Discussion If a person calls themselves awful, should you believe them?

[Nexey]

Up until recently, I would've answered this question "no." I figured that most people who called themselves awful were just self-aware individuals that are too harsh on themselves for their flaws.

I've started to reflect on this question. I'm starting to think the opposite of what I initially thought was true. I've been coming across more and more people who will call themselves awful as a way of seeking out pity and validation but don't ever take the time to improve themselves. What's worse is that the faults they tend to fixate on are almost never the ones that are the most horrible. These individuals will instead go out of their way to ignore their most awful traits. Even when confronted when them, they'll shrug their shoulders and say "ah, well, nothing I can do about that" and never address the issue. I'm not sure what to believe anymore.

I know that "it depends." However, what would you say generally tends to be the case? Are people who call themselves awful usually telling the truth?

 

[GrumpyFrog]

Well, if you don't want to hear the whole "it depends" thing, then yes, those people are usually telling the truth. Most people who say they're awful people are awful people.
And most people who don't say it are awful people too.
There are very, very few people in the world who would either fit your idea of a good person perfectly from the get-go without any flaws, or will be willing to work on themselves and change themselves until they do. And I really feel bad for the latter, because that's a quest of futility that causes great pain and suffering in many people for no good reason, but I digress...
People are all awful in their own unique ways. They are also fascinating and beautiful if you're willing to overlook their personal brand of awfulness. That's my two cents, at least.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Well, if you don't want to hear the whole "it depends" thing, then yes, those people are usually telling the truth. Most people who say they're awful people are awful people.
And most people who don't say it are awful people too.
There are very, very few people in the world who would either fit your idea of a good person perfectly from the get-go without any flaws, or will be willing to work on themselves and change themselves until they do. And I really feel bad for the latter, because that's a quest of futility that causes great pain and suffering in many people for no good reason, but I digress...
People are all awful in their own unique ways. They are also fascinating and beautiful if you're willing to overlook their personal brand of awfulness. That's my two cents, at least.

This. Everyone is awful in some way or through some lens. There's a reason why in shows like South Park or The Good Place, very few people actually made it to Heaven. In South Park, it's only the most devout and genuine Mormons while in The Good Place, nobody has been good enough to get into Heaven for over 500 years as the world got more complex and it turned out that every human from that point on was either directly or indirectly committing a bad deed with every action they took.

That said, when I say I'm awful I realize I'm not always good at making that obvious which can cause people to doubt this. That's just more proof of how bad I am. I often unintentionally manipulate everyone into believing I'm kinder than I really am which is why I truly believe I'm awful beyond the normal scope of basic human awfulness.

 

[Fragile]

I'm in the "it depends, blah, blah, different people" group, but in general I'd say no.

At least the people I've known that say that tend to be the ones who over-analize themselves in very self destructive ways, they fixate in every single negative aspect of their lives and exaggerator the impact of their actions, and it's well known in psychology that most of us have a somewhat negative sense of self since us humans are more likely to notice the negative aspects of ourselves.

I'm sure some of them say it without making any positive improvement in their lives, and obviously everyone is a bit awful in their own way, but the fact that they can recognize this tells me that they are not as bad as they think they are, at least not like the people who are truly awful and fucked up inside.

I don't know, I always try to see the positive side in most people, and my sense of morality may be very different from theirs.

 

[Nexey]

Well, if you don't want to hear the whole "it depends" thing, then yes, those people are usually telling the truth. Most people who say they're awful people are awful people.
And most people who don't say it are awful people too.
There are very, very few people in the world who would either fit your idea of a good person perfectly from the get-go without any flaws, or will be willing to work on themselves and change themselves until they do. And I really feel bad for the latter, because that's a quest of futility that causes great pain and suffering in many people for no good reason, but I digress...
People are all awful in their own unique ways. They are also fascinating and beautiful if you're willing to overlook their personal brand of awfulness. That's my two cents, at least.

You knew I wouldn't like a "it depends" answer, so you gave me a "everyone is awful" one instead? Well, I appreciate the time and effort behind your reply, but it feels like a cop out.

I'm not looking for perfection. I'm looking for some self-reflection. "Yeah, I know I'm an awful person who is a zoophile, suicide baits women so that they sleep with me, or an individual who otherwise harms the innocent BUUUT that's not why I'm a bad!!! I'm bad because I sometimes lie!!!" I'm getting real sick of this nonsense. There are a lot of people like that EVERYWHERE, including here.

Pursuing perfection may be futile but trying to be better isn't. My God, it ought to be a basic expectation.

That said, when I say I'm awful I realize I'm not always good at making that obvious which can cause people to doubt this. That's just more proof of how bad I am. I often unintentionally manipulate everyone into believing I'm kinder than I really am which is why I truly believe I'm awful beyond the normal scope of basic human awfulness.

