
23
For about 550 million years of active sentient evolution, animals have been tearing each other apart (eaten alive through predation, resource competition, hierarchy dynamics , territorial establishment, etc.). A rabbits reproductive strategy is to reproduce as much as possible to be able to have enough survive to create the next generation, studies show that around 80% or more rabbits die annually, with many young rabbits not being able to make it past their first year due to being hunted by snakes, birds of prey, coyotes, and wolves (predation).Lions kills cubs that aren't theirs and they compete with other male lions, chimps fight each other, sometimes to death for territory, mates, and food (hierarchy dynamics). Humans are contributing to the 6th mass extinction through deforestation, pollution, (resource competition and territorial establishment)

First world humans who aren't vegan are only one sentient organism, yet they consume many animals, even if you are a vegan, you exploit the ecosystem of the agriculture in which you get your vegetables/fruit (predator birds, prey birds, other prey animals like rodents ( mice, rabbits, insects) , so by existing you are causing harm. Animal consumption harms animals, plant consumptions harms inhabitants of the agricultural ecosystem, being a first worlder means you exploit the 3rd world's labor and resources. hierarchical subjective opinions like beauty contributes to notions of ugliness which reinforces bullying, suicide/self harm, eugenics, etc. Another one is that, a society that values labor/assets (being a genius , pro athlete, rich billionaire) will view those that cant produce those for any reason such as mental illness, disability , depression, as "lesser" thus a hierarchy that leads to poor self esteem which can lead to the same things from the previous like suicide.

If reincarnation existed, statistically speaking , you're just going to get eaten alive over and over again through predation by being placed low on the food web/chain as an animal . And to that, some will say , "but I am human and I have a human soul , therefore I'm going to be reincarnated as a human forever " . But to that, I would argue that it is unlikely, because from science we know that 185 million generations ago our ancestors evolved out of the water from fish into land vertebrates, and before that it was a asexual replicating molecule at abiogenesis. We are one in the same with animals as we came out of the same stock, so there's no reason to believe that we can't reincarnate as animals if reincarnation exists, so... statistically speaking, if reincarnation exists, its nightmare narratives upon nightmare narratives in the billions happening over and over again because you're going to get brutally torn apart and get eaten alive over and over again, this idea is what turned me into a philosophical pessimist, I philosophically acknowledge that existence would be better off if it never existed (whether its possible or not) .

To refer back to the last paragraph, it covers the circumstance of being reincarnated as an animal which is the statistical likely outcome, but it also referred to people assuming that being reincarnated as a human is good as well, in which I would strongly disagree, humans suffer through hierarchy dynamics , ideological disagreements leads to wars which are still going on to this day(disputes over socialism/capitalism/communism/fascism/religion etc.), human greed can trigger war through economic incentives , such as wanting to invade another country for oil. Many people die in war throughout human history and its still going on to this day. Humans also suffer from human social hierarchy dynamics (as i discussed in the 2nd paragraph) such as the value of beauty and the value of talent in terms of skills/labor production. So in many ways , even being reincarnated as human forever is almost as terrible as the average animal. You need to secure many privileges in order to be "happy" and comfortable, for instance , in a "beautiful" grassy field , you need to have dominance in the territory in order for you to be comfortable, You need to be capable of killing the predators (bears , coyotes , wolves , bobcats, etc.) at your will . Secure food at your will, which may be meat and vegetables, you have to claim some animals as your own, and have their families constantly reproduce for the sole purpose of your own consumption, and you have to be capable of defending the vegetables and meat as your own from other beings(bugs, predator animals including other humans) that want it. You need to be considered beautiful amongst people who will be considered less attractive relative to you, and you need to be considered talented, productive and "not lazy" compared to people with less of those qualities than yourself to be comfortable with where you stand within the human hierarchy , if not the pressure may crush you to death. As a philosophical pessimist observing reality, sentient lives functioning within physical material existence can be described as a bucket of crabs, the whole system creates pain, you have more pain the less you are at the top, and the top is rewarded with relatively more pleasure and comfortability due to exploiting those below them, the farther you are below in terms of general hierarchy and privilege the more you get crushed. In addition, if you are an intelligent and empathetic being, if you are comfortable and at the top, how can you be happy knowing you are benefitting from exploiting other sentient beings, and others are being crushed for their immutable physical/neurological characteristics that they have little to no control over, if you are an empathetic and intelligent being, how can you be happy knowing you are sitting on top of a throne of blood and gore?

