I was just sectioned

[blueming]

I have been in the hospital for 3 days already and am not allowed to leave. Most of the nurses are kind, but no one knows what will happen to me and no one can tell me anything no matter who I ask. I have already begun the process of appealing the section, but the so-called mental health team change every single time I meet with them and all of them give me different timeframes and answers to my questions about the appeal. They're supposed to give me a list of solicitors to advise me on my appeal but so far nothing. I'm not even having any treatments at the moment because they can't find a bed for me in a psychiatric hospital, they're just trapping me here for the sake of it for an "indefinite period of time".

One of the ward staff who was present at the time I was sectioned pulled me aside and told me that the psychiatrists there only sectioned me because their shift was done and they wanted to go home quickly. It was very late at night and they woke me up just to bombard me with questions for 5 minutes. I said I was happy to cooperate and stay voluntarily, but I let it slip that I had a bad experience being hospitalised before and wouldn't like to go through that again. Not even a minute later they told me I was sectioned, while putting on their coats and getting ready to leave.

On top of that - they announced that I was sectioned late on the 20th and I was barred from leaving, with security eyeing my every move. But last night I found out that they only signed the section papers yesterday afternoon. There was a lot of confusion with the nurses about whether the section started when they told me and forbade me to leave, or when the documents were signed. Today another member of the mental health team told me that it only started when the papers were signed, so yesterday. I am very confused about the legality of this - for the 2 nights prior, were they keeping me illegally?

I'm very scared and confused but I'm trying to keep a level head and sort this out. I would like to use this thread to keep track of updates, since I am alone here and I have no one to rely on or help me. If anyone has any experience of being sectioned/appealing the section I would absolutely appreciate the help!

Emotionally, I am very distressed but I've been doing my best to hide it and I have been cooperating with everyone. There have been a couple of nurses/ward staff who have been absolute angels and super kind to me, then there are the ones that look at me warily as if I'm some kind of wild animal. The doctors and psychiatrists are all demons. Losing my freedom on top of everything is the last straw for me. I'm being treated like a criminal simply because I want full autonomy over my life? I feel less than human.

tl;dr: the mental health system is broken and an absolute clusterfuck of a joke

 

[Tesha]

I'm presuming you're in the UK - what section are you under? 2, 3, 4, 5(2)?

 

[blueming]

I'm presuming you're in the UK - what section are you under? 2, 3, 4, 5(2)?

Section 2, I'm 99% sure. One of the nurses told me that they changed it to a section 3 and they'll change it again to a section 4 soon, but I think she didn't really know what she was talking about.

 

[Tesha]

Ok, so they can't treat you under a S2 - this section is just for assessment. If you've only been on it for a few days, it's unlikely they're going to move you to a S3 just yet (as they probably won't have had time to properly assess, unless they already know you). You won't be moved to a S4 if you're on either a S2 or S3.

Ask them for the paperwork. You and you nearest relative have different legal rights depending if it's S2 or S3, so you absolutely have to know which you're on. They cannot refuse to tell you.

Edit - it may be that you were originally on a 5(2) - which can be put in place by a doctor for up to 3 days, while they sorted out the mental health act assessment.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

I'm sorry you have to go through this.

 

[blueming]

Ok, so they can't treat you under a S2 - this section is just for assessment. If you've only been on it for a few days, it's unlikely they're going to move you to a S3 just yet (as they probably won't have had time to properly assess, unless they already know you). You won't be moved to a S4 if you're on either a S2 or S3.

Ask them for the paperwork. You and you nearest relative have different legal rights depending if it's S2 or S3, so you absolutely have to know which you're on. They cannot refuse to tell you.

I'm so confused, the mental health team told me it was for both assessment and treatment. They were even peddling anti-depressants to me yesterday. And it's not that they're refusing to tell me, it's that everyone tells me something different. No one here knows what's going on, and the nurses have told me themselves that the mental health team is incredibly understaffed.

Edit: No I wasn't on a 5(2), the psychiatrist who told me I was sectioned said section 2 for up to 28 days.

 

[alltoomuch2]

Have you had an advocate provided? I thought if you were sectioned you had to be given an advocate to help you, stand up for you and establish what's going on?

https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/guides-to-support-and-services/advocacy/imhas-england/

 

[Tesha]

I know it can feel so overwhelming when you're in the middle of it. They can suggest medication if you're on a S2, but they can't force it upon you (which they could initially do under a S3).

You said you've already appealed, so you must've been informed what section you were on to enable you to appeal. As I said, I know it can be difficult to get clear information, but you're absolutely entitled to it, if you're no longer sure.

Ask to speak with the nurse in charge and request they provide you with your sectioning paperwork / the hospitals form they have to give you about your rights. Do not take 'no' or vague responses as the answer - repeatedly state it's your legal right to be informed and push for it.

 

[timetodie24]

I know it can feel so overwhelming when you're in the middle of it. They can suggest medication if you're on a S2, but they can't force it upon you (which they could initially do under a S3).

