i want to die but religion holding me back

[misos9]

I really want to die but those guys keep saying about "if you commit suicide you will go to hell", now I'm just too afraid to commit suicide

 

[not_a_robot]

I can't think of anything to say that isn't sarcastic...

 

[Joannf]

I really want to die but those guys keep saying about "if you commit suicide you will go to hell", now I'm just too afraid to commit suicide

You seem to be a Catholic - think about conversion to Islam, I think hell in Islam is only temporary ;)
Personally, I have no problem with hells as I'm not delusional.

 

[Shamana]

I really want to die but those guys keep saying about "if you commit suicide you will go to hell", now I'm just too afraid to commit suicide

How many would kill themselves if they said "If you kill yourself, you will go to heaven"?

 

[Pupuce]

I really want to die but those guys keep saying about "if you commit suicide you will go to hell", now I'm just too afraid to commit suicide

It might not help at all, but there is no reason to believe hell exist. There is no reason to believe anything exist after our deaths. It's just easier to fool people with "it's gonna be worse if you suicide" than having them be happy with their lives.
Besides why would hell need to exist to begin with? To punish bad people who shouldn't exist by the logic of God being omni-benevolent? Hell makes no sense. Religion doesn't either. It just wants to control you. So the best gift that you could make to yourself is to act towards correcting whatever is wrong at the moment by the way you wish to. Those people aren't trustworthy because they talk out of ignorance. No one has any proof of hell existing, hell (pun intended) we have more reason to think it doesn't.

Sorry if I sound harsh or judgemental, or incoherent. That wasn't the point.

I can't think of anything to say that isn't sarcastic...

Yeah i rewrote 3 times my messages to be the less mocking possible.

 

[not_a_robot]

We are already in Hell, OP. It's just full of pretty mirages, to trick us into hoping, til the rock roll down to crush us again.

Absurdism - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Worndown]

I really want to die but those guys keep saying about "if you commit suicide you will go to hell", now I'm just too afraid to commit suicide

How do they know? "People" say a lot of things to push their beliefs and interests. It is a tragedy that this world could offer no better solutions for you.
And..what is hell? Endless torment and suffering? I think you have that already covered.

 

[Rukia]

Suffering is not endless on this Earth...Death is the way out...
I also fear hell...There is no proof but many accounts of people who were there or saw it...Of course we can dismiss it as sickness, hallucinations so on...

And hell in islam is eternal as well...

 

[Shamana]

I am a buddhist and karmic consequences of suicide on the afterlife is one of my main fears against comitting suicde. A few ago's i was abusing MDMA and my brain was getting fried and there where these dark demonic shadowy beings just everywhere in my rroom trying to posess and drag me down to hell.

Some months later I good hell realms the first picture contained the beings trying to drag me down there and posess my body. The most enlightened women told me that the karma of killing yourself is the same as killing another. And then she told me "Alexander you're going to hell".

When I was in psyc ward I manage go smuggle in heroin and I took a large dose of curiosity and hallucinated being complete surround of Angel of death with black wings welcoming me to hell.

I also have an enlightened friend who saved one of her friends that had comitted suicide and was beingg pulled down to hell in the bardo-

 

[Jean Améry]

I am a buddhist and karmic consequences of suicide on the afterlife is one of my main fears against comitting suicde.

If only there was any actual evidence of any of it. In that regard buddhism isn't any better than christianity or islam: it's all hearsay and arguments from authority.

Since you are a buddhist: I've always wondered how the theory of non-ego could be reconciled with the theory of reincarnation. If there is no 'I' that reincarnates why should anyone care?

 

[LogicalThinker-527]

You seem to be a Catholic - think about conversion to Islam, I think hell in Islam is only temporary ;)
Personally, I have no problem with hells as I'm not delusional.

it's not temporary in Islam. I too was raised by conservative parents and im not religious at all now but the things i was taught when i was young still haunt me,
it's ingrained in me, deep to the subconscious level, I just think .. what if everything they say is right and i suffer for eternity?
I really hate that.

 

[Shamana]

If only there was any actual evidence of any of it. In that regard buddhism isn't any better than christianity or islam: it's all hearsay and arguments from authority.

Since you are a buddhist: I've always wondered how the theory of non-ego could be reconciled with the theory of reincarnation. If there is no 'I' what reincarnates and why should anyone care?

It's the delusion of an I that is reborn. Just as it is mind that is current incarnated it will also be this stream of mind experiencing rebirth.

Hells in buddhism are not created by some god to send you their punish. Hells in buddhism manifest because heavy negative karma and it is by committing heavy neagtive deeds that one is reborn in a hell ream. It's not creation of buddha's nor do they souls there.

 

[Jean Améry]

It's the delusion of an I that is reborn.

How can something that is immaterial (a delusion) be reborn and how this does happen exactly? I know the buddhist mythology but it has the same problem als all religions: it simply cannot be proven.