Humans are stuck on a "hedonic treadmill", objective fulfilment doesn't exist, that's another reason why there is no meaning, we are just stimulating our brains in a way that it wants for pleasure, we are biological/evolutionary beings wired to "act" in the world for reproductive success. if we were stuck in a sensory deprivation room/chamber, you'll go crazy and desire to go away from it (sedentary creatures are not reproductively successful). and you desire towards pleasure (environments and interactions/actions that your brain prefers). we will be bothered by our brains mechanism of desire forever as long as we exist, our brains induce it into us. Needs don't need to exist, the only ethical plane of existence is nonexistence or a utopia(which is impossible) , which means there is no ethical plane of existence. Our only salvation is eternal nothingness when we die (if it exists). We are nothing but insatiable desire engines, insatiable desire monsters born to keep on having hunger for needs that don't need to exist as we live whilst being unethical and causing harm while we exist.

I think the last main pessimistic idea I have that can be shared is, existence is only material, and material has no intrinsic value, and people usually respond with "love, love has value, love is not material and love is the meaning of life", and I will say that love IS material. When you interact with the people you "love" (friends ,family , romantic relationships), you communicate with them about material interactions with the physical world, and material interests don't last forever, even if you could live for an eternity through some technological breakthrough, eventually you will get tired of them. You will break up with your family, friends and partners if given enough time. This is why I believe that "true love" doesn't exist either, love is about material interactions and material interests don't last forever. Existence is superficial, materialistic( and material has no intrinsic value) and unethical, this is why I believe that "narrative is dead" , if you can record the beginning and end of your life into a book, they're all just material and material interactions, the distinctions between why you enjoy one thing vs another isn't even rational, you cant even decide when you get bored of them.

Atheism, philosophical pessimism , antinatalism, existential/cosmic nihilism , and promortalism implies suicide, this is why the vast majority of the population has an aversion to pessimistic ideas, its because we are genetically wired through evolution to have an aversion towards death and pain, and an inclination towards reproduction and other pleasures. Natalism is implicitly optimistic as the action presumes that life is beautiful, valuable, meaningful, and we are born into the world being introduced to optimistic ideas like there is a possibility of visiting a utopia (heaven) with an all powerful, all loving, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent "God". Meanwhile pessimistic ideas are highly censored, if an old person said "I wouldn't do life over again if i could" they will tell him to shut up, "things get better with time", "it gets better" is spread everywhere but you never hear the opposite, and if you do that person will be highly shunned and ostracized. This is because humans evolved to value reproduction, and because of such they attack pessimism at any opportunity. The landscape of optimism vs pessimism is the DNA replicating molecule since abiogenesis is gatekeeping against pessimism to reinforce and maximize replication.

Its not hidden like God that we need to "see to believe it" or must "believe without evidence to have faith", we KNOW that the vast majority of sentient life gets destroyed brutally, and people still cant accept philosophical pessimism. there is no free will anyway, you don't get to decide what you like and who you are anyway, existence is unethical anyway, satisfaction doesn't exist anyway, and you're going to die anyway. The moral landscape we are born into can be described as being in a pool of diarrhea, but even this exaggeration to emphasize the filth may not even be enough. But once you are aware of how disgusting it is , how can you even embrace it? Once you accept philosophical pessimism you cant look back. And lastly, to reiterate one of the main conclusions about my existential worldview is that I acknowledge that when I die, I prefer to not reincarnate or be in heaven or hell, I would prefer to not exist for forever.
 
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pthnrdnojvsc

pthnrdnojvsc

Extreme Pain is much worse than people know
Aug 12, 2019
4,152
Yes. i agree with the OP post. i agree with Pessimism.

The worst pain and the extremely horrible things that can happen far outweigh the meaningless fleeting pleasurable addictions.

there is no objective reason to have to work so hard every day just to exist to risk something even more horrible trapping you.

