If N is supposed to be the gold standard, why is it not used in all medically assisted deaths, such as MAID in Canada?

[dandred@]

I've been reading a lot of conflicting evidence about the supposed peacefulness of N (https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/health/2021/2/3/1_5293497.html - although this references phenobarbital, not pentobarbital) and it's got me wondering if it really is the gold standard. If so, why doesn't Canada use it with MAID? I'm scared it's not so trustworthy.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Interesting- I didn't realise they used other drugs. Regardless though- I'm not convinced nembutal is easy to get hold of either way.

 

[dandred@]

Interesting- I didn't realise they used other drugs. Regardless though- I'm not convinced nembutal is easy to get hold of either way.

That's exactly the problem - why is it not manufactured for human use? It's one thing to make it illegal, but it's another to make it accessible only for animals.

 

[Forever Sleep]

That's exactly the problem - why is it not manufactured for human use? It's one thing to make it illegal, but it's another to make it accessible only for animals.

I don't know if the stuff they use in the clinics is any different from the stuff vets use. Do you mean- why isn't it manufactured for prescription?

Even countries where it's legal to assist in a suicide- ie. knowingly provide medications that will terminate a person's life, it's still highly restricted. Partly I imagine because our governments don't want us killing ourselves. Even if we don't work and pay taxes, we consume products that pay them tax. Plus- they have the support of likely the majority of people who are pro-life. Families and especially parents- who don't want the government to allow their loved ones access to assisted suicide.

I suspect it will eventually be introduced more weadspread- although I imagine it will only be for those with terminal or chronic illness.

 

[Tears in Rain]

I've been reading a lot of conflicting evidence about the supposed peacefulness of N (https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/health/2021/2/3/1_5293497.html - although this references phenobarbital, not pentobarbital) and it's got me wondering if it really is the gold standard. If so, why doesn't Canada use it with MAID? I'm scared it's not so trustworthy.

Interesting- I didn't realise they used other drugs. Regardless though- I'm not convinced nembutal is easy to get hold of either way.

I too wasn't aware that pentobarbital wasn't used in MAID. On looking it up, it seems it isn't used due to the shortage of production and its cost. In one piece I came across from 2016, it said that the company who had the rights to sell pentobarbital in Canada were quoting $23,000 for a single dose.

For those interested, the drugs usually used in MAID(via injection) are:
- Midazolam(a sedative)
- Propofol(an anaesthetic)
- Rocuronium(a paralytic)
- Lidocaine(an analgesic)

From the piece linked above:

 

[divinemistress36]

I too wasn't aware that pentobarbital wasn't used in MAID. On looking it up, it seems it isn't used due to the shortage of production and its cost. In one piece I came across from 2016, it said that the company who had the rights to sell pentobarbital in Canada were quoting $23,000 for a single dose.

For those interested, the drugs usually used in MAID(via injection) are:
- Midazolam(a sedative)
- Propofol(an anaesthetic)
- Rocuronium(a paralytic)
- Lidocaine(an analgesic)

From the piece linked above:
View attachment 126695

Can propofol be bought over the dark web?

 

[dandred@]

I too wasn't aware that pentobarbital wasn't used in MAID. On looking it up, it seems it isn't used due to the shortage of production and its cost. In one piece I came across from 2016, it said that the company who had the rights to sell pentobarbital in Canada were quoting $23,000 for a single dose.

For those interested, the drugs usually used in MAID(via injection) are:
- Midazolam(a sedative)
- Propofol(an anaesthetic)
- Rocuronium(a paralytic)
- Lidocaine(an analgesic)

From the piece linked above:
View attachment 126695

I too wasn't aware that pentobarbital wasn't used in MAID. On looking it up, it seems it isn't used due to the shortage of production and its cost. In one piece I came across from 2016, it said that the company who had the rights to sell pentobarbital in Canada were quoting $23,000 for a single dose.

For those interested, the drugs usually used in MAID(via injection) are:
- Midazolam(a sedative)
- Propofol(an anaesthetic)
- Rocuronium(a paralytic)
- Lidocaine(an analgesic)

From the piece linked above:
View attachment 126695

Thank you for clarifying this.

 

[Tears in Rain]

Can propofol be bought over the dark web?

No idea. I don't know how easy it is to source any of the drugs I mentioned above.
I was doing a bit of searching the site earlier, and some people on this site were previously able to get it. You'll find other threads mentioning it. Might be worth PM'ing people.

 

[dandred@]

No idea. I don't know how easy it is to source any of the drugs I mentioned above.
I was doing a bit of searching the site earlier, and some people on this site were previously able to get it. You'll find other threads mentioning it. Might be worth PM'ing people.

Propofol would obviously require an injection though. Not readily accessible for many people.

 

[reborn87]

I've been reading a lot of conflicting evidence about the supposed peacefulness of N (https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/health/2021/2/3/1_5293497.html - although this references phenobarbital, not pentobarbital) and it's got me wondering if it really is the gold standard. If so, why doesn't Canada use it with MAID? I'm scared it's not so trustworthy.

