Is a forced stay at the mental hospital after a attempt justified?

[Yona]

Let's say I fail at my attempt and I'll be put in a mental hospital. Is that fair? Since I decided to take my own life, but can't do it.

I want to get some different opinions on that topic. What do you think?

 

[ceelo]

nope, its the usual self righteous road to hell paved with god intentions shite, if someone wants to die the most ethical thing to do is help and help them get to it as peacefully as possible.

 

[Inner_dialogue]

Unless you live in the UK, they don't tend to hospitalise even after an attempt!

 

[Ardesevent]

Not fair at all. Throwing someone in a hospital for a few days isn't going to solve any of their problems. Their time and the hospital's resources are just getting wasted.

 

[MephistoJustBeneath]

No. Being detained at your own expense is never justified, especially not in that kind of scenario. If I botched my attempt and I were about to be hauled off to an institution, I'd run out with a knife and let the police gun me down. All mental health "professionals" are worthless cops who only want to prolong your suffering for money.

 

[disabledandhopeless]

Definitely no.

 

[SpottedPanda]

As a person who's been sectioned multiple times, I think it's justified when yu look at the criteria. They section anyone deemed to be a danger to themselves or others. A serious suicide attempt is a clear danger to yourself. Whether it'll make a difference or not, or feel like it's helping is another issue

 

[autumnal]

Let's say I fail at my attempt and I'll be put in a mental hospital. Is that fair? Since I decided to take my own life, but can't do it.

I want to get some different opinions on that topic. What do you think?

This is always going to be the kind of question that generates very passionate and largely one-sided answers from this kind of forum. That's not to say these answers aren't valid, but it would be naive to expect them to represent a broad societal range of opinions. It's also the kind of question where anyone who expresses a dissenting answer is fairly likely to receive a large amount of abuse. Kind of like going to a vegan forum and asking whether it is morally right to eat meat.

One thing I will comment on is the concept of 'fair'. To my mind it isn't really the right term, and probably inherently reflects the one-sidedness of the views here. 'Fair' is typically used in describing notions of justice, like 'Is it fair to send me to prison for a crime?'. Although suicidal individuals may well regard involuntary hospitalisation as motivated by punishment or stigma, this view is incorrect. Involuntary hospitalisation is intended as a treatment, albeit a last-ditch and somewhat blunt instrument one. So a better question might be 'Is that helpful?'. i.e. You fail at your attempt and are put in a mental hospital. Is that helpful? To this question, the answer is probably going to be 'sometimes'. Some people are helped by involuntary hospitalisation, others aren't. Like anything, some hospitals are good and others are less so.

The important thing to bear in mind is that you generally won't know whether something is helpful until after you have tried it. So those who have been involuntarily hospitalised, discover it didn't help their condition, and then act resentful afterwards are talking from the benefit of a hindsight which simply wasn't available to clinicians at the time of sectioning, who made their best assessments in the circumstances. Additionally, involuntary hospitalisation doesn't generally claim to do anything more than prevent a person from harming themselves or others during the duration of the stay. So on that most basic of criteria, it has a very high success rate.

As a person who's been sectioned multiple times, I think it's justified when yu look at the criteria. They section anyone deemed to be a danger to themselves or others. A serious suicide attempt is a clear danger to yourself. Whether it'll make a difference or not, or feel like it's helping is another issue

It's very positive that as someone who has been sectioned, you can see the objectives behind this decision despite having probably been against it or at best ambivalent at the time.

 

[KuRsAnI]

I fucking hate psychiatric hospitals. They give you nothing to do for WEEKS!!! If they had internet it wouldn't be so bad, but they force you to walk in corridors for very long hours with nothing else to do.

 

[noaccount]

I_D they lock people up for the same thing in the U.S.

Sometimes being one-sided is correct actually.

There are many things that can be done to people against their will.

Helping is simply not one of them.