And then to get old , decay, decline and become immobile in very old age all for no reason.

i don't want to exist as a brain that can suffer unending constant unbearable pain.

Non-existence forever is a billion times better than being alive because only in Eternal Non-Existence can one not suffer unbearable pain that is a trillion times worse than one can imagine.

But yes while alive any human can suffer extremely . so Permanent Non-existence > living

i'm glad 1 micro second after my brain dies i will cease to exist for all time.

the only problem is that while i'm alive i can fall into a trap of extreme suffering. yes life is fleeting but who wants to go through extreme torture when 1 second of the worst pain can seem to last years ? not me .
 
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WhatCouldHaveBeen32

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Oct 12, 2024
947
I somewhat agree.

I believe that humans are bound to hit the great filter. I also believe that it would've been better to remain in the millions and not go into the billions.

But that is utopic, think of the fictional elven tribes where there are like 10k elves and they reproduce once a milenia and when they do it's more of a complete necessity and at the same time tragedy.

It's utopic because humans don't really have this view about life. But if we're here and we ain't going extinct and we have already gotten to 8 billion, I think people should still strive for veganism, we should still strive for equality, we should still strive for love and understanding, we should still cry for the people that are now trafficked and raped or tortured who knows where, filmed like they are goods. We should cry for the millions of animals that are slaughtered and going down the drain to be turned into paste; at least I do, not everyday, but when the thoughts overwhelm me, when I think about it, when nobody is looking, when it's dark outside and I am so tired, I do cry myself thinking about all of them, so I think I proved you wrong as I gain nothing from this, I haven't told anyone besides you and one other person.

I gain nothing from you congratulating me, I gain nothing from proving your point wrong, I just want to tell you that there are people whom you won't be able to see, whom you won't be able to comprehend because they are outside the status quo, and these people defy these criticisms that you have with society and humans; these people are MUTANTS AND THEY PISS ME OFF because of that. I'm included there, I piss myself off more than anyone I know.
 
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loggingin

loggingin

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May 26, 2025
23
Yes. i agree with the OP post. i agree with Pessimism.

The worst pain and the extremely horrible things that can happen far outweigh the meaningless fleeting pleasurable addictions.

there is no objective reason to have to work so hard every day just to exist to risk something even more horrible trapping you.

And then to get old , decay, decline and become immobile in very old age all for no reason.

i don't want to exist as a brain that can suffer unending constant unbearable pain.

Non-existence forever is a billion times better than being alive because only in Eternal Non-Existence can one not suffer unbearable pain that is a trillion times worse than one can imagine.

But yes while alive any human can suffer extremely . so Permanent Non-existence > living
one of the reasons why I wish I never existed, is so I wont have to contemplate existential questions including death.
I somewhat agree.

I believe that humans are bound to hit the great filter. I also believe that it would've been better to remain in the millions and not go into the billions.

But that is utopic, think of the fictional elven tribes where there are like 10k elves and they reproduce once a milenia and when they do it's more of a complete necessity and at the same time tragedy.

It's utopic because humans don't really have this view about life. But if we're here and we ain't going extinct and we have already gotten to 8 billion, I think people should still strive for veganism, we should still strive for equality, we should still strive for love and understanding, we should still cry for the people that are now trafficked and raped or tortured who knows where, filmed like they are goods. We should cry for the millions of animals that are slaughtered and going down the drain to be turned into paste; at least I do, not everyday, but when the thoughts overwhelm me, when I think about it, when nobody is looking, when it's dark outside and I am so tired, I do cry myself thinking about all of them, so I think I proved you wrong as I gain nothing from this, I haven't told anyone besides you and one other person.

