In regards to limits and thresholds of pain

[TAW122]

Some of you may have known this YouTuber by the name of Eye Doubt It, who had a video about how suicide prevention is evil and wicked. He has another video, which talks about the limits of pain that one can take. I find it really insightful and really agrees with my sentiments in regards to suicide and how much pain one can or is willing to take. While it's true that mental pain is harder to measure than physical pain since it isn't easily measurable or observable (unlike a physical impairment or suffering), it doesn't make it invalid. Many people seem to ignore that mental and psychological pain is not as important and worse yet, they conflate it as irrationality or some sort of illness that can be treated. Sometimes, psychological pain just can't be relieved (at least not in the long term) and death is a way out in certain situations. Sure, the bar for determining mental pain is higher due to it being harder and more obscure to measure, but there should still be a limit to how much suffering one is willing to take and a process that allows someone to check out for long term mental and psychological suffering. Personally, I don't think anyone should be gate-keeping and that the final decision should ultimately be on the patient, the individual who decides when he/she has HAD enough of living. There should only be criteria to prevent abuse, misuse, impulsive decisions, and/or decisions made without careful consideration. If someone has made their decision, evaluated all the possibilities and consequences of their action (permanent decision), exhausted all other options, pondered through the decision over an extended amount of time, is making the decision on his/her own free will (without coercion, bullying, or misinformation), and more, then he/she should absolutely be given the green light to go through.

He also mentioned that there are certain states (he claimed 8 states, but I think it's 10, if you include Washington D.C., the capitol of the US) that allows death with dignity laws. Sadly DWD laws only apply to the terminally ill and even then, it is still very hard to get, even harder than the assisted suicide laws in Netherlands or Belgium. Perhaps someday the US would have more states that allow death with dignity laws and then eventually extend that to chronic, long term, psychological and physical suffering. In my opinion, while I would love to see that, the best scenario I can see for the US is that if it does come, it may only come decades later (like 20-30 years), which would be much later in my lifetime, while the worst case is that the laws stay roughly the same as they are or revert back to the older days where euthanasia is illegal. If the latter were to happen, then it is one more incentive for me to CTB before I lose my capacity and ability to do so. On a tangential point, one of the most ironic things about society is that they claim that anyone who wishes to suicide or end their own lives is irrational and doesn't have the capacity to make that decision, yet when said person becomes disabled enough that they are "physically" or otherwise unable to make their decision, they would mock at said person for lacking the "physical" capacity to be able to check out. How ironic and sickening.

Let me know what you think about the video.

 

[TAW122]

Originally I made this topic to discuss about limits and what not, are in responses to an old sayings of "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.", "you are really strong, keep going.", "don't give up, you can do this!", etc. which are cliche adages that people try to push onto others. Just because that one thing doesn't push someone over the edge (for that person) doesn't mean the next one wouldn't.

Then the worst part is when you bring up suffering and limits, people get offended or throw yet another platitude, "You put limits on yourself!", or similar inane statements. It's as if they are guilt tripping you to keep going until you finally snap, then when you do, they blame you for being "weak", "selfish", or any other stupid label or insult they decide to throw at you. People overestimate (and sometimes, take for granted) the amount of tolerance and just how much punishment one can take before one gives way. Limits are different for everyone and nothing is infinite in this world. That is a fact, not an opinion.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Thank you for the post, it was really helpful.

For me, the hardest part is dealing with the pain others will feel and the responsibilities they will have to manage in dealing with the practicalities afterward. Your post helped me to see that there is a tipping point when the personal pain is unmanageable and irreversible, so all I can do is make the post-ctb tasks for others as easy as possible, such as by leaving instructions.

Mental health laws are inherently flawed and controlling. The choice to ctb is often a very rational response. There are often worse alternatives, such as homelessness, being caught in an abusive system of social services, being forced on meds, and in general being dependent upon those who will abuse and act in their own or a system's best interests, not those of the person in ctb-inducing circumstances.

 

[Throwmyselfaway]

I have a high pain tolerance. Until I'm severely dehydrated and they have to put in an iv and I scream. Happened the other day. I also sh and I barely feel that anymore.