 

[GoBack]

I fucking hate psychiatric hospitals. They give you nothing to do for WEEKS!!! If they had internet it wouldn't be so bad, but they force you to walk in corridors for very long hours with nothing else to do.
[/QUOTE

Oh god , the walking. I've done miles in them places, come out more wrecked than when I went in

 

[Walilamdzi]

As a person who's been sectioned multiple times, I think it's justified when yu look at the criteria. They section anyone deemed to be a danger to themselves or others. A serious suicide attempt is a clear danger to yourself. Whether it'll make a difference or not, or feel like it's helping is another issue

I don't see how people don't get sectioned either, I've been sectioned 5 times and wasn't even really presenting as that unwell...

 

[Cosmiq]

I think it should be an option, but I don't think it should be against their own will. I'm mostly thinking about times when people have been talked down, rather than forcibly taken down. It can be a genuine cry for help for some people, but it doesn't mean that every attempt is a cry for help and that some people aren't determined to end their own life. Also, it's easy to find that in America at least, people are at their highest risk right after being released from hospitalization.

 

[SerialFailer]

It's awful, and it's expensive. Free ones are the very definition of torture and living hell, and they're even worse than most prisons.
If they weren't so shit I'd be all for them, but in my opinion people come off worse than when they got in there.

Maybe it's actually intentional for them to be a place to break people down, so they get easier to "fix" and fit into a new mould from the mess they often become after they're thrown there.

 

[SpottedPanda]

I don't see how people don't get sectioned either, I've been sectioned 5 times and wasn't even really presenting as that unwell...

When I've been sectioned, one time was a knife incident. I went running out of the house with a knife. The second time I headbutted a police officer, unintentional on my part, and the third time I was posting horrible things on social media publicly.

I'm not a total nutter, by the way, I'm completely normal and civilised 90% of the time, except in extremes of psychosis, but I've never been sectioned for suicidal thoughts or behaviour. I tend to play my cards close to my chest when it comes to ending my life. I wouldn't have the courage to do something painful, and a 'cry for help' attempt isn't even on my radar.

My psychiatric worker knows I research and plan suicide, but how many people are there doing that? I always present in a rational and calm manner, even when I'm going balls to the wall nuts. I suppose the powers that be make a judgement call based on what's already happened with regards to self harm.

It's very positive that as someone who has been sectioned, you can see the objectives behind this decision despite having probably been against it or at best ambivalent at the time.

I hated being sectioned, furiously and vehemently, in around 2012, and even in 2000, in my younger years. But in 2014 something changed. I preferred the locked walls and constant supervision than the terrifying insane outside world. My perspective changed from there. I was sectioned in 2018 but because of my previous experience I saw it as a safe haven. I'd almost learned to enjoy it in there, idolise it, after becoming institutionalised by getting used to the lifestyle.

As soon as meds kick in and with hindsight, you begin to see a glimmer of sense in the actions of those sectioning you.

After all, it'd be an unjust world and not a fair world if those with power, those who are organised, let people come to harm, whether it be by their own hand or the hand of another who was unhinged in some way. I think you'd have to be hard pressed to argue against the will to keep others safe, even if you feel personally wronged in some way by essentially being forced to stay in what is practically a soft jail.

 

[noaccount]

Spotted Panda, do you not understand that this is a pro-choice site?

 

[SpottedPanda]

Spotted Panda, do you not understand that this is a pro-choice site?

I do. Why?

 

[intheweeds]

I think it is justified. If someone is willing to harm themselves they may be willing to harm others and need to be monitored.
I KNOW that's not the case for most people, but those people do exist.

I've been admitted 3 times in my life and completely understood why they admitted me every single time nor was I ever angry or bitter about it.

 

[SpottedPanda]

Spotted Panda, do you not understand that this is a pro-choice site?

To elaborate. I'm very pro choice, but that doesn't mean that all people are, or that we don't live in a society that has rules. It's a moral duty to try and save a life. That's why I'm being very cautious about who I tell and how I go about it.

That's not to mention that a lot of people trying to harm themselves are mentally unstable, and deemed unfit to make decisions about life or death. I applaud those who are for saving others, even if I personally choose to not adhere to their ground principles.

Taking ones life must be done of free will, but I don't hold those who try to save lives in contempt.