I gain nothing from you congratulating me, I gain nothing from proving your point wrong, I just want to tell you that there are people whom you won't be able to see, whom you won't be able to comprehend because they are outside the status quo, and these people defy these criticisms that you have with society and humans; these people are MUTANTS AND THEY PISS ME OFF because of that. I'm included there, I piss myself off more than anyone I know.
how did I prove you wrong? and when did I congratulate you though? interesting nonetheless
 
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WhatCouldHaveBeen32

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Oct 12, 2024
947
one of the reasons why I wish I never existed, is so I wont have to contemplate existential questions including death.

how did I prove you wrong? and when did I congratulate you though? interesting nonetheless
You didn't prove me wrong, that's not what I meant. The fact that I cry for people trafficked and animals getting blended into a paste kind of proves your point wrong that love is only materialistic. I gain nothing from crying for people or animals. Even if you or anyone else would find that impressive and congratulate me for being that way, it wouldn't be the reason I'm doing it nor would it enforce that I should keep doing it.

I don't love them because of a material reason. I do it because nobody else does and I hate that fact; it doesn't change the feelings that I still hate that nobody loves these people or animals and it doesn't make me feel better, in fact it makes me feel worse everytime I do it, everytime I'm reminded of the tortures of this world. And I'm not masochistic.

Now you could say that it's just determinism and that's why I feel that way and I can't argue with that. Maybe I was always meant to be this way, maybe even when love can exist and not be materialistic or selfish, it's only because it was the statistical anomaly that was just BOUND to happen at some point. Even when love exists outside of materialism, it's still under the control of determinism, it isn't natural, it's just another statistic and anomaly that was just BOUND to happen. Sad.
 
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loggingin

loggingin

Member
May 26, 2025
23
You didn't prove me wrong, that's not what I meant. The fact that I cry for people trafficked and animals getting blended into a paste kind of proves your point wrong that love is only materialistic. I gain nothing from crying for people or animals. Even if you or anyone else would find that impressive and congratulate me for being that way, it wouldn't be the reason I'm doing it nor would it enforce that I should keep doing it.

I don't love them because of a material reason. I do it because nobody else does and I hate that fact; it doesn't change the feelings that I still hate that nobody loves these people or animals and it doesn't make me feel better, in fact it makes me feel worse everytime I do it, everytime I'm reminded of the tortures of this world. And I'm not masochistic.

Now you could say that it's just determinism and that's why I feel that way and I can't argue with that. Maybe I was always meant to be this way, maybe even when love can exist and not be materialistic or selfish, it's only because it was the statistical anomaly that was just BOUND to happen at some point. Even when love exists outside of materialism, it's still under the control of determinism, it isn't natural, it's just another statistic and anomaly that was just BOUND to happen. Sad.
i view it differently, i dont "love" animals especially if i dont know them personally. but i do empathize with their pain in the sense i acknowledge that being born into a bloodbath for around 550 million years is insane on the level of the whole and the individual. but i wouldnt personally call it "love"

that being said, I dont want to invalidate your view, its a fine perspective to have.

the material reason can be stated as, your brain evolved neurochemical/biological reactions called "empathy and sadness" and you acknowledge that the material interactions of being infested with parasites, having their throat slit by a human blade, having their abdominals forced open by the mouth of a predator is reacting with the victims nerve endings to produce a feeling we call pain. you can also still gain a sense of wisdom and self-righteousness from acknowledging the pain that occurs and the extent that it happens, and how others are oblivious to the severity of it. of course not saying that the gain is worth the overwhelming pain, just saying you still gain something (in response to saying you dont gain anything, because you do technically gain something even though its not worth it, but yeah that isnt even your point and i can sort of see where youre comming from).

i think our main differences is that we view "love" differently, I dont "love" random people or animals i never encountered before, and having empathy to wish they are in good circumstances or "never had been" in the first place has nothing to do with it.
 
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WhatCouldHaveBeen32

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Oct 12, 2024
947
i view it differently, i dont "love" animals especially if i dont know them personally. but i do empathize with their pain in the sense i acknowledge that being born into a bloodbath for around 550 million years is insane on the level of the whole and the individual. but i wouldnt personally call it "love"

that being said, I dont want to invalidate your view, its a fine perspective to have.

the material reason can be stated as, your brain evolved neurochemical/biological reactions called "empathy and sadness" and you acknowledge that the material interactions of being infested with parasites, having their throat slit by a human blade, having their abdominals forced open by the mouth of a predator is reacting with the victims nerve endings to produce a feeling we call pain. you can also still gain a sense of wisdom and self-righteousness from acknowledging the pain that occurs and the extent that it happens, and how others are oblivious to the severity of it. of course not saying that the gain is worth the overwhelming pain, just saying you still gain something (in response to saying you dont gain anything, because you do technically gain something even though its not worth it, but yeah that isnt even your point and i can sort of see where youre comming from).

