Discussion If you’re serious, act like you’re planning a murder.

[sugarb]

(Please keep in mind that this refers only to people who are dead-set on CTB. If you're even the slightest bit unsure, do not listen to this advice.)

Suicide is treated as a crime akin to homicide by both the law and by pro-lifers, but despite the enormous stigma and even outright incarceration associated with a failed attempt, many suicidal people both here and elsewhere expect a peaceful path to nonexistence.

While there's nothing wrong with seeking comfort in the time leading up to the end or simply wanting to be happy, the bottom line is this:

The world we are trying to escape views suicide as self-homicide, so to get what you want under these circumstances, you need to plot a first-degree murder of the self. Adopting this mindset brings CTB that much closer.

As for what this mindset entails-

- Treat your victim as an object.

This helps with SI.

Dehumanize yourself. Disregard how their (your) family will mourn, how much it will hurt them. Disregard their future. Disassociate, if possible.

- Do not make any moves until the perfect moment.

If you were planning a murder, would it be smarter to slip a few pills into their drink on impulse or wait a year, buy a more lethal implement like a gun, and do it somewhere isolated?

Obviously the latter. You might only get one shot, so don't waste it.

- Keep up appearances.

If loved ones and doctors suspect something's up, they will question you. If something seems off, or they find evidence, they'll go further. This is inconvenient.

- Do not confide in others.

Specifically IRL, secrecy is of the utmost importance. Your friends, family, therapist, etc (if applicable) can and will rat you out, resulting in a mental hospital stay. It can be very hard at times but it's often necessary.

—

tl;dr- Suicide is stigmatized and punished to the point of it being treated almost like murder. Under these circumstances, the most logical thing to do is act as if you're actually committing a murder. Be secretive, plan carefully, don't do anything impulsive, dehumanize the target, wait for the right moment.

Thoughts?

 

[Apathy79]

Good plan if you're accustomed to planning murders. Especially with proven success. Skills should translate.

As a mental framing device, I probably wouldn't have even thought of half the things you did there in relation to planning a murder, but they all come up thinking about suicide. So I'm not sure I'd use it. But it does make sense the way you've laid it out.

 

[Opt7955]

I can only speak for myself here, but the part about dehumanising myself doesn't sit right with me.

I think the part about planning and secrecy absolutely make sense for people living in countries where it's illegal, and for people living in countries where's it's so heavily stigmatised (which is pretty much everywhere!)

But I also don't buy into the narrative that CTB is murder, and don't want to pretend that it is, even if people around me are acting like it is.

I've never had any plans to murder anyone and don't ever intend to, but if I did, I also wouldn't want to dehumanise them. If that was what it took to kill them, then maybe I shouldn't be killing them. And for myself, if/when I decide to CTB, it'll be to end the pain and suffering of life, and I don't wanna add to that by treating myself like an object.

I also think I'm in a fortunate place where I've spoken to people IRL who agree with assisted suicide as a concept. Some of which I feel able to talk to about the desire, or any plans to, CTB. One of my friends asked me to be their back-up for helping them CTB when they get older.

 

[Blue Elephant]

I don't agree with the dehumanization point either but other then that I'm already working on all the other points. I agree with this.

 

[sugarb]

I can only speak for myself here, but the part about dehumanising myself doesn't sit right with me.

I think the part about planning and secrecy absolutely make sense for people living in countries where it's illegal, and for people living in countries where's it's so heavily stigmatised (which is pretty much everywhere!)

But I also don't buy into the narrative that CTB is murder, and don't want to pretend that it is, even if people around me are acting like it is.

I've never had any plans to murder anyone and don't ever intend to, but if I did, I also wouldn't want to dehumanise them. If that was what it took to kill them, then maybe I shouldn't be killing them. And for myself, if/when I decide to CTB, it'll be to end the pain and suffering of life, and I don't wanna add to that by treating myself like an object.

I also think I'm in a fortunate place where I've spoken to people IRL who agree with assisted suicide as a concept. Some of which I feel able to talk to about the desire, or any plans to, CTB. One of my friends asked me to be their back-up for helping them CTB when they get older.

I'm not buying into the narrative, either. I just found it helpful to think "CTBing is stigmatized similarly to murder, so I should take all the precautions someone who's planning that sort of crime usually takes to avoid being stopped". I understand how the metaphor could be taken as an endorsement of pro-life sentiments but I assure you it's not. The point isn't to pretend that CTB is murder, but to recognize that the aforementioned narrative is the predominant one and not acting accordingly makes CTB much more difficult.

I shouldn't have said "dehumanizing". To clarify- I meant less seeing oneself as an object and more seeing one's body as just an object; a barrier to the end goal, which is to stop breathing. "I'm going to shoot myself in the head" is much more upsetting and scary to think about in the moment than "I'm going to pull this trigger and leave this body". I don't know if there's a word for that. And I might also be saying something wrong here again

I'm glad you've found some comfort there. <3

 

[UKscotty]

Not sure what country you are from but suicide is legal in most countries and the right to die is universal.

 

[sugarb]

Not sure what country you are from but suicide is legal in most countries and the right to die is universal.

Incarceration as in involuntary hospital stay. my bad

 

[Not A Fan]

Not sure what country you are from but suicide is legal in most countries and the right to die is universal.

