inert gas point of no return?

[bov]

At what point can you not change your mind? Can severe brain damage occur prior to blackout?

 

[Kruger]

I would say the point where you fall unconscious, but I'm no expert

 

[StuFin]

I think you're out cold in 3 or 4 deep breaths so 15 to 30 seconds. Assuming you've got it all set up properly then it's a given that you'll ctb.

Inert gas would be my preferred choice if I could work out how to do it properly.

 

[bov]

I think you're out cold in 3 or 4 deep breaths so 15 to 30 seconds. Assuming you've got it all set up properly then it's a given that you'll ctb.

Inert gas would be my preferred choice if I could work out how to do it properly.

Do you consider it that complicated?

 

[Aap]

No to brain damage before blacking out.

 

[yetme]

I think you're out cold in 3 or 4 deep breaths so 15 to 30 seconds. Assuming you've got it all set up properly then it's a given that you'll ctb.

Inert gas would be my preferred choice if I could work out how to do it properly.

I don't get why you should be out in 30 seconds if I can hold my breath for 4,5 mins

 

[bov]

I don't get why you should be out in 30 seconds if I can hold my breath for 4,5 mins

There's a big difference between breath-holding and inhaling zero oxygen

 

[Ghost2211]

If you are still conscious you are not sustaining brain damage. Brain damages from lack of oxygen to the brain, which would cause loss of consciousness. The point of no return his loss of consciousness basically.

 

[Greenberg]

At what point can you not change your mind? Can severe brain damage occur prior to blackout?

You can change your mind anytime prior to blacking out. There will be no brain damage. However, note that your blackout will be very sudden without warning. My guess it will occur between your second and third breath; at the latest, your third breath.

 

[mahakaliSS_MahaDurga]

I think you're out cold in 3 or 4 deep breaths so 15 to 30 seconds. Assuming you've got it all set up properly then it's a given that you'll ctb.

Inert gas would be my preferred choice if I could work out how to do it properly.

It seems like a very complicated method indeed.

 

[Spitfire]

I don't get why you should be out in 30 seconds if I can hold my breath for 4,5 mins

Suddenly breathing pure inert gas causes oxygen levels in the blood to fall precipitously.

It is the difference of having practically zero oxygen available in the circulating blood.. versus having a less precipitous slowing down of the available circulating oxygen, the way in which it happens when a person holds their breath.

 

[bov]

You can change your mind anytime prior to blacking out. There will be no brain damage. However, note that your blackout will be very sudden without warning. My guess it will occur between your second and third breath; at the latest, your third breath.

That's a relief. I always figured the most terrifying aspect would be the blackout "process."

 

[Spitfire]

That's a relief. I always figured the most terrifying aspect would be the blackout "process."

20+ years ago when I was a teen I inhaled 3-4 breaths (no more...) of pure helium from a large green helium tank that my friends stole.

It was instantaneous unconsciousness. I dropped to the ground dead to the world without knowing it happened until after I came back to...

 

[omoidarui]

Can severe brain damage occur prior to blackout?

Not prior to blackout, but the possibility of brain damage exists if you don't have enough inert gas to complete the attempt during unconsciousness

 

[Spitfire]

Not prior to blackout, but the possibility of brain damage exists if you don't have enough inert gas to complete the attempt during unconsciousness

According to OSHA:

Victims wearing respirators connected to inert gas lines (nitrogen) are in a zero percent oxygen atmosphere, and unconsciousness can occur in about 12 seconds and death in a matter of minutes.

7 minutes of total oxygen deprivation causes death of the brainstem.

 

[omoidarui]

7 minutes of total oxygen deprivation causes death of the brainstem.

@TiredHorse recommends 40 minutes (which is also in the literature) of inert gas flow to be on the "safe" side, so depending on the size of the tank, worth mentioning a flow metre may be necessary for this method too

 

[bov]

@TiredHorse recommends 40 minutes (which is also in the literature) of inert gas flow to be on the "safe" side, so depending on the size of the tank, worth mentioning a flow metre may be necessary for this method too

I think a flowmeter is mandatory.

 

[Gnip]

Derek Humphry has stated that four to five good gulps of pure inert gas should be sufficient to get the job done.

 

[Aap]

No clue who he is, but if he says 4 "gulps" of nitrogen results in death, you should not listen to anything he has to say on the subject.

 

[omoidarui]

I think a flowmeter is mandatory.

Depends which book you read because I've read if you're not handy with them they can introduce leaks in the setup, and a big tank should dispense for more than the minimum time anyway.

