I was looking at the "end sanctioned suicide" Facebook group or whatever it's called...

[Install-Gentoo]

And I noticed that only women post in it. I'm not making any sort of inference based on this, it's just a strange observation. You'd think both genders would care about this sort of thing...?

No, I don't agree with them and I think this site has a right to stay up, and that it helps many people. I think the "pro-choice" argument should be spread as much as possible, but I also think that there are many tragic "in-the-moment" kind of suicides.

 

[Life_and_Death]

that just kinda proves how far its not going to go. if it was a protest that "got off the ground" then others would be supporting it. ive seen guys support feminism even though that probably harms more men than it helps society as a whole, yet they support that so youd totally think the same would apply here especially where its not a gender specific subject (feminism, abortion, ect)

 

[FuneralCry]

I think that they are just grieving people who are thinking irrationally. I personally try to avoid anything pro life, it just makes me feel worse. These people are delusional in thinking that removing a website would stop suicide, people would find ways to ctb no matter what and so many people ctb even before this website existed and so many people who ctb were likely not even aware of this website. They are just looking for something to blame.
And it would be different if life got much worse for them like they developed an illness or something and then they would likely want ctb methods. All humans have the unlimited potential to suffer after all.

I don't really agree that suicide is tragic though. To die prevents all problems and removes all suffering. The non existent are at rest, nothing can bother them. Making it as difficult as possible for people to ctb and denying peaceful method options is the real tragic thing.

 

[Someone123]

They are typically parents of college age students who had a temporary crisis that if their family knew about they would have given them all kinds of love and caring and resources to help them- typically these situations fit the pattern of a temporary crisis that if you could have gotten through they would have lead long, happy lives, so I can understand their pain fully and that they want to keep other families from experiencing the same thing. Other people who ctb have long term chronic problems that really aren't fixable for most of this group. Of course there is some grey area in between. So helping to rescue those in a temporary crisis is very well worth doing while letting others who have longet term problewms that they really can't fix find peace. There isn't any easy way to develop a system for this. I kinow of a famous case from Canada where a young man, I think under 25, started having severe chronic pain that could not be fixed, and he tried to legally ctb in canada but it didn't work. He tried every kind fo medication and treatment, and his own family supported his choice to ctb to stop the pain. One night he left in the middle of the night and went to a hotel and did ctb- his method has not been mentioned. So it is a tough problem- how do you save people who can be saved while letting others find peace? Some older celebrfities likely could have been helped, such as Anthony Bourdain- he needed the right kind of help, time off from work likely and spending time with people who care about him. It is not easy to work this out, but stopping all ctb is not the answer, some people really need relief from their pain.

 

[akirat9]

I think that they are just grieving people who are thinking irrationally

strange, they say this about us

 

[makethepainstop]

Those people who want to shut us down, probably had a boyfriend girlfriend, or a family member who ctb. So they are hurting inside and need to blame someone, or anyone for their loss. When the fault may lie not with us, but with them. Usually the people who cry loudest about a suicide loss, are the ones who failed to engage, and comfort the one who walked off. Love to all here.

 

[lionetta12]

And I noticed that only women post in it. I'm not making any sort of inference based on this, it's just a strange observation. You'd think both genders would care about this sort of thing...?

No, I don't agree with them and I think this site has a right to stay up, and that it helps many people. I think the "pro-choice" argument should be spread as much as possible, but I also think that there are many tragic "in-the-moment" kind of suicides.

I don't know much about the group and I don't have social media so I can't look too much into it either. But from the little information I've read about the group in previous threads on here, it sounds like it consist and is ran largely by stay at home surburban moms with a bit of free time? So I guess that's why most of them are female.

 

[Install-Gentoo]

They are typically parents of...

Your post does have good insight into people's motivation, and I can understand that kind of thing.
But it doesn't really explain the gender thing - parents are male and female

it sounds like it consist and is ran largely by stay at home surburban moms with a bit of free time? So I guess that's why most of them are female.

This makes sense, good point. Maybe their husbands don't spend time on Facebook I guess.

Those people who want to shut us down, probably had a boyfriend girlfriend, or a family member who ctb.

Yeah, but surely there would be men that think this way too. I think lionetta gets it right

Usually the people who cry loudest about a suicide loss, are the ones who failed to engage, and comfort the one who walked off. Love to all here.

:( yeah, that seems to be the case. Sometimes suicidal people appear perfectly fine on the outside and so people don't even think to ask them if anything is wrong, so I wouldn't blame others in that situation. But... Yeah, sometimes it's like "omg it's such a surprise, how was I supposed to know when I only call them once a year"

 

[KQuotientW]

I won't minimise the experiences of parents who've lost children. The cruel sting of a break-up or being bullied at school and their child decided to CTB. It must be awful to lose a child. However, there are other reasons why people, adults, want to CTB and it should not be taken away from them.