I once read that it is the only legal act in which it is illegal for another person to assist. But while attempted suicide is not grounds for a criminal conviction, it could very well result in involuntary incarceration.

 

[Blue Elephant]

Not sure what country you are from but suicide is legal in most countries and the right to die is universal.

This answer is incomplete. That is the official version, in truth the system and the society will do anything they can to deny your freedom of choice. In other words: they will deny you the right to die.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

(Please keep in mind that this refers only to people who are dead-set on CTB. If you're even the slightest bit unsure, do not listen to this advice.)

Suicide is treated as a crime akin to homicide by both the law and by pro-lifers, but despite the enormous stigma and even outright incarceration associated with a failed attempt, many suicidal people both here and elsewhere expect a peaceful path to nonexistence.

While there's nothing wrong with seeking comfort in the time leading up to the end or simply wanting to be happy, the bottom line is this:

The world we are trying to escape views suicide as self-homicide, so to get what you want under these circumstances, you need to plot a first-degree murder of the self. Adopting this mindset brings CTB that much closer.

As for what this mindset entails-

- Treat your victim as an object.

This helps with SI.

Dehumanize yourself. Disregard how their (your) family will mourn, how much it will hurt them. Disregard their future. Disassociate, if possible.

- Do not make any moves until the perfect moment.

If you were planning a murder, would it be smarter to slip a few pills into their drink on impulse or wait a year, buy a more lethal implement like a gun, and do it somewhere isolated?

Obviously the latter. You might only get one shot, so don't waste it.

- Keep up appearances.

If loved ones and doctors suspect something's up, they will question you. If something seems off, or they find evidence, they'll go further. This is inconvenient.

- Do not confide in others.

Specifically IRL, secrecy is of the utmost importance. Your friends, family, therapist, etc (if applicable) can and will rat you out, resulting in a mental hospital stay. It can be very hard at times but it's often necessary.

—

tl;dr- Suicide is stigmatized and punished to the point of it being treated almost like murder. Under these circumstances, the most logical thing to do is act as if you're actually committing a murder. Be secretive, plan carefully, don't do anything impulsive, dehumanize the target, wait for the right moment.

Thoughts?

I agree. Good points

 

[LifeIsBS]

wow, never thought of it like that but i think i can do it, like how we have that voice in our head that you use to "think", in my case that's me, and my target is my body and i need to escape. i think this might help me, thanks!!

 

[UKscotty]

This answer is incomplete. That is the official version, in truth the system and the society will do anything they can to deny your freedom of choice. In other words: they will deny you the right to die.

Have to just disagree I think.

To me, as long as someone doesn't tell people about them going to CTB it's quite open and accepted.

If someone tells others they are going to CTB, then people have a moral obligation to help in my view. By telling others they are asking for help. Someone serious about wanting to CTB will keep quiet.

 

[Blue Elephant]

Have to just disagree I think.

To me, as long as someone doesn't tell people about them going to CTB it's quite open and accepted.

If someone tells others they are going to CTB, then people have a moral obligation to help in my view. By telling others they are asking for help. Someone serious about wanting to CTB will keep quiet.

Yeah, you're contradicting yourself. I'm going to step away from this one.

 

[sugarb]

Have to just disagree I think.

To me, as long as someone doesn't tell people about them going to CTB it's quite open and accepted.

If someone tells others they are going to CTB, then people have a moral obligation to help in my view. By telling others they are asking for help. Someone serious about wanting to CTB will keep quiet.

"as long as someone doesn't tell people about them going to CTB it's quite open and accepted."

This is absolutely ridiculous, what are you talking about? If someone discovers you're planning CTB they aren't going to "accept" it, despite you not intentionally telling them. If I was standing on the side of the Golden Gate Bridge you can be sure passers-by wouldn't "accept" it and would likely try to talk me down or physically force me not to CTB.

"By telling others they are asking for help. Someone serious about wanting to CTB will keep quiet."

Again, ridiculous. Is each and every person on this site who's telling others they're suicidal asking for help? No, they are not. Furthermore, plenty of seriously suicidal people will confide in loved ones for comfort or simply because they want to be honest. Not everyone who's serious is quiet, though as I advised above they should try to be.

 

[UKscotty]

"as long as someone doesn't tell people about them going to CTB it's quite open and accepted."

This is absolutely ridiculous, what are you talking about? If someone discovers you're planning CTB they aren't going to "accept" it, despite you not intentionally telling them. If I was standing on the side of the Golden Gate Bridge you can be sure passers-by wouldn't "accept" it and would likely try to talk me down or physically force me not to CTB.

"By telling others they are asking for help. Someone serious about wanting to CTB will keep quiet."

Again, ridiculous. Is each and every person on this site who's telling others they're suicidal asking for help? No, they are not. Furthermore, plenty of seriously suicidal people will confide in loved ones for comfort or simply because they want to be honest. Not everyone who's serious is quiet, though as I advised above they should try to be.

Not the same being quiet on here, this is a suicide forum.

As for passers by, most would get out their phones and start yelling for them to jump. Yes one or two might talk them down, but the majority just want them to jump so they can get on with their day. People don't care if we CTB.

 

[LOVELYDARKDEEP]

The best kept secret is one that is never told.