"I'm awful, I'm awful, I say I'm manipulative but I don't describe how... Ah, gee, I wonder why my vague claims lead to doubt?"
Maybe being a biiit more specific and working on yourself from there would help. The first step to fixing a problem is acknowledging you have one, and right now, you seem to be on step 0.5.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

"I'm awful, I'm awful, I say I'm manipulative but I don't describe how... Ah, gee, I wonder why my vague claims lead to doubt?"
Maybe being a biiit more specific and working on yourself from there would help. The first step to fixing a problem is acknowledging you have one, and right now, you seem to be on step 0.5.

Well if you think about it, most truly awful people tend to never be able to describe themselves as awful even if they can see it. I simply happen to know that I am awful and I'm willing to admit it but I also don't want to fully describe just how awful I am because I selfishly want people to still like me sometimes. I think part of said awfulness is my inability to pinpoint all the awful things I've felt and done. Just because I'm dumb enough to forget them doesn't mean they didn't happen...

And if that answer is still unsatisfactory, that's perfectly valid. I agree. Hopefully this wishy-washy kind of response alone makes me qualify as awful in some way...

 

[Nexey]

Well if you think about it, most truly awful people tend to never be able to describe themselves as awful even if they can see it. I simply happen to know that I am awful and I'm willing to admit it but I also don't want to fully describe just how awful I am because I selfishly want people to still like me sometimes. I think part of said awfulness is my inability to pinpoint all the awful things I've felt and done. Just because I'm dumb enough to forget them doesn't mean they didn't happen...

And if that answer is still unsatisfactory, that's perfectly valid. I agree. Hopefully this wishy-washy kind of response alone makes me qualify as awful in some way...

Look, I know that I'm being harsh, but I'm trying to lead you in the right direction here. One way that I'm flawed is that I'm priggish and drool over the idea of going on a moral crusade. And, frankly, I also don't know where to begin when it comes to fixing my problem, because I often don't see it as a problem at all. When am I standing up for proper morals, and when am I being a judgemental asshole? It'll probably take some time, self-reflection, and guidance from others for me to fully figure out where the line should be drawn.

See, that's the thing. I was being descriptive just now. Saying "I'm awful, because reasons," means absolutely nothing.

Also, if you want people to like you, then why are you going around and saying these vaguely negative things about yourself? Something tells me your version of "self-reflection" isn't that at all. There's something else that you're not acknowledging. What do you want? What do you expect to happen when you refer to yourself as such things? Are you prepared to have people believe you and look down on you for your own words?

"you're further proving im terrible lel." That is not the point, sir. Stop with this roundabout logic.

 

[GrumpyFrog]

You knew I wouldn't like a "it depends" answer, so you gave me a "everyone is awful" one instead? Well, I appreciate the time and effort behind your reply, but it feels like a cop out.

Well, I'm sorry. I think I see your point of view and I don't think I'd be able to give you an answer you'd like without being disingenuous. All I can say is you must have a hard time with other people and society in general and I'm sorry things are like that.

Well if you think about it, most truly awful people tend to never be able to describe themselves as awful even if they can see it. I simply happen to know that I am awful and I'm willing to admit it but I also don't want to fully describe just how awful I am because I selfishly want people to still like me sometimes. I think part of said awfulness is my inability to pinpoint all the awful things I've felt and done. Just because I'm dumb enough to forget them doesn't mean they didn't happen...

And if that answer is still unsatisfactory, that's perfectly valid. I agree. Hopefully this wishy-washy kind of response alone makes me qualify as awful in some way...

And you, my friend, do not need to self-reflect on some imaginary awfulness that you can't quite describe because it's your low self-esteem telling you you're terrible. You need to stop beating yourself up. And a hug, probably.

 

[Nexey]

Well, I'm sorry. I think I see your point of view and I don't think I'd be able to give you an answer you'd like without being disingenuous. All I can say is you must have a hard time with other people and society in general and I'm sorry things are like that.

No need to be sorry. I suppose I'm just angry. I mean, when someone tells you from the start that they're awful, only for you to not believe them, just to discover that they were telling the truth afterwards... It's a unpleasent feeling. I labeled them as a liar in my mind in order to give them benefit of the doubt. Seems a bit backwards in retrospect.

 

[GrumpyFrog]

I suppose I'm just angry. I mean, when someone tells you from the start that they're awful, only for you to not believe them, only to discover that they were telling the truth afterwards... It's a very weird feeling. I labeled them as a liar in my mind in order to give the benefit of the doubt. Seems a bit backwards in retrospect.