In the year 2000, my mother was diagnosed with stage 4, ovarian cancer. She looked into Phillip Nitschke's literature. In the end, she was concerned about myself or my stepfather getting into trouble with the law, so she died in a hospice. Cancer is not a nice way to die. There's a lot of suffering. My mother passed in 2001. I'm supposed to have surgery, a hysterectomy and oophorectomy, after I've been through menopause... I think I'm the only woman on the planet who's been wanting to hurry up and enter menopause so I can have the surgery.

I'm pro-choice. I believe that we should be free to choose when and how we die. I'm not here to tell people that they must take their own life. I'm not a troll or cyberbully. I have no interest in tearing others down. I support those who have, of their own volition, made the choice to CTB.

I live with chronic pain, I have a stalker (not an ex) of 9+years, and I get bullied and harassed by police because I do have an ex who was a cop. Cops do nothing about the stalker. Even a few days ago I reported to police because stalker was at it again, but police did nothing, even though I have a court order on this prick. Police are fucking useless. Police unlawfully took my last home from me because I'd tried to report my ex, again, for domestic violence and sexual offences. They kicked me out of my home, onto the street. I even lost the contents of my home. My ex didn't own it and our relationship had ended years before. I couldn't get a place to rent, I wasn't eligible for social housing, etc. I bought this place where I live now. I fkn hate it here. It's worth so little that there's nothing else of equivalent value on the property market. It's even harder to find a rental property and I'm not eligible for social housing. I tried GoFundMe, but, of course, no one donated a single cent. I haven't spoken to my family in years because of deeply entrenched, generational domestic violence and abuse. I'm stuck living here and stalker knows it.

Unless the pro-lifers can come up with a magic solution to end my chronic pain, and give me about $100k to move to a safer location, after the pandemic pushed real estate prices up in rural areas as panic stricken people fled the city, they can go get fkd. They honestly need to see that there are many reasons why people want to CTB. It's not always over a short term problem.

 

[Pluto]

A lot of good points made here. To most reasonable people, an Amanda Todd-style teenager CTB-ing over a temporary or avoidable difficulty is a tragic outcome, while at the opposite end of the spectrum, a terminally ill person being denied a peaceful death is equally inhumane. Excessively easy access to CTB methods is ethically dubious in the former case, while lack of access is a dreadful outcome in the latter. Almost all of us occupy the vast grey area in between; debates of differing opinions could ring out until the cows come home, yet ultimately, we all need to make our own choices as best we can.

I haven't looked into the group in great detail, but the feeling that I have is that it's a mother's social club for those who have lost children under tragic circumstances. It becomes a challenge to both acknowledge the trauma and frustration that they would be feeling, yet to see the error in their simplistic suicide=bad perspective.

In some cases, it seems to me that their tendency to view complex situations without nuance, to ruthlessly externalise blame and never take responsibility for their own behavioural dysfunction could have been an underlying factor behind losing loved ones to suicide. This narcissism is not very compatible with the role of being an engaged, warm and caring parent.

Sadly, the nature of their tiny toolbox of solutions will simply see them find a new target and join forces with others sharing their worldview. They will suffer the full heartbreak of being grieving parents yet still haven't outgrown the immaturity of egocentrism that has been driving them all along. It truly is a sad situation for all concerned, but attacking our community is not the answer.

 

[CatLover]

I read somewhere that while both genders more or less equally are on Facebook in general, those who join Facebook Groups are really heavily skewed female. I've no idea why, but it seems like men and women like to engage with the platform differently.

 

[hamvil]

I assume it is because of events involving young people, not just below 18 but even below 25 or similar. The phase of life can be brutal but many crisis are temporary and with time the situation improves. Those people can be saved somehow. I believe the groups worry mich less if a person above 40/50 commits suicide.

I am also curious if there is a reason for the majority of women in those groups. Maybe maternal instinct, no clue tbh.

 

[MissLisa]

I expect those groups are mostly grieving mothers who have lost a child to suicide. They just need somewhere to vent and something to blame, to have a reason for the loss.

 

[GenesAndEnvironment]

Karens tend to be women. This isn't a "Florida Man" kind of thing.

 

[wljourney]

Socializing has always been different between sexes and that applies to social media as well.

This article is 12 years old and even then it was pretty clear.
Men look for information, connect over sports and in smaller groups.
Women look for community, share information differently and are more interested in social justice topics etc.

What Men And Women Are Doing On Facebook

Women use social networking tools to make connections, while men use them to raise their status.

www.forbes.com

 

[CatLover]

Thanks wljourney, I find this sort of thing fascinating.