Can u please dm me what n stands for im new sorry

 

[xxxbmw]

Can u please dm me what n stands for im new sorry

Nembutal

 

[Disappointered]

The drugs listed don't sound all that appealing. At one point I think they used secobarbital (sp?) along with a few other drugs and could include a strong opioid in the cocktail. I hope they haven't regressed in that regard as that would be kind of sadistic...

 

[reborn87]

Nembutal

You can't buy that anywhere. They're all scammers I found who try to sell it. Do u have a source?

 

[xxxbmw]

You can't buy that anywhere. They're all scammers I found who try to sell it. Do u have a source?

There used to be legitimate sellers the last one called himself D. They usually post the sellers email and nickname on the ppeh, and you can see people here sharing his email. I myself am waiting for another supplier but I don't know if there will be. You can if you want ask someone who is knowledgeable or ask an admin, but that's all I know, and yeah the was a thread on D the seller. Edit: you can travel to some South American countries that sell Nembutal but I believe you have to have someone with you who speaks Spanish. I would personally love to get a hold of some N, if you ever get a hold of some I'd appreciate if you'd tell me. Tc

 

[Raindancer]

The drugs listed don't sound all that appealing. At one point I think they used secobarbital (sp?) along with a few other drugs and could include a strong opioid in the cocktail. I hope they haven't regressed in that regard as that would be kind of sadistic...

That's what I was thinking. I do not believe I would choose those meds or this method using those meds.

 

[reborn87]

There used to be legitimate sellers the last one called himself D. They usually post the sellers email and nickname on the ppeh, and you can see people here sharing his email. I myself am waiting for another supplier but I don't know if there will be. You can if you want ask someone who is knowledgeable or ask an admin, but that's all I know, and yeah the was a thread on D the seller. Edit: you can travel to some South American countries that sell Nembutal but I believe you have to have someone with you who speaks Spanish. I would personally love to get a hold of some N, if you ever get a hold of some I'd appreciate if you'd tell me. Tc

They don't have it in Mexico either hard to get anywhere and scammers on internet

 

[Disappointered]

That's what I was thinking. I do not believe I would choose those meds or this method using those meds.

I guess Propofol is okay as it's used for general anesthesia in surgeries but I am certain that secobarbital and opiods were also possibilities at one point (and maybe they still are).

 

[Raindancer]

I guess Propofol is okay as it's used for general anesthesia in surgeries but I am certain that secobarbital and opiods were also possibilities at one point (and maybe they still are).

True, I wish they would add one of those as propofol is the only med that would make you not feel anything. It's also quick acting and with some of the stories about people having issues with N, it would just makes me nervous.

 

[Thanksforeverything]

The reason that a lot of medically assisted deaths don't use N is due to how difficult it is to source consistently. Pharma Manufacturers DO NOT want their product to be associated with the idea of death. And people have been actively seeking to ban the use of N for assisted dying for a while now. That's why most assisted deaths use a combination of drugs which are readily available and legal instead.

Here are a few articles:

Ruling on assisted dying drug Nembutal sets important precedent

A Victorian legal precedent of how Nembutal can be used during palliative care provides more options for doctors to help their dying patients.

theconversation.com

We don’t need greater access to Nembutal to achieve good end-of-life care

It is likely that, ironically, any legalisation of euthanasia in this country will actually hinder the care of those most in need.

theconversation.com

 

[Tears in Rain]

I guess Propofol is okay as it's used for general anesthesia in surgeries but I am certain that secobarbital and opiods were also possibilities at one point (and maybe they still are).

Secobarbital was done away with in U.S. M.A.I.D. a few years back:

 

[Thanksforeverything]

All barbiturates took a massive hit when benzodiazepines became the gold standard for depressants. That's why we need a literal cocktail of drugs these days for assisted deaths.

 

[mortuarymary]

This is really putting me off my method now.

 

[Tears in Rain]

This is really putting me off my method now.

What's your method? And why put off?

 

[mortuarymary]

What's your method? And why put off?

Assisted suicide. The more I read the more I feel I'm getting ripped off.

 

[Tears in Rain]

Assisted suicide. The more I read the more I feel I'm getting ripped off.

I don't think there's any doubt about these assisted death methods working, it's just that the likes of the DDMAPH method may take a bit longer than methods using barbiturates like pentobarbital to work.

But if you're going the Swiss route, e.g. Dignitas, they still use pentobarbital/Nembutal:

 

[Disappointered]

It's good to at least see that morphine is part of the cocktail. Truly a step back about the secobarbital though.

 

[itsover090]

Propofol is very funny, here in Brazil it is even used for endoscopies. I counted how many seconds I passed out, you just feel your head go numb and that's it... I counted, I think I passed out after 12 seconds lol... I asked the doctor if I could buy this, he asked if I wanted to end up like Michael Jackson (killed by this drug), little did he know that I really wanted it... hahahahaha