Oh, I can understand that very well. I can relate to this to an extent, I used to have a friend who, while never saying he is a bad person, repeatedly admitted his desire to hurt others, which I wrote off as a consequence of his painful childhood and him not being serious, until I had to learn the hard way how serious he really was. The worst part is that it feels like life is punishing you for trying to be kind and giving people the benefit of the doubt.
"People will show you who they are, but we ignore it because we want them to be who we want them to be." - I believe this is very true. Hoping others are the people you want them to be is a good thing. But when hope turns into expectations, it can leave you heartbroken.

 

[Makko]

I'd never admit "awfulness". I could be aware of it, but I'd never say it out loud. Terrible social policy. At best you'll be obnoxious and at worst you'll be believed.

 

[Nexey]

I'd never admit "awfulness". I could be aware of it, but I'd never say it out loud. Terrible social policy. At best you'll be obnoxious and at worst you'll be believed.

That's a good approach. How you should talk about yourself can be tricky at times. You're basically juggling between putting yourself in a good (or at least neutral) light while trying to maintain some sense of humbleness and self-awareness. Either way, mindlessly insulting yourself likely won't get you anywhere.

 

[Lmd]

Yeah, we're all horrible in one way or another. I'm more concerned at what levels they are or why they say it.

 

[GenesAndEnvironment]

It really depends on the context, and what the definition of awful is. Have to go case-by-case on this one.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

See, that's the thing. I was being descriptive just now. Saying "I'm awful, because reasons," means absolutely nothing.

Also, if you want people to like you, then why are you going around and saying these vaguely negative things about yourself? Something tells me your version of "self-reflection" isn't that at all. There's something else that you're not acknowledging. What do you want? What do you expect to happen when you refer to yourself as such things? Are you prepared to have people believe you and look down on you for your own words?

"you're further proving im terrible lel." That is not the point, sir. Stop with this roundabout logic.

You raise some good points. I have gone into some detail about various actual bad things I've done elsewhere which is why I lazily didn't feel like describing them again.

The very same laziness which I have stated prevents me from doing most of the really really awful stuff I genuinely want to do is also responsible for some of the bad deeds I've done. Whether out of laziness or selfishness, I've ghosted friends simply because they badmouthed my imaginary wife. I've yelled at both my sisters in a way that terrified them and it was for stupid reasons. I didn't go to either of my grandparents' funerals last year because I didn't want to have to wake up at 6 am and deal with my dad. I basically cheated my way through college and so my degree is a sham. I've been rude to people lots of times just because they were trying to be my friend. I voted for Donald Trump in both the 2016 and 2020 elections. I've blatantly walked away from people I recognize in public just because I was afraid of having to stop listening to my music. I've rejected so many people who've had crushes on me even though I constantly bitch and whine every day about how I don't have a girlfriend (though to be fair most of them were guys and I'm not gay). I became a racist (not against African Americans or Latino people so relax) just because some girl from work who showed interest in me got together with a person from said race five years ago. I genuinely wanted every member of that race to die. I've deliberately taken things off the shelf i wasn't gonna buy in stores and not put them back in the proper place. Etc etc etc. All that is only scratching the surface of what I can remember. I guarantee there's 50 times more bad stuff I've done that I can't even remember and like I said before, just because I don't remember it doesn't mean I get to be absolved of it.

I even have a frame of reference to compare to. Before the events of that girl from work five years ago, I really believed I was a good person (even though some of that stuff I mentioned before was happening before five years ago, I just was ignorant of it back then) or at least I tried to be a good person. I believed in the magic of friendship and tried my best to make everyone happy. That part was sort of retained today so that's why I contradictorily said I still want people to like me but now I don't care about anyone enough to want to make them happy because I like them. I only accommodate and act polite out of obligation or self-preservation since I'm a weak and pathetic little coward in every sense of the term. No matter how much self reflection I do my stupid mind refuses to move on from that event from years ago. I am aware of how petty this seems to the outside which just proves more of how foolishly evil I am.

Heartbreak sucks but even I am aware it doesn't justify those bad deeds I've done and the ones I wanted to do so badly. I mentioned elsewhere that I actually quite enjoy the suffering of innocents even when it's not by my hand. I also can only relate and feel bad for people who've been through similar experiences to me but unfortunately I also empathize way more with the other rotten scum like myself. Usually canceling celebrities for genuine reasons just makes me want to defend them and go to their side especially when they're genuine pieces of shit. Can you really say someone who wants to feel bad for and side with people who are alleged pedophiles, rapists, or racists deserves any sort of redemption?

I get that it sounds like I'm exaggerating, maybe you think that me knowing all this about myself is enough to see the light in me. I'm sorry to say that that light has burnt out. What you're seeing is an illusion propagated by the aforementioned self-preservation. I didn't even admit some of the even worse things I've done/thought. You see in my humble opinion, me being aware of all this hatred within me does nothing to curb it and is actually worse than just being evil. The fact that I do nothing about it is arguably even more evil than just doing evil things blissfully unaware that I'm a terrible person (which I've also been guilty of). Silence is violence, as they say on social media campaigns.