 

[autumnal]

I think it should be an option, but I don't think it should be against their own will. I'm mostly thinking about times when people have been talked down, rather than forcibly taken down. It can be a genuine cry for help for some people, but it doesn't mean that every attempt is a cry for help and that some people aren't determined to end their own life. Also, it's easy to find that in America at least, people are at their highest risk right after being released from hospitalization.

I'm not sure if I'm interpreting your post correctly, but the fact that people are at their highest risk of suicide after being released from psychiatric hospital is not a logical reason against hospitalizing them in the first place. Instead, it is one of several things: a sign that they have been released too early (which is sometimes a sad reality of most public mental health systems which have bed shortages), a sign that they need better monitoring and support on discharge (again a public system resource shortcoming), or a sign that their mental health condition (or rational resolve to commit suicide) was so severe that it could never have been prevented anywhere except in a hospital setting.

 

[Cosmiq]

I'm not sure if I'm interpreting your post correctly, but the fact that people are at their highest risk of suicide after being released from psychiatric hospital is not a logical reason against hospitalizing them in the first place. Instead, it is one of several things: a sign that they have been released too early (which is sometimes a sad reality of most public mental health systems which have bed shortages), a sign that they need better monitoring and support on discharge (again a public system resource shortcoming), or a sign that their mental health condition (or rational resolve to commit suicide) was so severe that it could never have been prevented anywhere except in a hospital setting.

That statement was mostly in regards to my own experience. Being involuntarily committed traumatized me, jumpstarted my self-isolation, and the idea that I could only go on if I played a part and pretended to be a certain way because now I was being monitored. I still struggle with the fact that I was committed despite not actively trying to hatch a plan. So from my experience, having someone committed and not letting them have a choice in the matter could indeed push someone to edge when they might not have been that close to hitting rock bottom.
It makes it so their stay feels more like low-level prison and punishment than any type of treatment. You can't force someone to get mental health treatment and expect them to get better, they have to be willing to participate on some level.
Involuntary hospitalization is supposed to be some kind last resort, but for many, it's not. And most people would rather say "It's better to be safe than sorry..." what sorry for putting them an experience that may do more harm than good?

 

[Deleted member 17331]

That statement was mostly in regards to my own experience. Being involuntarily committed traumatized me, jumpstarted my self-isolation, and the idea that I could only go on if I played a part and pretended to be a certain way because now I was being monitored. I still struggle with the fact that I was committed despite not actively trying to hatch a plan. So from my experience, having someone committed and not letting them have a choice in the matter could indeed push someone to edge when they might not have been that close to hitting rock bottom.
It makes it so their stay feels more like low-level prison and punishment than any type of treatment. You can't force someone to get mental health treatment and expect them to get better, they have to be willing to participate on some level.
Involuntary hospitalization is supposed to be some kind last resort, but for many, it's not. And most people would rather say "It's better to be safe than sorry..." what sorry for putting them an experience that may do more harm than good?

Your post reminded me of many of my previous experiences in psychiatric hospitals. Some of the times when I was hospitalized, I can remember the neglect and scarcity that I went through in these hospitals, still against my will. In my country's public wards there is no order, all types of patients are together in the same place (violent, elderly, addicted, bipolar, men and women ...), and this ends up being traumatic and uncomfortable for some patients. What disturbed me in this place was how cruel some nurses were, they could do many things, since the place is rarely monitored. I witnessed physical and verbal assaults by the nurses, and if you didn't agree with their rules, you would get an injection of haldol in the ass and quickly fall asleep. The maximum stay in public wards lasts up to 15 days, due to lack of space for new patients. So, they don't care if you recovered or not. In fact, they throw you out, just with a prescription in your hands.

In short, I left in this place more fragile, with horrible images in my head.

I believe that many of the psychiatric clinics do not really want to help you, but to turn you into an obedient dog to return to being a slave for the rest of your life.

 

[Justinian]

I have not been hospitalised nor have I ever taken medications, but this is what I feel about them. I would love if anyone with experience can enlighten me on this. I'm just talking about antidepressants here.

Suppose one is suffering from depression and decides to take meds. How exactly will his/her mood change? Fake happiness? Emptiness? How does it feel like?