I agree though they could/should be used for that extra layer of precaution

 

[Aap]

It would be absolutely ridiculous and potentially dangerous to even consider using a "big tank" without a flowmeter. These don't introduce points of failure, they are absolutely essential

 

[omoidarui]

Ideally, the pressure of the helium tank should be tested with a pressure gauge. Most tanks are set to a working pressure of about 260 psi (pounds per square inch). Some of our informants have said it is also a good idea (but not necessary) to attach a flow meter to the tube coming from the tank, set to allow a gas flow of 10 liters per minute. wozz does not recommend this unless one is quite handy with such equipment. Fewer pieces of equipment means fewer connections, and less chance for leaking connections. A large (8.9 cu. ft.) tank set to a slow flow of helium into a plastic bag secured around one's neck will last at least 30 minutes before the tank is empty.

Resources can differ so ultimately we need to draw from multiple when deciding our method, but postings on this forum can potentially be hearsay so don't have as much weight as a resource as PPH and other literature.

I agree it's a good idea to use a flow meter based on everything I've read, though.

 

[bov]

No clue who he is, but if he says 4 "gulps" of nitrogen results in death, you should not listen to anything he has to say on the subject.

He's maybe the most outspoken advocate for legal assisted suicide, which is unfortunate.

 

[Aap]

If that is the case, I would probably look for other sources than him on exit bags. It is such an easily disprovable claim, it is silly to make.

 

[StuFin]

Do you consider it that complicated?

It's getting the regulator and etc that's the problem, and making sure the bag is right. I think the diving mask is better but that's even more complicated. And expensive.

 

[Viro_Major]

Brain damage is likely to happen if you're saved or an accident happens during the last 1-2 minutes before death, after unconsciousness. At least that's what reports of Helium exits led by Dignitas in Switzerland commented on

 

[LostInSociety]

I see a lot of people want to try this method using a bag with rubber bands. I would suggest using a gas mask that is made of silicon/rubber with a one way air valve out they are not that expensive. All u will need is some electrical tape or duct tape then u drill/punch a hole true the filter insert nozzle from gas bottle and tape that filter shut with gas pyp still inserted. Gas flow will have to be set very low but at least these masks sit well to any shape face as soon as the gas runs out the mask will cut off any air flow as the filter is blocked and the air valve on top is only to let air out. The mask has good stretch bands to hold it firmly on your face and they are adjustable to any size head. This solution will not only keep the gas flowing for the entirety of your gas bottle it will stay firmly on your face and will not allow air to vent in. I myself have done something similar to the mask but my use was to smoke weed. You could probably improve on this solution but I think it will probably work.

 

[yetme]

Ive seen those in pharmacies. They started selling them after rhe pandemic

 

[Raminiki]

According to OSHA:

Victims wearing respirators connected to inert gas lines (nitrogen) are in a zero percent oxygen atmosphere, and unconsciousness can occur in about 12 seconds and death in a matter of minutes.

7 minutes of total oxygen deprivation causes death of the brainstem.

I have a tank I've calculated to flow for 15 mins, can't get a larger one. Do you think it would be suitable? I only held off as a precaution that I'd sustain brain damage but not die. I've got all the SN paraphernalia as a double whammy and think I can work it. If one doesn't do it, the other should as long as I can orchestrate it all.

 

[Greenberg]

I see a lot of people want to try this method using a bag with rubber bands. I would suggest using a gas mask that is made of silicon/rubber with a one way air valve out they are not that expensive. All u will need is some electrical tape or duct tape then u drill/punch a hole true the filter insert nozzle from gas bottle and tape that filter shut with gas pyp still inserted. Gas flow will have to be set very low but at least these masks sit well to any shape face as soon as the gas runs out the mask will cut off any air flow as the filter is blocked and the air valve on top is only to let air out. The mask has good stretch bands to hold it firmly on your face and they are adjustable to any size head. This solution will not only keep the gas flowing for the entirety of your gas bottle it will stay firmly on your face and will not allow air to vent in. I myself have done something similar to the mask but my use was to smoke weed. You could probably improve on this solution but I think it will probably work.
View attachment 51530

From what I can gather, you are trying to create a rudimentary demand valve from a respiratory mask.

I applaud you for your ingenuity; however, I foresee an issue with your design.

The key issue here is (inert) gas flow. At a low rate, there would be insufficient gas to result in immediate hypoxia. What would probably result is either suffocation or air leakage into the mask due to the partial vacuum created via inhalation.

Best regards!