I've tried, really tried to look in the mirror and see someone that isn't a horrible monster both on the outside and inside. It's just not gonna happen, at least not unless someone I'm attracted to gets me to consider otherwise. That's the other horrible thing about me, I think way too much with my base instincts. I'm that guy who will reject hanging out with my close friends if there's no girls invited. My lizard brain just wants a mate and it will hold the rest of my body hostage until I get to spread the cancer that is my dna out into the world all the while not giving a damn who else cares about my death. I'm going to CTB and knowingly leave behind close friends who are dumb enough to care about me, my mom, and two younger adult sisters who rely on me and I don't even care about all that! I only care about the fact that I don't care but that's not enough to make me actually care! So stupid, but that's me in a nutshell.

Ugh. If somehow anyone reading this still pities me then I have ultimately failed because my goal was to genuinely spell out why I'm truly awful. Just because I am sympathetic to the plights of most people on here and can make long-winded, pseudo-intellectual walls of text doesn't mean I deserve salvation. My articulate sentences are merely a ruse, a tool I've unwittingly wielded to make people care. My CTB is probably the most noble thing I can do because it will rid the world of the evil that is myself once and for all because I don't see myself ever finding the motivation it will take to even squeeze a drop of effort into genuine self-improvement and atonement otherwise. If you still feel bad for me, whoever is reading this, I'm really sorry but you're probably wasting your time...

And you, my friend, do not need to self-reflect on some imaginary awfulness that you can't quite describe because it's your low self-esteem telling you you're terrible. You need to stop beating yourself up. And a hug, probably.

I will accept any hug because I'm selfish but I'm also sorry that I can't stop beating myself up even if I did get one. Truthfully it really doesn't always feel as bad as it looks because I'm so used to it at this point and the way I see it I'm simply just telling the truth most of the time so it's no harm no foul.

What do you want? What do you expect to happen when you refer to yourself as such things? Are you prepared to have people believe you and look down on you for your own words?

Just realized I didn't really answer these questions. What do I want? Well I guess as corny as it is to say, I dream of an absolution. Not in like a religious way since I'm agnostic and can't really get into any religion enough to care but I still would like to be absolved of my sins without having to deal with any negative effects or repercussions. The only ways I can see this happening are if some woman I like takes it upon herself to make me like myself Manic Pixie Dream Girl style (which I'm aware is a sexist trope, more reason I'm awful for wanting it). The other way is if I CTB though there's a chance I could still end up paying for my crimes in some sort of hell but even though I'm not fully prepared for that it would be what I deserve so I say screw future me that's his problem to deal with.

I don't really know what to expect when I refer to myself negatively. I only do it because it feels like the only way to be honest in my book. I guess I don't care too much how people react though I'm always surprised when people actually end up getting more concerned for me instead of wanting to have nothing to do with me. Just because I haven't done whatever crime gets a random dude canceled for a day doesn't mean I wouldn't do the same in their situation so I'm always baffled when people still feel sorry for me instead of want to hate me like I deserve because that's honestly more what I'd expect. Maybe I just suck at explaining how awful I am?

Tl;dr: I'm pretty awful lol, believe me.

 

[Nexey]

Whether out of laziness or selfishness, I've ghosted friends simply because they badmouthed my imaginary wife.

Not immoral.

I've yelled at both my sisters in a way that terrified them and it was for stupid reasons.

Bad but not "you should be sent to Hell" kind of bad. You're a man, of course your screaming is going to be scary to a couple of women.

I didn't go to either of my grandparents' funerals last year because I didn't want to have to wake up at 6 am and deal with my dad.

Funerals aren't for comforting the dead. This seems like nothing.

I basically cheated my way through college and so my degree is a sham.

If you didn't do this I'd view you as being a moron.

I've been rude to people lots of times just because they were trying to be my friend.

So? Is being rude some kind of crime these days?

I voted for Donald Trump in both the 2016 and 2020 elections.

My concern isn't that you voted for Trump. My concern is that you did so twice while thinking that makes you awful. Really weird.

I've blatantly walked away from people I recognize in public just because I was afraid of having to stop listening to my music.

This is such a silly thing to hold against yourself.

I've rejected so many people who've had crushes on me even though I constantly bitch and whine every day about how I don't have a girlfriend (though to be fair most of them were guys and I'm not gay).

So, you think that rejecting others is awful? Makes me wonder how you feel about other people rejecting you? Odd mindset.