And more importantly, I suppose even if these meds do create fake feelings, it can never change your logical reasoning, such as being a slave of the system, antinatalism etc, so it can never make someone experience genuine happiness.

 

[BridgeJumper]

I come from a country with exceptionally good resources for people who are deemed mental (kill me:D)
They tend to hospitalize you immediately after an attempt, or as soon as you are medically stable, and they can keep you there indefinitely or until you get better, which is usually more than a month. And you cant get out, because in polish law trying to kill yourself is 'being a danger to yourself and / or others'. So the only thing you can do is refuse to sign the detainment papers, get a good lawyer and try to prove youre undeservedly locked up, which doesnt work 90% of the time.
I was hospitalized countless times before I figured out how to try to ctb secretly and not get caught. I wish I lived in some place where they dont care enough to try to 'fix' me

Its fair enough to section people who are legitimately a danger to themselves and others. Psychotic, derailed. But suicide should be my own decision, because Im capable of understanding that I will die and Im not physically hurting anyone by ending my existence!

 

[Walilamdzi]

That statement was mostly in regards to my own experience. Being involuntarily committed traumatized me, jumpstarted my self-isolation, and the idea that I could only go on if I played a part and pretended to be a certain way because now I was being monitored. I still struggle with the fact that I was committed despite not actively trying to hatch a plan. So from my experience, having someone committed and not letting them have a choice in the matter could indeed push someone to edge when they might not have been that close to hitting rock bottom.
It makes it so their stay feels more like low-level prison and punishment than any type of treatment. You can't force someone to get mental health treatment and expect them to get better, they have to be willing to participate on some level.
Involuntary hospitalization is supposed to be some kind last resort, but for many, it's not. And most people would rather say "It's better to be safe than sorry..." what sorry for putting them an experience that may do more harm than good?

I agree, my experience is that I am worse because the hospital was the MOST traumatic environment imaginable. It was absolutely awful.

 

[Marktheghost]

Definitely not.

 

[madbananas]

Unless you live in the UK, they don't tend to hospitalise even after an attempt!

Even in the UK, if you have had multiple attempts which they themselves deem "superficial" or supposedly "not serious" (No matter the amount of distress experienced) and/or you have the diagnosis of EUPD/BPD, then they will avoid hospitalisation as much as possible. I've overdosed before which resulted in me being on a drip overnight in the general hospital and even then I didn't get hospitalised, they just sent me home and told me to book an appointment with the doctor.
I also tried to hang myself where I was interrupted by my mum and even then I wasn't hospitalised.
Obviously this is in my specific area of the UK and can't speak for the rest though.

And the one time I was in hospital (Voluntarily because they thought I might be bipolar and tried me on lithium), all they did was basically babysit me till I'd calmed down (sorry, I mean sedated lol) after all the medication, offerEd a group activity here and there, and then left me sitting in my dorm with the other patients (The majority of the time). The other patients were the best experience of the hospital for me, and therefore i am actually glad i went there.

 

[mschokesond]

I've been in a hospital for suicide attempts 4 times and i always got out as soon as i was physically stable.

 

[a.n.kirillov]

Depends on your views. Personally, I would not hold a person in a hospital against their will, as long as they are not in the midst of a psychotic episode. Maybe I would hold them for a day or two and talk to them ... inquire whether they have thought this through, how long they have had this wish to die, whether they had any previous attempts and so on. But ultimately, if they didn't want to stay at a psych ward, I would have to let them go.
.
This is merely subjective though. Different people have different ideas about what is right and wrong or justifiable
.
The place I would hold them in for 24 to 48 hours would be more like a hostel though. A place to crash and calm down, with good food, a swimming pool, a park, etc and no forced treatments or medications. It would be made clear to them that no matter what, they can leave after 48 hours and don't have to talk to anyone, or they can stay longer. Maybe you could add a farm and some places where they could work for a few months to get back on their feet.
.
There would be a psychiatrist, but he would be subordinate to the counsellors. There would be long term residents that would pay special attention to the newcomers, etc ...

It's really not that hard to think of something better than the current system.