i think our main differences is that we view "love" differently, I dont "love" random people or animals i never encountered before, and having empathy to wish they are in good circumstances or "never had been" in the first place has nothing to do with it.
I guess I do gain so called wisdom or self-righteousness even if I personally don't care for it.
I try not to think too much about this part, even if it's all just neuro chemical, what should I do? go the opposite path and cause pain? This is the path that causes the least amount of pain and even if it's something outside my control, I'm happy that I happened upon it.
 
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loggingin

loggingin

Member
May 26, 2025
23
I guess I do gain so called wisdom or self-righteousness even if I personally don't care for it.
I try not to think too much about this part, even if it's all just neuro chemical, what should I do? go the opposite path and cause pain? This is the path that causes the least amount of pain and even if it's something outside my control, I'm happy that I happened upon it.
of course we shouldnt do the opposite and cause pain, but as for harm reduction, thats one of the biggest questions ever. "is it possible to end pain or even sentience for good" because it may very well be impossible if sentient lives exist forever within this world and if other hypothetical planes of existences with sentience exist.

antinatalism is not pragmatic, and veganism will not guarantee that animals wont get eaten by humans (the carnivore diet is suddenly on the rise for example), let alone other animals. all we can do is hope for harm reduction and the lesser evils, so of course we should still fight for equality and veganism etc.

even if you look at antinatalism, people argue that its not realistic , and that human reproduction is permissible since humans are the only creatures with the potential to either maintain suffering or ending it all if need be. which means you're dragging merely an attempt of a lesser evil, with the potential for risk, such as a "bubble pop" to the maintained peace with a world war or something.

as a pessimist, I think that pain, especially in the severity and high net quantity will exist and be dragged out forever, and the best we can do is attempt to stop it even though it is mostly futile.
 
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WhatCouldHaveBeen32

(O__O)==>(X__X)
Oct 12, 2024
947
of course we shouldnt do the opposite and cause pain, but as for harm reduction, thats one of the biggest questions ever. "is it possible to end pain or even sentience for good" because it may very well be impossible if sentient lives exist forever within this world and if other hypothetical planes of existences with sentience exist.

antinatalism is not pragmatic, and veganism will not guarantee that animals wont get eaten by humans (the carnivore diet is suddenly on the rise for example), let alone other animals. all we can do is hope for harm reduction and the lesser evils, so of course we should still fight for equality and veganism etc.

even if you look at antinatalism, people argue that its not realistic , and that human reproduction is permissible since humans are the only creatures with the potential to either maintain suffering or ending it all if need be. which means you're dragging merely an attempt of a lesser evil, with the potential for risk, such as a "bubble pop" to the maintained peace with a world war or something.

as a pessimist, I think that pain, especially in the severity and high net quantity will exist and be dragged out forever, and the best we can do is attempt to stop it even though it is mostly futile.
I think people only need to acknowledge these things as a possible reality which they refuse to do. Instead of looking at it that way, they think you are lecturing them and they get angry at you. I'm not, I just want people to be more knowledgeable or at least say "well that might be the case but I don't want to know because I'd feel bad". I want more honesty in the world tbh.
 
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dieingasap

Member
Apr 28, 2025
39
How you all people and read and type this much ?
Seems I am very bad at reading text on screen and type
Or maybe I am just too lazy
 
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loggingin

loggingin

Member
May 26, 2025
23
How you all people and read and type this much ?
Seems I am very bad at reading text on screen and type
Or maybe I am just too lazy
its only about 1600 words, but I understand the fatigue in not wanting to read sometimes, sometimes you are unsure if long paragraphs will actually be beneficial to your life or will be useful to reincorporate into your logic. and you cant just read everything because what if you read for 2 hours and it ends up completely useless to you. that being said, you dont have to read the short essay i wrote, im just a man expressing myself on sanctioned-suicide.net, but i do assure you , i worked really hard on writing it, i didnt use chat gpt to write it at all, at it sums up most of my existential philosophy on how i view the nature of reality. ;)
 
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FuneralCry

FuneralCry

Just wanting some peace
Sep 24, 2020
46,553
I understand, existence to me is just so evil, all it does is just cause all this harm, suffering and cruelty all for the sake of it with no limit as to how much one can be tortured and I always suffer so much as a result of the mistake of existence, the fact that humans continue to impose this existence is such a horrific tragedy as to suffer in this reality truly is an abomination.