(not against African Americans or Latino people so relax)

lol wtf
Racism is supposed to be bad in all circumstances. Is this really what we're teaching the current generation? "It's okay to be racist, just not against black people?" You wouldn't happen to be a Millennial?

just because some girl from work who showed interest in me got together with a person from said race five years ago. I genuinely wanted every member of that race to die.

The fact that you buried this statement along with "being slightly rude that one time" says a lot and proves my point. You're overplaying minor flaws and heavy downplaying your huge flaws. This is repugnant behavior.

deliberately taken things off the shelf i wasn't gonna buy in stores and not put them back in the proper place.

That's how you finish off this list? "I want ethnic genocide due to my creepy, entitled attitude towards women but UHHH I'm awful because I misplaced something"? You're sick.

Before the events of that girl from work five years ago, I really believed I was a good person

Stop indirectly blaming your issues on women.

No matter how much self reflection I do my stupid mind refuses to move on from that event from years ago.

Self-reflection, my ass. You'd be fixing yourself if you realized how disgusting your mindset is. Not letting yourself rot in it and expecting pity out of others.

I mentioned elsewhere that I actually quite enjoy the suffering of innocents even when it's not by my hand.

Nice, more vague details. Care to be specific, so that you can reflect on things properly?

Usually canceling celebrities for genuine reasons just makes me want to defend them and go to their side especially when they're genuine pieces of shit. Can you really say someone who wants to feel bad for and side with people who are alleged pedophiles, rapists, or racists deserves any sort of redemption?

How about you fix your shit instead of crying to SS about this? Why do you think that working on yourself is like moving a damn boulder? You're willingly being a piece of shit. No amount of tragic backstories or mental illness is going to make up for that. You COULD be a good person, but are making a million and one excuses not to be one. Which just turns into an endless cycle of you saying you're horrible, therefore you become horrible. Nobody is forcing you to be a pedo-sympathizing, Nazi incel. You chose this path and are still choosing it.

I didn't even admit some of the even worse things I've done/thought.

lol wow

You see in my humble opinion, me being aware of all this hatred within me does nothing to curb it and is actually worse than just being evil. The fact that I do nothing about it is arguably even more evil than just doing evil things blissfully unaware that I'm a terrible person (which I've also been guilty of).

It's almost as if you need to work towards dispelling that hatred, hmm...

I've tried, really tried to look in the mirror and see someone that isn't a horrible monster both on the outside and inside.

Right. You tried to reject reality instead of self-improvement. Further proof you're looking for pity and nothing else.

My lizard brain just wants a mate and it will hold the rest of my body hostage until I get to spread the cancer that is my dna out into the world all the while not giving a damn who else cares about my death.

This is pretty creepy considering that you're a self-described racist who wants an ethnic cleansing. What's so special about you and your DNA, exactly?

CTB is probably the most noble thing I can do

There's nothing noble about committing suicide. It's just a way to escape life. What would be noble is you owning up to your bullshit and trying to improve yourself and everything around you but I guess that's too much work when you can just get ass pats from SS.

Well I guess as corny as it is to say, I dream of an absolution. Not in like a religious way since I'm agnostic and can't really get into any religion enough to care but I still would like to be absolved of my sins without having to deal with any negative effects or repercussions.

Part of "absolution" is facing consequences. Even Catholics expect you to feel guilt and an immediate change in behavior post-confession. "Confessing" to a priest with full intention of committing the sin again is considered a mortal sin. I'm assuming you don't know what that is when your views of Christianity seem to come straight from Hollywood and LeVeyan Satanism.

The only ways I can see this happening are if some woman I like takes it upon herself to make me like myself Manic Pixie Dream Girl style (which I'm aware is a sexist trope, more reason I'm awful for wanting it).

This has less to do with sexism and more to do with you relegating your shit onto someone else. If you are a rapist sympathizer, like you claim, then maybe you should stay away from women indefinitely. You'll end up hurting one.

I only do it because it feels like the only way to be honest in my book. I guess I don't care too much how people react though I'm always surprised when people actually end up getting more concerned for me instead of wanting to have nothing to do with me.

You're really good at downplaying your own words and relegating personal responsibility onto others. No wonder?

Tl;dr: I'm pretty awful lol, believe me.

here to give you that validation qween ;3

In all seriousness, I don't despise you. I'm trying to wake you up via harshness. You only live once. Stop squandering away your life and potential.

 

[Endeavour]

Any one can say anything about themselves, some people (manipulative, devious ones for example) tell you they are kind and loyal and would never cheat, then you discover their behaviour shows the exact opposite.

I think you need to pay attention to their actions, not their words since that reveals their true nature.

And when they show you what that is - when they are showing you who they really are - make sure that you believe them.

Not the fairy story they give you.