You said you've already appealed, so you must've been informed what section you were on to enable you to appeal. As I said, I know it can be difficult to get clear information, but you're absolutely entitled to it, if you're no longer sure.

Ask to speak with the nurse in charge and request they provide you with your sectioning paperwork / the hospitals form they have to give you about your rights. Do not take 'no' or vague responses as the answer - repeatedly state it's your legal right to be informed and push for it.

@blueming So sorry for what you're going through OP . I know it can be so stressful and confusing when they're terrible at explaining what's happening and your rights.

Have they offered you an independent mental health advocate as you have a right to one?
You should have been given paperwork on the day you were sectioned explaining what section you were under, your legal rights and your rights to appeal (a tribunal) . So you should ask for that

They can force treatment under a section 2 though too https://www.mind.org.uk/information...atment/could-i-be-treated-without-my-consent/
It is for both assessment and treatment . To work out what is going on and treat you if they do decide you have a mental illness. Where as s3 they need to name a specific illness that you are being treated for .

 

[Tesha]

Edit: No I wasn't on a 5(2), the psychiatrist who told me I was sectioned said section 2 for up to 28 days.

Quick question (sorry) - have you been assessed by 2 doctors and an approved mental health professional (AMHP). They may not have all seen you at the same time. If you've been told it's a section 2, and not been reassessed again, then you won't be on a S3.

Edit - my mistake re S2 and treatment, thanks for correcting @timetodie24

 

[blueming]

Have you had an advocate provided? I thought if you were sectioned you had to be given an advocate to help you, stand up for you and establish what's going on?

https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/guides-to-support-and-services/advocacy/imhas-england/

@blueming So sorry for what you're going through OP . I know it can be so stressful and confusing when they're terrible at explaining what's happening and your rights.

Have they offered you an independent mental health advocate as you have a right to one?

They can force treatment under a section 2 though too https://www.mind.org.uk/information...atment/could-i-be-treated-without-my-consent/

An advocate is one of the things I have asked for but still have not been given a clear answer on. They're not part of the team at the hospital, right? I've asked for one of them to come and speak with me but all the hospital does is send people from their own mental health team.

I know it can feel so overwhelming when you're in the middle of it. They can suggest medication if you're on a S2, but they can't force it upon you (which they could initially do under a S3).

You said you've already appealed, so you must've been informed what section you were on to enable you to appeal. As I said, I know it can be difficult to get clear information, but you're absolutely entitled to it, if you're no longer sure.

Ask to speak with the nurse in charge and request they provide you with your sectioning paperwork / the hospitals form they have to give you about your rights. Do not take 'no' or vague responses as the answer - repeatedly state it's your legal right to be informed and push for it.

I think I'll definitely have to follow your advice and be more assertive! I've been trying to be very easygoing with the staff here since they have presumptions about mental health patients, but the result is just no clear answers and a hell of a lot of stress for me.

Quick question (sorry) - have you been assessed by 2 doctors and an approved mental health professional (AMHP). They may not have all seen you at the same time. If you've been told it's a section 2, and not been reassessed again, then you won't be on a S3.

Edit - my mistake re S2 and treatment, thanks for correcting @timetodie24

Please don't apologise, thank you, and everyone else, so much for trying to help! And I honestly have no idea. All I know is that I've been seen by 3 psychiatrists, people from the mental health team and liaison, and doctors for issues unrelated with mental health.

 

[timetodie24]

An advocate is one of the things I have asked for but still have not been given a clear answer on. They're not part of the team at the hospital, right? I've asked for one of them to come and speak with me but all the hospital does is send people from their own mental health team.



I think I'll definitely have to follow your advice and be more assertive! I've been trying to be very easygoing with the staff here since they have presumptions about mental health patients, but the result is just no clear answers and a hell of a lot of stress for me.



Please don't apologise, thank you, and everyone else, so much for trying to help! And I honestly have no idea. All I know is that I've been seen by 3 psychiatrists, people from the mental health team and liaison, and doctors for issues unrelated with mental health.

Yes an IMHA is independent and don't work for a hospital .

Just from what you've said , i was confused if you're on psych ward or general hospital ?
As legally section starts once psych bed
Is confirmed ?
You need 2 medical recommendations from 2 psychiatrists ( this is the MHA assessment) . This is valid for up to 10 days until they find bed but you're not actually sectioned until they do ** Then the AMHP finds a bed and assess you again to have final say once bed is found, then section starts.

**But they can use other powers to hold you for now such as 5(2) , 'common law' (although this is ambiguous) and there's also another part of the MHA they sometimes but rarely used and can't remember the number.
Most of the time they just say you're sectioned or that they'll call police /security if you leave since most people won't be aware of the laws (and neither are many medical staff tbf)

If you're on twitter/x , i follow this AMHP account and he is good at explaining the laws https://x.com/asifamhp?s=21

 

[blueming]

Yes an IMHA is independent and don't work for a hospital .

