DarkRange55

DarkRange55

Enlightened
Oct 15, 2023
1,790
What do you think defines who you are? Our choices and the ones we care about? What do you define as identity? One of my best friends recently said he feels like he doesn't have the strongest sense of identity. Just identifying and attaching yourself to ideologies and structures and ideas?

"We're not our bodies, we're the decisions we make, the lives we change, the people we love or who love us."
- Invincible, S2E7
 
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sserafim

sserafim

brighter than the sun, that’s just me
Sep 13, 2023
9,013
Me, myself and I

Our decisions define who we are. Our lives are just a sum of our choices. I define identity as your views, likes and dislikes, hobbies, passions, interests, etc
 
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EvisceratedJester

EvisceratedJester

|| What Else Could I Be But a Jester ||
Oct 21, 2023
3,432
It's funny you mention this because just today I came across this interesting short talking about how we tend to talk about our lives in a similar fashion to how we talk about stories.



This also extends into pro-life rhetoric. People tend to view life as them being the protagonists of their own story and this view is generally encouraged by wider society (competition shows, univeristy/colleges, social media, etc). This can lead to us also viewing ourselves in a more story-based sort of manner. We try to describe our identities in a similar fashion to how you would describe a character, and in some extreme cases, you can even see people who are actually convinced that they are a character from a work of fiction. I've seen a lot of people like this online and it's a bit concerning to be honest...

In reality, our entire being, from the things that happened to us to how they have impacted the way we think, are as a result of chance, rather than it being as a result of some sort of narrative. You can't define a person the same way you would define a character because a real person is too complex. We don't follow a particular character arc and aren't destined for anything. People in general cannot be categorized into neatly boxed identities, but we still try to do this anyway because of a mixture of our tendency to simplify and categorize the things and because we have a habit of viewing life from a more story type of view. This tendency to view life as a story also goes into pro-life rhetoric. Phrases like "it'll get better" likely stem from them viewing life in a more story-like manner, with suicidal people needing to get through their arc in order to have a happily ever after. In reality, things don't necessarily get better because we live in world where things are determined in a more sort of random matter. Some people might get better, but some people might not. It all depends on a variety of factors, like what's going on in someone's life, and also just pure chance.

I personally don't have a strong grasp on my own identity. I never have and probably never will, but that's fine. I used to scramble around doing different personality tests and all sorts of shit in order to try and define myself, but I can't. I've come to accept that. In my opinion, the "self" is just an illusion created by the brain to better aid in our processing of the world around us. My "self" is just a byproduct of my own neural systems. I don't have a particular identity because no particular identity will ever truly encompass the strange and complex being that I am. I like to believe that this applies to everyone. I think that it's better not to tie yourself down to an identity.


Sorry if this reads as nonsense, btw. I've been having a lot thoughts on stuff like this lately that I'm still learning to make sense of, so this post might be kind of nonsensical, lol.
 
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sserafim

sserafim

brighter than the sun, that’s just me
Sep 13, 2023
9,013
It's funny you mention this because just today I came across this interesting short talking about how we tend to talk about our lives in a similar fashion to how we talk about stories.



This also extends into pro-life rhetoric. People tend to view life as them being the protagonists of their own story and this view is generally encouraged by wider society (competition shows, univeristy/colleges, social media, etc). This can lead to us also viewing ourselves in a more story-based sort of manner. We try to describe our identities in a similar fashion to how you would describe a character, and in some extreme cases, you can even see people who are actually convinced that they are a character from a work of fiction. I've seen a lot of people like this online and it's a bit concerning to be honest...

In reality, our entire being, from the things that happened to us to how they have impacted the way we think, are as a result of chance, rather than it being as a result of some sort of narrative. You can't define a person the same way you would define a character because a real person is too complex. We don't follow a particular character arc and aren't destined for anything. People in general cannot be categorized into neatly boxed identities, but we still try to do this anyway because of a mixture of our tendency to simplify and categorize the things and because we have a habit of viewing life from a more story type of view. This tendency to view life as a story also goes into pro-life rhetoric. Phrases like "it'll get better" likely stem from them viewing life in a more story-like manner, with suicidal people needing to get through their arc in order to have a happily ever after. In reality, things don't necessarily get better because we live in world where things are determined in a more sort of random matter. Some people might get better, but some people might not. It all depends on a variety of factors, like what's going on in someone's life, and also just pure chance.