 

[wljourney]

Thanks wljourney, I find this sort of thing fascinating.

me too. I always wonder how much of these behaviours are learned through socialization and how much is just... nature.
Fascinating indeed.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

This makes sense, good point. Maybe their husbands don't spend time on Facebook I guess.

Facebook is sort of effeminate, isn't it? Cell phones sort of are, too, IMO.

 

[littlelungs]

I personally try to avoid anything pro life, it just makes me feel worse.

And it would be different if life got much worse for them like they developed an illness or something and vfc then they would likely want ctb methods. All humans have the unlimited potential to suffer after all.

Yeah, the lack of perspective regarding the people who are confined to unbearable suffering for which there are no practical or accessible solutions is beyond frustrating and makes me feel so hopeless and misunderstood. I understand that most of them are in pain and grieving the loss of a loved one, and that is absolutely valid and understandable, but their approach is so terribly misguided and doesn't actually do anybody any favours, nor does it even address a lot of the underlying issues that contribute to a person being suicidal/wanting to end their life in the first place; if anything it just exacerbates suffering. I can only speak for myself, but getting taken to the hospital by the cops and subsequently being involuntarily detained and treated like a burden and a criminal for simply calling the hotline just to talk, or a photo of mountains with text on it that says "it gets better" or "you are loved/special/needed" or whatever the hell has absolutely no effect on my situation or how I feel. It does not help the crippling trauma that I deal with as a result of being abused in countless ways from the age of 6 and onwards, it does not alleviate my severe, chronic illnesses and complications and the relentless physical and psychological agony that I suffer from every second of the day, it does not change the state of the healthcare and social systems or make them more accessible, it does not change my genetic makeup, etc etc ad infinitum.

I can guarantee that if they spent even just a few hours in our place, they wouldn't be so hell-bent on preventing suicide at all costs – especially in the way they've been going about it – and trying to restrict access to a platform in which a person can find community and understanding, as well as information and resources that help them to end their suffering peacefully, IF they so choose. It's about bodily autonomy and making informed decisions; making information available is not the equivalent to actively encouraging suicide, which these people don't seem to understand.

It's tragic if a person suffers so much to the point where they are no longer able to keep going, but this world is cold and harsh and life can be nothing short of absolutely brutal, and it's fucking cruel to actively try to confine people to unbearable, indefinite suffering and hold them hostage to their own pain. Just like other people's lives are not ours to take, they're also not ours to keep, and as a society we should at least have the decency to give people the OPTION to escape in the most peaceful, efficient and humane way possible.

 

[Install-Gentoo]

Yeah, the lack of perspective regarding the people who are confined to unbearable suffering for which there are no practical or accessible solutions is beyond frustrating and makes me feel so hopeless and misunderstood. I understand that most of them are in pain and grieving the loss of a loved one, and that is absolutely valid and understandable, but their approach is so terribly misguided and doesn't actually do anybody any favours, nor does it even address a lot of the underlying issues that contribute to a person being suicidal/wanting to end their life in the first place; if anything it just exacerbates suffering. I can only speak for myself, but getting taken to the hospital by the cops and subsequently being involuntarily detained and treated like a burden and a criminal for simply calling the hotline just to talk, or a photo of mountains with text on it that says "it gets better" or "you are loved/special/needed" or whatever the hell has absolutely no effect on my situation or how I feel. It does not help the crippling trauma that I deal with as a result of being abused in countless ways from the age of 6 and onwards, it does not alleviate my severe, chronic illnesses and complications and the relentless physical and psychological agony that I suffer from every second of the day, it does not change the state of the healthcare and social systems or make them more accessible, it does not change my genetic makeup, etc etc ad infinitum.

I can guarantee that if they spent even just a few hours in our place, they wouldn't be so hell-bent on preventing suicide at all costs – especially in the way they've been going about it – and trying to restrict access to a platform in which a person can find community and understanding, as well as information and resources that help them to end their suffering peacefully, IF they so choose. It's about bodily autonomy, making informed decisions; making information available is not the equivalent to actively encouraging suicide, which these people don't seem to understand.

It's tragic if a person suffers so much to the point where they are no longer able to keep going, but this world is cold and harsh and life can be nothing short of absolutely brutal, and it's fucking cruel to actively try to confine people to unbearable, indefinite suffering and holding them hostage to their own pain. Just like other people's lives are not ours to take, they're also not ours to keep, and as a society we should at least have the decency to give people the OPTION to escape in the most peaceful, efficient and humane way possible.

Amen.

 

[GasMonkey]

Also women suicide ~68% less than men in the Western world, maybe there more female pro-lifers that male.