 

[lofticries]

Meh,maybe they are maybe they aren't. Honestly ppl calling themselves awful or da best that ever was within the first few mins of meeting me irl is kind of a red flag.

edit: honestly standards have to be brought up. Maybe said person who calls themselves awful might have high af standards no one can live up to.

 

[Apathy79]

I'd make 2 related points.

1. Awful is entirely relative and probably ultimately meaningless as a description. Awful compared to what? The average person? My peer group? My ideal of myself? I might self-identify as awful by comparing who I am to who I want to become. To take an example from an autobiography I read recently, Mother Teresa did just that, and almost everyone else on the planet viewed her as saintly, based on the same facts. And just to confuse the issue further, both were likely right by their criteria.

2. Even if we had some basis for assessing someone as awful or not objectively, I doubt there would be any correlation whatsoever, positive or negative, between the people who self-identified that way and the people who met the criteria.

I think the only answer to your question is that most people who call themselves awful are probably telling the truth as they see it. And whether you agreed, saw them as far worse than the awful they described, or saw them as saintly, wouldn't affect the correctness of their assertion.

However, in the spirit of honest self-reflection of awfulness which I think you're looking for, here goes. I've never considered myself an awful person but the gulf between my intentions and actions is growing. I want to be someone who never lies, lives my life like an open book, loves all of life unconditionally and without judgment, writes and speaks inspirationally, improves the lives of everyone I encounter, and refuses any credit for any contribution to anyone or anything (genuinely internally, not as some form of fake humility). That's the intention. As for the action, my day today consisted of about 2 hours on this forum, about 2 hours of work for a client, about an hour reading, about 6 hours of mindless browsing the internet, watching a footy match, eating junk food and masturbating over someone I know. Now to me that seems like a pretty serious disconnect and a sign that my altruistic intentions are becoming a facade so I can feel OK about my life of selfish indulgence of short term pleasures because my intentions are well placed.

That's what keeps me up the most. The sins of omission. Not doing what I need to do. But it's not just that. I'd say 2 other things in particular make me ashamed of myself. One is lust. I long ago decided relationships aren't for me and will remain a single hermit for life but I still lust over girls all the time and have folders on my computer arranged by name containing pictures/videos of most of the pretty girls I've met in my life. I guess I rationalise it by saying it's not hurting anyone, they don't know, all the photos are public anyway, etc., but it doesn't hold up at all. It's a continuation of the choice to put short term pleasure over becoming my best self. The other is lying. This has become so insiduous with a couple of people to the point that it has seeped into my self-talk. Like I'm trying to convince myself its the reality. And the same lies have persisted for so long, decades now with constant reinforcement, that admitting to them seems impossible. I just try to satisfy myself with not starting any new lies now but thats a hollow endeavour when I keep reinforcing old ones.

I mean I have a million other things I could mention. But they're the ones that stick in my craw the most, keep me up at night and draw the most self-criticism. To date, my attempts to fix them have failed. Awful? Probably not. Not good enough? Absolutely. But if you're into moral crusades, feel free to have at it with me!

 

[WornOutLife]

Well, you said it but I really think "IT DEPENDS..."
I know many people who told me they're awful but they're actually not. They've just been through a lot.
Also, I know some others who are really awful according to themselves and the society.

 

[Fragile]

I've also found that it is the people who describe and judge others as "awful" who are really the truly awful ones, they always have the most skeletons in their closets.

 

[Endeavour]

I've also found that it is the people who describe and judge others as "awful" who are really the truly awful ones, they always have the most skeletons in their closets.

So true - my ex would always say how mazing and wonderful people were at the start 6 months later they were the devil incarnate.

While Bealzibubble was in fact her all along, warts and all.

 

[Imaginos]

I don't know. People are what they are. Describing yourself as one thing or another won't change what is. Still, I guess it's better to be upfront about it. If I say I'm awful then it's because I probably am, but it's ultimately up to the other person to decide. If they come to the conclusion that I really am a piece of shit, then hey, at least fair warning was made. Some might interpret this as an excuse for continuing to be awful and not bettering myself, but how the hell am I even supposed to know what that means? I can barely fucking get up from my bed and death/suicide is all that rests in my depressed shrunken brain. I say it's just another way to shit on someone like me for being what I am. Anyway, it's all moot because I don't know anyone and I'll never meet anyone anyway, so who cares.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Not immoral.

Maybe not, but still kind of a petty reason to end a friendship. It's definitely not good.

Bad but not "you should be sent to Hell" kind of bad. You're a man, of course your screaming is going to be scary to a couple of women.

Even if it makes sense that doesn't make it any more or less bad IMO. I've done it more than once too and recently if that helps make it seem worse.

Funerals aren't for comforting the dead. This seems like nothing.