I personally don't have a strong grasp on my own identity. I never have and probably never will, but that's fine. I used to scramble around doing different personality tests and all sorts of shit in order to try and define myself, but I can't. I've come to accept that. In my opinion, the "self" is just an illusion created by the brain to better aid in our processing of the world around us. My "self" is just a byproduct of my own neural systems. I don't have a particular identity because no particular identity will ever truly encompass the strange and complex being that I am. I like to believe that this applies to everyone. I think that it's better not to tie yourself down to an identity.


Sorry if this reads as nonsense, btw. I've been having a lot thoughts on stuff like this lately that I'm still learning to make sense of, so this post might be kind of nonsensical, lol.

Everyone's life is a story
 
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EvisceratedJester

EvisceratedJester

|| What Else Could I Be But a Jester ||
Oct 21, 2023
3,432
Everyone's life is a story
Nobody's life is a story. It's just a series of events with no actual narrative structure. For all we know, our species existence is something that came about by pure chance.
 
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DarkRange55

DarkRange55

Enlightened
Oct 15, 2023
1,790
Nobody's life is a story. It's just a series of events with no actual narrative structure. For all we know, our species existence is something that came about by pure chance.
But it's fascinating how we have a tendency to mythologize our own lives in our heads. I forgot the term for it in sociology but a lot cultures through history would share there ideals and morality and cultural identity through a great myth. I'm missing a lot and not representing it well.
Me, myself and I

Our decisions define who we are. Our lives are just a sum of our choices. I define identity as your views, likes and dislikes, hobbies, passions, interests, etc
It seems interesting though how people attach themselves to ideas and ascribe identity to this zeal. It's really interesting. You had a thread about culture and personality and I would say 100%.
 
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SexyIncél

SexyIncél

🍭my lollipop brings the feminists to my candyshop
Aug 16, 2022
1,482
But it's fascinating how we have a tendency to mythologize our own lives in our heads. I forgot the term for it in sociology but a lot cultures through history would share there ideals and morality and cultural identity through a great myth. I'm missing a lot and not representing it well.
Founding mythology? Yeah, probably every nation-state has one. And ideologies like mainstream econ have them too, like the myth of barter
 
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Dr Iron Arc

Dr Iron Arc

Into the Unknown
Feb 10, 2020
20,973
Damn. Spoilers! I wasn't going to watch the new season until it's all out! 😜

As for the quote itself, I don't believe we merely are our decisions. There are undeniable physical facts about what we are in reality. We are Homo sapiens sapiens. Nothing can change that. Besides that though, we are also our thoughts and beliefs and memories. I'm someone evil not because I do evil things, but because I would do evil things in the right circumstances. I only don't do them now because I am fearful and lazy but trying to fix these things would actively be causing more harm to the world.

Going back to external features, I can't deny that I am Asian. No matter how much I prefer American culture and don't conform to a lot of the stereotypes one look at me says that being Asian is who I am. It's the same with me being an incel. The fact is I'm involuntarily celibate and no amount of acting far from the typical incel is going to change that. Just because I don't hate women or watch whatever influencers the manosphere has got doesn't mean women are attracted to me. It doesn't change the fact that they shouldn't be. Just because a vegetarian doesn't violently hate meat eaters doesn't mean their diet consists of meat.

In my opinion trying to deny identity, even the bad parts just because of other members of the same identity who did bad things is futile.
 
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C

ConfusedClouds

Specialist
Mar 9, 2024
319
I have no clue what defines it. I just know when I'm supposedely in one of those open/welcoming/friendly environment/spaces/groups/teams, I then feel awkward and super conscious that I don't know or trust who I am - and feel overwhelmed that I should have some form of identity to ironically 'fit in' somewhere where 'everyones welcome'. Makes me question myself and if me just bumbling along as I am is wrong
 
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F

Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
9,420
I suppose it's everything that's ever happened to us plus genetic factors perhaps- tendencies to react in certain ways to things either inherited or learned from our care givers.

What I find interesting/ frightening is hearing of people who have suffered things like strokes or the onset of alzeimers and their character can change. Frightingly so sometimes. I've heard of former friendly, funny and generous people becoming violent. Heart breaking for those around them to witness and probably distressing for them too if they can understand what's happening to them. It seems weird that our character has a particular place in the brain and certain illnesses can mess with it.

But, as to the definition of it, I'd say it's how we react to the world around us. Not that I've seen it but I suppose, like the film 'Sliding Doors', sometimes I wonder how different we'd all be if certain things hadn't happened or, had happened in our lives- for better or worse. I suppose our identities are subtly changing all the time. The more dramatic events in our lives alter them the most.
 