I used to have sympathy for buddhism untill I realized it's nothing more than a more sophisticated version of theism. Living according to a certain code might help, meditation does help for many and I like the pessimistic outlook on life (life is indeed suffering) but the whole concept of karma is unprovable hogwash.

 

[Joannf]

it's not temporary in Islam. I too was raised by conservative parents and im not religious at all now but the things i was taught when i was young still haunt me,
it's ingrained in me, deep to the subconscious level, I just think .. what if everything they say is right and i suffer for eternity?
I really hate that.

I think in Islam, you're only in hell till the resurrection, when everybody goes to paradise - while Christians are in hell forever.
Is that discrimination ?

 

[bacardirum]

Let's imagine God does exist, would he would punish you for removing yourself from a life which is full of sin, does not make sense, if anything, if you kill yourself, the almighty one will reward you for leaving.

 

[Joannf]

How can something that is immaterial (a delusion) be reborn and how this does happen exactly? I know the buddhist mythology but it has the same problem als all religions: it simply cannot be proven.

I used to have sympathy for buddhism untill I realized it's nothing more than a more sophisticated version of theism. Living according to a certain code might help, meditation does help for many and I like the pessimistic outlook on life (life is indeed suffering) but the whole concept of karma is unprovable hogwash.

Well at in Buddhism there's no father/mother figure, which is probably why the Abrahamics are more poular as humans love to have an omnipotent parent, wise beyond means, who thinks exactly like a human primate, and therefore understands them (because they resemble he/she/it one by one).
As human delusions are of course immaterial, their major forte is that they cannot be DISproven, so people are free to believe in them and be happy primates.

Let's imagine God does exist, would he would punish you for removing yourself from a life which is full of sin, does not make sense, if anything, if you kill yourself, the almighty one will reward you for leaving.

Absolutely ! Did you ever notice that God thinks exactly like a human being ?
So...

 

[LogicalThinker-527]

I think in Islam, you're only in hell till the resurrection, when everybody goes to paradise - while Christians are in hell forever.
Is that discrimination ?

it's you're dead until the resurrection then you either go to heaven or hell forever, that's the version i was taught.
I just wish whoever came up with these religions was somewhat empathetic, the idea of making some people suffer and then punish them when they
do the only thing that takes them out of their agony is so appalling to me.

 

[bacardirum]

Was that version 2.0. or 2.1, not sure I downloaded the update.

 

[Joannf]

it's you're dead until the resurrection then you either go to heaven or hell forever, that's the version i was taught.

No I really don't think so - but I have to check on that, I just read it somewhere.
Muslims lie trying to talk the kaffirs 'round ;)

 

[HGL91]

Don't worry. Hell isn't a place under the earth's surface, there's no heaven in the clouds, and Eve didn't come from Adam's rib.

I'm pretty sure that based on all the science classes I took in college for Nursing school and the use of critical thinking, that when you die, you are just as conscious as you were before you were born. Matter cannot be destroyed, so our bodies will become one with the earth, and our brains will be shut off, just like other things that are electrical.

 

[Darkhaven]

Death is itself our ultimate punishment.
It just wouldn't make sense to condemn people to an eternity of suffering and it would be against God's words to Adam after they sinned: "Dust you are and to dust you will return". If Adam simply passed out then there is no base to sustain that we will receive a bigger punishment than the original sinners; If Adam was indeed sent to a fiery hell then God would have been lying.
From what i know from the Bible, God can be considered a lot of things but He doesn't seem to be a lying being. He always seems to keep his promises.
Death is like the coin we have to trade for our sins: We live, we sin and then we die and with that our "debt" with our Creator is payed.
If you have a Bible just check: Genesis 3:19; 37:35 and Romans 6:7.
Oh and before someone mentions, i am well aware that all i have written will sound like complete bollocks to atheists or non Christians, even i have some serious doubts, but OP seems to be a believer, so...

 

[Jean Améry]

Well at in Buddhism there's no father/mother figure, which is probably why the Abrahamics are more poular as humans love to have an omnipotent parent, wise beyond means, who thinks exactly like a human primate, and therefore understands them (because they resemble he/she/it one by one).

That seems like a reasonable explanation. Another might be the western colonization of large parts of the world which introduced christianity along with islamic conquests. Cultural bias and indoctrination in early youth are a major if not the reasons why most people believe in a certain religion.

Given that his parent figure never seems to answer prayers (grant wishes) in a way that clearly eclipses chance you'd have to wonder just how stupid most people must be. Why would one care whether there is a god when he doesn't seem to interfere one way or the other in human affairs?

I simply don't understand what would be comforting about having a master in heaven who looks down upon you, knows everything you're doing and will punish you with an eternity in hell if you mess up. If the god in the bible/torah is a loving father I'm Napoleon. To me believers must be masochists and natural submissives yet they clearly gain something from their particular religion. Marx was right about his view of religion as opium for the masses: religion dulls the pain of existence and offers hope where there is none. It offers an explanation for suffering and pretends we really do matter in the end. Which of course is complete horse manure.