It's still pretty rude the way I see it. They were a huge part of my life in my early childhood and I opted to ignore paying any respects out of cowardice and laziness.

If you didn't do this I'd view you as being a moron.

I'm still a moron because I didn't retain any of the info I was supposed to learn.

So? Is being rude some kind of crime these days?

Well it's generally considered bad to be rude to people who are only trying to help or be nice and that's exactly what I did...

My concern isn't that you voted for Trump. My concern is that you did so twice while thinking that makes you awful. Really weird.

Well even if I myself didn't think that was awful, it's still objectively awful to most people I know and to most people in the world so what I think doesn't matter.

This is such a silly thing to hold against yourself.

Why? It's a pretty dickish thing to do and yet knowing that doesn't make me stop doing it.

So, you think that rejecting others is awful? Makes me wonder how you feel about other people rejecting you? Odd mindset.

I've always felt awful whenever I'm rejected even when I didn't want to be accepted in the first place for whatever reason. When I'm the one who has to reject someone I tend to feel even worse about it but that still doesn't make me not do it even for my own petty selfish reasons. The people who've rejected me in various ways (not just romantically) all had way more justification than I ever could so I don't always hold that against them but that doesn't make the rejection itself hurt any less...

lol wtf
Racism is supposed to be bad in all circumstances. Is this really what we're teaching the current generation? "It's okay to be racist, just not against black people?" You wouldn't happen to be a Millennial?

Yep, I'm a millennial and not just any kind of millennial, I'm a millennial in the Silicon Valley so according to them and Hollywood racism is more okay against some races than others. Obviously I think it's still just as bad no matter what the targeted race is but most people here won't admit that themselves. Me bringing that fact up about how they're not black is just more of me covering my own ass so people don't come after me for it even though it's true.

The fact that you buried this statement along with "being slightly rude that one time" says a lot and proves my point. You're overplaying minor flaws and heavy downplaying your huge flaws. This is repugnant behavior.

You're absolutely right on this one! That's all I have to say to that because I just want to make it more clear to everyone. Very clever of you to see through my deception.

That's how you finish off this list? "I want ethnic genocide due to my creepy, entitled attitude towards women but UHHH I'm awful because I misplaced something"? You're sick.

Same as above.

Stop indirectly blaming your issues on women.

Well I don't deny these events were my own fault. I wasn't trying to directly or indirectly blame these issues on her or any women though if that's how it's interpreted I guess that's the truth of it then. Wouldn't be the first time. Add that to more reasons I'm an incel I guess, which I'm always willing to admit.

Self-reflection, my ass. You'd be fixing yourself if you realized how disgusting your mindset is. Not letting yourself rot in it and expecting pity out of others.

Not necessarily, I know all this about myself BECAUSE of self reflection showing me the truth and getting me to conclude that my mindset is trash just like the rest of me and the fact that I know and do nothing about is a key reason I'm never going to change. If anything, any attempts to go against my true horrible nature would be spitting in the face of my self reflection by denying who I am. Also I don't do or say any of this for pity, I hate it when people pity me because they're clearly wasting their emotional investments.

Nice, more vague details. Care to be specific, so that you can reflect on things properly?

I don't see what's so vague about that. I guess it's pretty broad but I simply get enjoyment from almost anytime when people who don't deserve to suffer have something bad happen to them, like when my friend's dad caught covid I laughed even though he never did anything wrong as far as I know. On a smaller scale, when I play games I play in ways to make my opponents and my teammates hate the fact that I'm playing though that's why I don't get to play many team games. Whenever I hear about tragedies in the news like mass shootings, hurricanes, or violent protests I also usually just laugh. I don't think it's in an involuntary way like in the Joker movie either. I just genuinely found those kinds of events funny. And yes I am aware I am being horrible again by juxtaposing stuff like creating gamer rage with the enjoyment of real human suffering but again, that's kind of the point. I just don't care.

How about you fix your shit instead of crying to SS about this? Why do you think that working on yourself is like moving a damn boulder? You're willingly being a piece of shit. No amount of tragic backstories or mental illness is going to make up for that. You COULD be a good person, but are making a million and one excuses not to be one. Which just turns into an endless cycle of you saying you're horrible, therefore you become horrible. Nobody is forcing you to be a pedo-sympathizing, Nazi incel. You chose this path and are still choosing it.

You're correct that I'm choosing this path but the fact that I'm choosing it is exactly why it's too late for me because now that I've sunk this low I'm not going to bother trying to climb back up unless certain nigh-impossible things happen for me. I'm aware that I'm just stubborn like that so why fight it? I guess I'd just rather cry about it on SS because it's easier than actually fixing myself and I'll always ALWAYS choose the easier path in most situations, or at least whichever the path of least resistance is.