 

[BabyYoda]

I seriously used to feel bad if other people were better at dealing with heartbreak and other similar situations which could be band aided with so called self love. It wasn't the case for me and I thought it was because I wasn't trying hard enough. While I've skipped some classes and fed myself some good food (which is my definition of self-love) it did not take away the problem completely. I was really slow in recovering because I wasn't "allowed" to CTB.

Now I feel better because I learned to accept that whatever works for people may not work for me, and I have my limits.

 

[BPD Barbie]

I have long since given up trying to explain how much mental pain I am in daily to people. Unless they've suffered the same, they cant begin to understand. The closest thing I can get to them feeling it, is to say its how it feels to lose a loved one. I think if you have mental illness though, your mental pain tolerance is much much higer as you live with it daily. There is a line in a song that goes 'the damaged become dangerous becuase they know how to survive'.

 

[LegaliseIt!]

I have long since given up trying to explain how much mental pain I am in daily to people. Unless they've suffered the same, they cant begin to understand. The closest thing I can get to them feeling it, is to say its how it feels to lose a loved one. I think if you have mental illness though, your mental pain tolerance is much much higer as you live with it daily. There is a line in a song that goes 'the damaged become dangerous becuase they know how to survive'.

You've described explaining it to others very eloquently.
In my family of origin, mental pain simply was denied and "encapsulated" like an old TB infection. Even grief after a tragic loss. Of course, it would come out in all kinds of neurotic ways. If you have a whole society of these "strong, silent, stoic types" setting mental health policy, you end up with the barbaric medieval laws that we currently have. And we are considered the "sick" ones?

 

[TAW122]

@GoodPersonEffed Great post. Yes, making things easier post-ctb is something that is very considerate (for the bereaved, survivors, and the living), even if it isn't required. I commend your kindness and consideration for others. As for mental health laws, yes I agree 100% that they are very flawed and very controlling, and until they change (which I don't see anytime soon), things will continue to get worse, not better. Most people on here know how flawed the mental health system is and also when it comes to harm, risk, and suicidality, most of us know that suicide can be a rational response to the mad, cruel world. I also agree with you that there are much worse fates than death, such as homelessness (which leads to a horrible life, earlier death due to elements, illnesses, violence, etc.), being crippled and having to have around the clock care, living a broken life for a long period of time, etc.

@Throwmyselfaway I'm sorry to hear that, I hope things improve for you and that you find peace in whatever decision you choose.

@BabyYoda That is a good realization and yes, most of what 'works' for other people just don't work for me. I'm too unique in the situation where I think and live so differently that it is alien to most people, so their advice and their ways just don't work. What is more frustrating is that when it doesn't work for me, people get mad at me and blame me for not trying (or trying hard enough - according to them), or for just refusing to 'get better'. I had in a sense just resigned myself to what I am and just decided that they can't be arsed to change or accommodate me.

@BPD Barbie Yes, that is very true. I feel like the majority of people who I interact with IRL don't really know the situation and the ones that do (or claim to know), oftenly are misguided and fail to relate on so many levels. They claim they really care and want to help, but only exacerbate the situation more. I'm mostly resentful of the people who claim to 'help' but oftenly just make things worse due to their misguided understanding of Aspergers and my struggles. It doesn't help and I feel more alienated. Certain groups afaik are mostly VS'ers (Virtue Signalers) meaning that they want to show their 'care' for certain groups of people, and not sound bad, but really all in all, I could feel that they don't really give a real shit about deeper issues despite what they claim to represent or represent. Ultimately, we are alone in this world and we could only cope until our copes run out, then we are left with nothing but CTB.

@LegaliseIt! That's awful. As far as having mental health policy, I don't think the "strong, silent, stoic types" should set up mental health policy as their views are not in line with the ones that are suffering immensely and yes, they would indeed go in the wrong direction (aka barbaric medieval laws regarding mental health). Instead, we need people who understand suffering and can relate to set up law and what not to ensure that we don't get these barbaric laws.