Just from what you've said , i was confused if you're on psych ward or general hospital ?
As legally section starts once psych bed
Is confirmed ?
You need 2 medical recommendations from 2 psychiatrists ( this is the MHA assessment) . This is valid for up to 10 days until they find bed but you're not actually sectioned until they do ** Then the AMHP finds a bed and assess you again to have final say once bed is found, then section starts.

**But they can use other powers to hold you for now such as 5(2) , 'common law' (although this is ambiguous) and there's also another part of the MHA they sometimes but rarely used and can't remember the number.
Most of the time they just say you're sectioned or that they'll call police /security if you leave since most people won't be aware of the laws (and neither are many medical staff tbf)

If you're on twitter/x , i follow this AMHP account and he is good at explaining the laws https://x.com/asifamhp?s=21

Wait is this really true, that sections only start in the psych ward? Does that mean I'm legally free to go? I'm definitely not on a 5(2), and I'm in a general hospital. They're having trouble finding a bed for me in a psychiatric hospital so they're keeping me here indefinitely.

 

[whywere]

On my 2nd attempt, when the cops took me to the hospital and one of the psychiatrists started asking me questions in a snappy demeaning tone, I told her that I was not going to answer anything, and I wanted out.

The next day and police officer came by the hospital with a HUGE bundle of papers for me and I had to sign saying that I received them. It turned out that the psychiatrist from the day before, did not like my answer and started a very long commitment stay in a state run center and I had to go to court over it. A few days after a police van came and 2 cops got me and took me to court.

I got a court appointed attorney, she was no help whatsoever and I went into the court room and me and the judge went round and round and finally I was told to leave the court room and I was taken back to the hospital. the next day I learned that I was NOT going to be commented and it was a relief.

I mentioned this, as I trust NO ONE in mental health. Say something that they do not like and BANG, I get a court fight to stay out of a long-term situation.

I am in the U.S. and my experience is that I 1st had a 72 hour hold and then if whoever thought it was needed, I stayed and was NEVER giving any date or time that I would get out. On my 2nd attempt after the court fight about a week later, a nurse came into my room and said I was going to be released that night. So I was givena short notice.

I will have you in my mind and heart and I wish you all the best. You are such a smart and kind soul.

Walter

 

[timetodie24]

Wait is this really true, that sections only start in the psych ward? Does that mean I'm legally free to go? I'm definitely not on a 5(2), and I'm in a general hospital. They're having trouble finding a bed for me in a psychiatric hospital so they're keeping me here indefinitely.

Technically it shouldn't start till then as the section application has to be made to a particular place . Usually a psych ward, i'm not sure if they can apply for it to start in a general hospital . If you haven't had paperwork and they keep changing things, my guess is that you are not currently detained under a s2 or s3 and could go theoretically . They probably have the medical recs but no approved application for bed, thus illegally detained currently . However, as the section hasn't started, that'll mean you can't appeal yet ( tribunal) and you arent entitled to IMHA yet. However, there will be an AMHp handling your case and you could ask to speak to them.

You could try asking under what legal framework are they holding you and that you are entitled to sse the paperwork . And threaten to leave if they don't provide this

However frustratingly they are likely to find some other legal power to hold you and police can return you if danger to yourself/others.

Mind have a legal line who can advice better than me on mental health law . Scroll down to bottom on here - https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/helplines/

I can only speak from my reading and my own experience of being on s2 . I spent 2 days held in a&e whilst they found bed but i didn't know I could techincally leave . However they wouldve called police if i did so I was too scared to .

I'm so sorry for what you're going through . It is horrible being in hospital and treated like a criminal but even worse when no idea what going on . And general hospitals really aren't geared to MH and Awful place to be

 

[alltoomuch2]

An advocate is one of the things I have asked for but still have not been given a clear answer on. They're not part of the team at the hospital, right? I've asked for one of them to come and speak with me but all the hospital does is send people from their own mental health team.



I think I'll definitely have to follow your advice and be more assertive! I've been trying to be very easygoing with the staff here since they have presumptions about mental health patients, but the result is just no clear answers and a hell of a lot of stress for me.



Please don't apologise, thank you, and everyone else, so much for trying to help! And I honestly have no idea. All I know is that I've been seen by 3 psychiatrists, people from the mental health team and liaison, and doctors for issues unrelated with mental health.

If you read the link it gives you all the details. It says you have a legal right to an advocate and they can't say there isn't one because the local authority has to provide one. Hope that helps at least a bit.

 

[letmegetout]

Wait is this really true, that sections only start in the psych ward? Does that mean I'm legally free to go? I'm definitely not on a 5(2), and I'm in a general hospital. They're having trouble finding a bed for me in a psychiatric hospital so they're keeping me here indefinitely.

Hey, firstly I'm sorry for what you are going through.
To clarify, you can be put on a section 2 as soon as you've got a bed do it can't be in a&e but can be in a general hospital if you on a ward or assessment ward that might be somewhere like acute medical unit AMU, clinical decisions unit CDU or an actual ward.