Technically I'm not a Nazi though, at least not by the most common definition. I don't hate Jewish people at all. I've got friends who are Jewish whereas with the race I hate I would rather die than even associate with them. Semantics I know, just thought it was worth pointing out that Jewish people are not the race I target either in case anyone was trying to guess.

It's almost as if you need to work towards dispelling that hatred, hmm...

No duh, but why would I bother doing that? Have I not made it clear that doing that is so beyond my physical abilities to generate the motivation to even make an effort that it will never happen? I'm truly sorry if I haven't because that's just too hard. Plus the hatred is some of the only comfort I have because there's certainly no love to be found for me. I don't care that the love won't come until I give up the hatred. I'm not falling for that trick. Love has to come first before I give up the hatred otherwise I could easily be left with nothing.

Right. You tried to reject reality instead of self-improvement. Further proof you're looking for pity and nothing else.

How is that rejecting reality? If anything, this is just me embracing the reality that I'm awful and can't change because I won't change. As I said before, I'm definitely not intentionally looking for pity. I can't deny it feels good to be heard, but I'd truly rather have people ignore what I say than pity me for it.

This is pretty creepy considering that you're a self-described racist who wants an ethnic cleansing. What's so special about you and your DNA, exactly?

Absolutely nothing is special about my genes. It's just more proof of how disgusting I am. I'm glad you see it for what it is.

There's nothing noble about committing suicide. It's just a way to escape life. What would be noble is you owning up to your bullshit and trying to improve yourself and everything around you but I guess that's too much work when you can just get ass pats from SS.

It's only noble because it's removing myself from the world before I can continue to do more harm to everyone around me and even the world. I admit it's not actually that noble, but it's still the most noble thing I can actually realistically do. Me owning up to my bullshit and trying to improve things is like asking for me to become an all-powerful wizard who can grant all the wishes of all the good boys and girls. Both scenarios are more noble than CTB'ing but they're also both equally unrealistic. As for the asspats of SS, once again I'd like to affirm that I truly don't give a damn. I won't turn them away but I could care less whether I actually receive them.

Part of "absolution" is facing consequences. Even Catholics expect you to feel guilt and an immediate change in behavior post-confession. "Confessing" to a priest with full intention of committing the sin again is considered a mortal sin. I'm assuming you don't know what that is when your views of Christianity seem to come straight from Hollywood and LeVeyan Satanism.

My views of Christianity come from my mom actually being Christian and me going to Sunday school for a bit when I was younger. She wasn't Catholic so I dunno about confessions, all I mean is that I just wouldn't be able to accept Jesus forgiving my sins by praying to him regardless of whether or not I'd do them again which varies depending on the sin. It just doesn't work on me is all I'm saying. Besides I'm also aware that going out to do Churchly deeds like missionary work or whatever with the sole purpose of washing sins away is also a bad thing so I don't even bother. I know that good deeds don't matter when they're only done out of convenience or selfish reasons.

Any other consequences I refuse to accept are part of me being a piece of shit and yeah you're right that I can't have absolution without even trying but that's still all I want. Some people want unicorns to be real and that's about how realistic my wants are.

This has less to do with sexism and more to do with you relegating your shit onto someone else. If you are a rapist sympathizer, like you claim, then maybe you should stay away from women indefinitely. You'll end up hurting one.

I completely agree. It's why I don't try as hard as I should to go after people because part of me doesn't want to have to make any woman suffer just by knowing me. I believe that just meeting me is grounds for any woman to have all they need to legally accuse me of sexual harassment. I was once told that I only think this because my mind has been poisoned by wokeness but even if that's true, it doesn't matter because that's just the direction the world is headed right now which to some people is a good thing so it's not likely going away anytime soon. Good for them but all that is all the more reason why I deserve to die without getting better. People today don't want to see evil people redeemed, just removed from society. Usually by dying.

You're really good at downplaying your own words and relegating personal responsibility onto others. No wonder?

I don't really know exactly what you mean by this or how you got it from what you quoted from me before saying this. I wasn't really trying to do any of that but that doesn't mean I didn't do them so sure, why not? More awful acts to add to the pile.

here to give you that validation qween ;3

In all seriousness, I don't despise you. I'm trying to wake you up via harshness. You only live once. Stop squandering away your life and potential.

Well thanks for validating me and not just denying my awfulness like so many people I talk to irl do. I see what you're trying to do and even if it was harsh I'm grateful for the novel approach though I'm sorry your efforts are likely still wasted... Squandering my life is practically my top skill and I don't have any potential unfortunately. I'm really sorry I made it look like I have some.

 

[Hirokami]

People who are truly awful tend to lack self-awareness. And if they are aware of their awfulness, they aren't at all concerned about it.