Tp exist means to suffer and no matter what I'll prefer the true peace of non-existence over being burdened with this torturous existence of dreadful suffering, all that existence ever does is harm and torture existing beings, the suffering of existing truly is endless.
 
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Ligottian

Enlightened
Dec 19, 2021
1,196
For about 550 million years of active sentient evolution, animals have been tearing each other apart (eaten alive through predation, resource competition, hierarchy dynamics , territorial establishment, etc.). A rabbits reproductive strategy is to reproduce as much as possible to be able to have enough survive to create the next generation, studies show that around 80% or more rabbits die annually, with many young rabbits not being able to make it past their first year due to being hunted by snakes, birds of prey, coyotes, and wolves (predation).Lions kills cubs that aren't theirs and they compete with other male lions, chimps fight each other, sometimes to death for territory, mates, and food (hierarchy dynamics). Humans are contributing to the 6th mass extinction through deforestation, pollution, (resource competition and territorial establishment)

First world humans who aren't vegan are only one sentient organism, yet they consume many animals, even if you are a vegan, you exploit the ecosystem of the agriculture in which you get your vegetables/fruit (predator birds, prey birds, other prey animals like rodents ( mice, rabbits, insects) , so by existing you are causing harm. Animal consumption harms animals, plant consumptions harms inhabitants of the agricultural ecosystem, being a first worlder means you exploit the 3rd world's labor and resources. hierarchical subjective opinions like beauty contributes to notions of ugliness which reinforces bullying, suicide/self harm, eugenics, etc. Another one is that, a society that values labor/assets (being a genius , pro athlete, rich billionaire) will view those that cant produce those for any reason such as mental illness, disability , depression, as "lesser" thus a hierarchy that leads to poor self esteem which can lead to the same things from the previous like suicide.

If reincarnation existed, statistically speaking , you're just going to get eaten alive over and over again through predation by being placed low on the food web/chain as an animal . And to that, some will say , "but I am human and I have a human soul , therefore I'm going to be reincarnated as a human forever " . But to that, I would argue that it is unlikely, because from science we know that 185 million generations ago our ancestors evolved out of the water from fish into land vertebrates, and before that it was a asexual replicating molecule at abiogenesis. We are one in the same with animals as we came out of the same stock, so there's no reason to believe that we can't reincarnate as animals if reincarnation exists, so... statistically speaking, if reincarnation exists, its nightmare narratives upon nightmare narratives in the billions happening over and over again because you're going to get brutally torn apart and get eaten alive over and over again, this idea is what turned me into a philosophical pessimist, I philosophically acknowledge that existence would be better off if it never existed (whether its possible or not) .