 

[Shamana]

How can something that is immaterial (a delusion) be reborn and how this does happen exactly? I know the buddhist mythology but it has the same problem als all religions: it simply cannot be proven.

I used to have sympathy for buddhism untill I realized it's nothing more than a more sophisticated version of theism. Living according to a certain code might help, meditation does help for many and I like the pessimistic outlook on life (life is indeed suffering) but the whole concept of karma is unprovable hogwash.

Rebirth (Buddhism) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It is said that as long our mind is not liberated from the ego illusion we crave rebirth and embodiment when we die.

According to the Bardo Thol when we die for real our mind will experience it's own vast limitless nature. Because this experience is so traumatic the mind creates a subtle body that I guess you could call a ghost body, where in you look in the prime of your life without illness or old age. Then the winds karma blow you toward your parents having sex and you are sucked into the womb, when the sperm enters the egg. When you are reborn, you have another name, a different body and create a new ego illusion.

 

[Darkhaven]

Rebirth (Buddhism) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It is said that as long our mind is liberated from the ego illusion we crave rebirth and embodiment when we die.

According to the Bardo Thol when we die for real our mind will experience it's own vast limitless nature. Because this experience is so traumatic the mind creates a subtle body that I guess you could call a ghost body, where in you look in the prime of your life without illness or old age. Then the winds karma blow you toward your parents having sex and you are sucked into the womb, when the sperm enters the egg. When you are reborn, you have another name, a different body and create a new ego illusion.

But if we are basically living in a loophole that constantly gives us new bodies to live again after we die, how was the first human being created? Who created him?

 

[Shamana]

But if we are basically living in a loophole that constantly gives us new bodies to live again after we die, how was the first human being created? Who created him?

That's usually called an imponderable. Rebirth in buddhism has been going for beginningless time and there are infinite universes too.

 

[Jean Améry]

It is said that as long our mind is liberated from the ego illusion we crave rebirth and embodiment when we die.

According to the Bardo Thol when we die for real our mind will experience it's own vast limitless nature. Because this experience is so traumatic the mind creates a subtle body that I guess you could call a ghost body, where in you look in the prime of your life without illness or old age. Then the winds karma blow you toward your parents having sex and you are sucked into the womb, when the sperm enters the egg. When you are reborn, you have another name, a different body and create a new ego illusion.

That's quite a story yet it's nothing more than an hypothesis, isn't it?

 

[Laststop]

I really want to die but those guys keep saying about "if you commit suicide you will go to hell", now I'm just too afraid to commit suicide

It was about 10 years ago I stopped being a Christian. One night laying in the dark in bed I realized I only believed because I was told to from the age I was old enough to start being programed. Everything about the people (my family) that did the programing ran against what they claimed to be about. But beyond that, being able to easily read pages, and watch videos, of people who have good solid arguments on the Internet about why it's all bullshit made me into the atheist I am today. And here's one thing to think about. Whatever you do, according to all those in the know (lol), God knows every minuet detail about everything past, present, and future. How can anything you do be the wrong thing? That's what you were always going to do. He knew it, and you'll be dealt with accordingly. How he could not know that Adam and Eve would eat the apple, find out about it, and get pissed, or look on the world in anger and flood it because it wasn't working the way he wanted and expected, I have no idea. So, you can stick to what you feel is expected of you and live, go against it and deal with the outcome, or maybe start questioning it. Hell, what the reality of it is, is the truth. Not matter what anyone thinks. I don't want to go to hell. If it's real, it is. We all have to deal with that. Or not. I feel like I'm going if it is no matter what.

 

[Empty Smile]

Next time one tells you that you'll go to hell for it, tell them you want to see where in the bible it states this. Bet they will come up with all kinds of excuses on why it's the greatest sin against god.

 

[Shamana]

That's quite a story yet it's nothing more than an hypothesis, isn't it?

Yes this is an teaching of Padmasambhava who was a Buddha who taught it from his omniscience. It is many senses are hypothesis, but in buddhism becoming extremely clairvoyant is one of fruits on the path to buddhahood. So you got say that if you have super clairvoyance, you can see what happens to people's souls when they die. It is not really a thing you can test in a lab. I understand that atheists and nihilists don't believe in clairvoyance either, but I would just that it is because they have not met geniuenly clairvoyant people.

 

[Pupuce]

Yes this is an teaching of Padmasambhava who was a Buddha who taught it from his omniscience. It is many senses are hypothesis, but in buddhism becoming extremely clairvoyant is one of fruits on the path to buddhahood. So you got say that if you have super clairvoyance, you can see what happens to people's souls when they die. It is not really a thing you can test in a lab. I understand that atheists and nihilists don't believe in clairvoyance either, but I would just that it is because they have not met geniuenly clairvoyant people.

If buddhism doesn't have any God, (i think it doesn't, might be wrong) that means buddhist are, by definition, atheists. So some atheists at least believe in clairvoyance.
Meeting genuinely clairvoyant people will be complicated as nothing is genuine if it can't be tested in labs, from science standards.