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sserafim

sserafim

brighter than the sun, that’s just me
Sep 13, 2023
9,013
I suppose it's everything that's ever happened to us plus genetic factors perhaps- tendencies to react in certain ways to things either inherited or learned from our care givers.

What I find interesting/ frightening is hearing of people who have suffered things like strokes or the onset of alzeimers and their character can change. Frightingly so sometimes. I've heard of former friendly, funny and generous people becoming violent. Heart breaking for those around them to witness and probably distressing for them too if they can understand what's happening to them. It seems weird that our character has a particular place in the brain and certain illnesses can mess with it.

But, as to the definition of it, I'd say it's how we react to the world around us. Not that I've seen it but I suppose, like the film 'Sliding Doors', sometimes I wonder how different we'd all be if certain things hadn't happened or, had happened in our lives- for better or worse. I suppose our identities are subtly changing all the time. The more dramatic events in our lives alter them the most.
I think it's nature as well as nurture. We are our DNA and genetic code, but there's also epigenetics, which is basically how genes get turned or turned off depending on the environment. Therefore, I think that upbringing and experience also play a part in our personality due to epigenetics. It would be interesting to have two people with the exact same DNA (identical twins?) but raise them in different environments and see how they develop.
What I find interesting/ frightening is hearing of people who have suffered things like strokes or the onset of alzeimers and their character can change. Frightingly so sometimes. I've heard of former friendly, funny and generous people becoming violent. Heart breaking for those around them to witness and probably distressing for them too if they can understand what's happening to them. It seems weird that our character has a particular place in the brain and certain illnesses can mess with it.
Well, structure dictates function. That's a part of biology. Everything stems from the brain. We're still biological beings at the end of the day. There's also Phineas Gage who became sociopathic after his head was impaled by a rod. I think his frontal lobe got destroyed. I heard that frontal lobe damage can make someone sociopathic
 
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derpyderpins

derpyderpins

Normie Life Mogs
Sep 19, 2023
1,797
What do you think defines who you are? Our choices and the ones we care about? What do you define as identity? One of my best friends recently said he feels like he doesn't have the strongest sense of identity. Just identifying and attaching yourself to ideologies and structures and ideas?

"We're not our bodies, we're the decisions we make, the lives we change, the people we love or who love us."
- Invincible, S2E7
How you live and high you fly, smiles you'll give and tears you cry, all you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be.

I think your life is ultimately "defined" by other people. Like how we say history is written by the victors - the collective understanding of your life is the understanding of those around you. Who is more alive right now, me or Ian Curtis? Well, Curtis killed himself decades ago, but his voice and pain in "Disorder" was able to touch me just this morning. I've felt and experienced so much, but does it matter when it doesn't reach anyone? So, the question of "Derpyderpins is defined as X" is not one I get the privilege of answering alone, else I could say he is the king of the world and everyone wants to just give him all their stuff right now. So, hopefully the people I interact with are being impacted in a positive way by my life, because ultimately they define me.

For the sake of keeping things interesting I'll posit that one's identity is different. In fact, it's almost the reverse. My identity is what I've taken from my surroundings - people, interactions, values, mannerisms, ideals, beliefs - and combined with my natural genetic make up to make the nature/nurture blob that is me. I am natural pessimism blended with my grandfather's optimism. My patience is born from my experiences, and each time I wanted someone to be patient with me I in turn decided to try and be more patient, even if I'm naturally a little short-tempered. So, your identity is something you build throughout your life, block by block.

I think you can see identity most in how you actually respond to situations, rather than how you would describe yourself on paper with no pressure, as we're subject to bias. One might say their identity involves searching for truth, but if they turn their heads when their beliefs face opposition, then their actual identity is one who hides from truth. If I say I am a loner who doesn't want to interact with people but I spend all day willfully interacting with people, I clearly don't understand myself. Something like this may be why your friend feels how he does.
 
M

Meteora

Ignorance is bliss
Jun 27, 2023
2,007
Hey @DarkRange55
I think, there are differents standpoints from where to define identity. Religion does it differently that psychology, philosophy differently than medicine and so on.
Personally, I think identity changes all the time. I can identify with a job but once I get cancelled I partially have to find a new identity. If you become a parent, you most likely identify with being a father or mother. Identity is temporary and grows, changes. Guess that's a big challenge we all face.
 

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