To refer back to the last paragraph, it covers the circumstance of being reincarnated as an animal which is the statistical likely outcome, but it also referred to people assuming that being reincarnated as a human is good as well, in which I would strongly disagree, humans suffer through hierarchy dynamics , ideological disagreements leads to wars which are still going on to this day(disputes over socialism/capitalism/communism/fascism/religion etc.), human greed can trigger war through economic incentives , such as wanting to invade another country for oil. Many people die in war throughout human history and its still going on to this day. Humans also suffer from human social hierarchy dynamics (as i discussed in the 2nd paragraph) such as the value of beauty and the value of talent in terms of skills/labor production. So in many ways , even being reincarnated as human forever is almost as terrible as the average animal. You need to secure many privileges in order to be "happy" and comfortable, for instance , in a "beautiful" grassy field , you need to have dominance in the territory in order for you to be comfortable, You need to be capable of killing the predators (bears , coyotes , wolves , bobcats, etc.) at your will . Secure food at your will, which may be meat and vegetables, you have to claim some animals as your own, and have their families constantly reproduce for the sole purpose of your own consumption, and you have to be capable of defending the vegetables and meat as your own from other beings(bugs, predator animals including other humans) that want it. You need to be considered beautiful amongst people who will be considered less attractive relative to you, and you need to be considered talented, productive and "not lazy" compared to people with less of those qualities than yourself to be comfortable with where you stand within the human hierarchy , if not the pressure may crush you to death. As a philosophical pessimist observing reality, sentient lives functioning within physical material existence can be described as a bucket of crabs, the whole system creates pain, you have more pain the less you are at the top, and the top is rewarded with relatively more pleasure and comfortability due to exploiting those below them, the farther you are below in terms of general hierarchy and privilege the more you get crushed. In addition, if you are an intelligent and empathetic being, if you are comfortable and at the top, how can you be happy knowing you are benefitting from exploiting other sentient beings, and others are being crushed for their immutable physical/neurological characteristics that they have little to no control over, if you are an empathetic and intelligent being, how can you be happy knowing you are sitting on top of a throne of blood and gore?

Humans are stuck on a "hedonic treadmill", objective fulfilment doesn't exist, that's another reason why there is no meaning, we are just stimulating our brains in a way that it wants for pleasure, we are biological/evolutionary beings wired to "act" in the world for reproductive success. if we were stuck in a sensory deprivation room/chamber, you'll go crazy and desire to go away from it (sedentary creatures are not reproductively successful). and you desire towards pleasure (environments and interactions/actions that your brain prefers). we will be bothered by our brains mechanism of desire forever as long as we exist, our brains induce it into us. Needs don't need to exist, the only ethical plane of existence is nonexistence or a utopia(which is impossible) , which means there is no ethical plane of existence. Our only salvation is eternal nothingness when we die (if it exists). We are nothing but insatiable desire engines, insatiable desire monsters born to keep on having hunger for needs that don't need to exist as we live whilst being unethical and causing harm while we exist.

I think the last main pessimistic idea I have that can be shared is, existence is only material, and material has no intrinsic value, and people usually respond with "love, love has value, love is not material and love is the meaning of life", and I will say that love IS material. When you interact with the people you "love" (friends ,family , romantic relationships), you communicate with them about material interactions with the physical world, and material interests don't last forever, even if you could live for an eternity through some technological breakthrough, eventually you will get tired of them. You will break up with your family, friends and partners if given enough time. This is why I believe that "true love" doesn't exist either, love is about material interactions and material interests don't last forever. Existence is superficial, materialistic( and material has no intrinsic value) and unethical, this is why I believe that "narrative is dead" , if you can record the beginning and end of your life into a book, they're all just material and material interactions, the distinctions between why you enjoy one thing vs another isn't even rational, you cant even decide when you get bored of them.

Atheism, philosophical pessimism , antinatalism, existential/cosmic nihilism , and promortalism implies suicide, this is why the vast majority of the population has an aversion to pessimistic ideas, its because we are genetically wired through evolution to have an aversion towards death and pain, and an inclination towards reproduction and other pleasures. Natalism is implicitly optimistic as the action presumes that life is beautiful, valuable, meaningful, and we are born into the world being introduced to optimistic ideas like there is a possibility of visiting a utopia (heaven) with an all powerful, all loving, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent "God". Meanwhile pessimistic ideas are highly censored, if an old person said "I wouldn't do life over again if i could" they will tell him to shut up, "things get better with time", "it gets better" is spread everywhere but you never hear the opposite, and if you do that person will be highly shunned and ostracized. This is because humans evolved to value reproduction, and because of such they attack pessimism at any opportunity. The landscape of optimism vs pessimism is the DNA replicating molecule since abiogenesis is gatekeeping against pessimism to reinforce and maximize replication.

Its not hidden like God that we need to "see to believe it" or must "believe without evidence to have faith", we KNOW that the vast majority of sentient life gets destroyed brutally, and people still cant accept philosophical pessimism. there is no free will anyway, you don't get to decide what you like and who you are anyway, existence is unethical anyway, satisfaction doesn't exist anyway, and you're going to die anyway. The moral landscape we are born into can be described as being in a pool of diarrhea, but even this exaggeration to emphasize the filth may not even be enough. But once you are aware of how disgusting it is , how can you even embrace it? Once you accept philosophical pessimism you cant look back. And lastly, to reiterate one of the main conclusions about my existential worldview is that I acknowledge that when I die, I prefer to not reincarnate or be in heaven or hell, I would prefer to not exist for forever.
All pessimists should read Thomas Ligotti's The Conspiracy Against The Human Race.
 
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loggingin

loggingin

Member
May 26, 2025
23
All pessimists should read Thomas Ligotti's The Conspiracy Against The Human Race.
ill get around to it, but from what im skimming through already. thomas ligotti is up my alley, ive heard of him but didnt have the time to read him yet due to the mental stresses of reality and competing priorities
 
F

Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
14,243
I agree with the thoughts overall but then, I think day to day, we may all be primarily influenced by causality- cause and effect- when it comes to our actions. What action in this moment or foreseeable future will likely bring me pain or pleasure?

I think morals can come into it, eg. I'd prefer to order spare ribs and chicken chow mein but I'll stick with plain rice and vegetables. But, we'll also use reasoning to make the choices we personally prefer. A family member pointed out that me going vegetarian wouldn't prevent wholesale animal slaughter. Which is true but, it's one less person creating the demand for it.

I imagine many of us will still make questionable choices though because we feel sure the overall system won't change. It can mean denying ourselves pleasure too. Maybe we really crave meat or, we really wanted that cheap t- shirt or that drink in the single use plastic bottle. When the majority are living a certain way, it's easy to convince ourselves we're not adding too much damage, doing the same.

Realistically though- if we aren't able to kill ourselves right this moment- we have to find a way to live that is bearable. Then, I think it comes down to our situation. I'm absolutely a cynic and pessimist to the extreme but then- I have to at least partly fit into this world in order to make a living in it. If I lived and absolutely expressed how I felt, I doubt I'd be very employable.

I think we either mask or adapt in order to avoid the pain of being ostracized loose our jobs/ homes.
 
loggingin

loggingin

Member
May 26, 2025
23
I agree with the thoughts overall but then, I think day to day, we may all be primarily influenced by causality- cause and effect- when it comes to our actions. What action in this moment or foreseeable future will likely bring me pain or pleasure?

I think morals can come into it, eg. I'd prefer to order spare ribs and chicken chow mein but I'll stick with plain rice and vegetables. But, we'll also use reasoning to make the choices we personally prefer. A family member pointed out that me going vegetarian wouldn't prevent wholesale animal slaughter. Which is true but, it's one less person creating the demand for it.

I imagine many of us will still make questionable choices though because we feel sure the overall system won't change. It can mean denying ourselves pleasure too. Maybe we really crave meat or, we really wanted that cheap t- shirt or that drink in the single use plastic bottle. When the majority are living a certain way, it's easy to convince ourselves we're not adding too much damage, doing the same.

Realistically though- if we aren't able to kill ourselves right this moment- we have to find a way to live that is bearable. Then, I think it comes down to our situation. I'm absolutely a cynic and pessimist to the extreme but then- I have to at least partly fit into this world in order to make a living in it. If I lived and absolutely expressed how I felt, I doubt I'd be very employable.

I think we either mask or adapt in order to avoid the pain of being ostracized loose our jobs/ homes.
i agree, i am a philosophical pessimist, and i agree with the premise of promortalism, however im not actually going to commit suicide. and im going to live in the meantime.

and i am a determinist , i dont believe in free will. so yes, the current moment is created by a chain of causality,
 
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OnMyLast Legs

OnMyLast Legs

Too many regrets
Oct 29, 2024
768
The most I can say is life is really hard. Some people are up for it. Some people aren't. If you break internally it's really over.
 
L

Ligottian

Enlightened
Dec 19, 2021
1,196
ill get around to it, but from what im skimming through already. thomas ligotti is up my alley, ive heard of him but didnt have the time to read him yet due to the mental stresses of reality and competing priorities
It will be worth it.
 

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