I just want to Escape! (Personal beliefs and theories about reincarnation, afterlives, etc.)

[Exitwings]

I can make a thread just to prattle on in, right? There's so much I want to talk about wrt deactivating the meatsuit and multiverse and metaphysical shenanigans, and unfortunately I can't talk about much of it within my subculture community that would be interested and understand a lot of it because, well, I can't elude to the fact that I'm planning on leaving. They'd just freak out.

I also don't want to make it too obvious who I am, on the off chance that somehow someone would actually figure that out and... honestly idk what would happen, why were you at the devil's sacrament, etc. But still. (Not trying to say I'm well known or anything lol, just, you know, I'm constantly online and an open book and have talked a lot about myself in many places.)

Anyway quick introduction so you don't gotta go through my post history:

• I'm chronically ill, in severe chronic pain among other low quality of life symptoms. It's progressive and surgeons could fix it but they don't wanna.
• My dysphoria is so so bad. Not just gender. So not only does the body feel awful and not work but I hate it. (Note: I do my best to take care of the body, because my priority at all times is to feel less awful). It's like body horror. I have no wings and I must fly.
• I don't "want to die", I just need out of this flesh prison at least, if not this specific universe too. The plan to CTB and the following are not a leap of faith, but a hop of desperation. (Imagine I'm on a slowly, inconsistently crumbling cliff and everything forward is shrouded in fog, and there's wolves prowling at my tail.)

I'm a Somethingist, meaning I feel like there must be more than the mundane that we can perceive and prove. After all, human perception is very limited. I have a hypothesis that's a framework that makes sense to me, but I don't "believe" it's the "truth". (Also, I don't think everyone's realities have to be the same. So this framework might be True for me, but not others. How? I don't know, it's too complicated for me to really get, but I think it's possible.)

Disclaimer: I don't care if I'm "crazy" or whatever.

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I figure the possibilities of what will happen once I'm free of this meatsuit are: (No particular order)

1. Nothing. Oblivion. Consciousness is a quirk of biology and once the biology ceases so does the person.

• Personal belief of probability: unlikely.
• How I feel about it: *shrug emoticon* fine, it's not like I have better options and it's not like I'll ever know.

2. "Heaven" or equivalent perfect/paradise afterlife. Simulation of Goals, with a ton of additional positive "impossible" features and removal of unnecessary struggles and negatives (like capitalism).

• Personal belief of probability: 50/50. I think it's possible The Powers That Be might want to keep souls contained so we don't wander and complicate things, and that the best trap for that is someplace we won't want to leave.
• How I feel about it: Acceptable. Second best option. I'm simply not in a place mentally or emotionally or whatever where it matters if it's "real" or not. It'd be infinitely preferable to my current hell. Maybe in two hundred years I'll have an existential crisis or whatever.

3. Wishes Granted immediately: waking up in my destination universe with new life already set up.

• Personal belief of probability: very unlikely. Would require a Higher Being to Do without my interference (beyond Hoping and Praying and Yelling In My Head in an attempt to communicate.)
• How I feel about it: Absolute best case scenario.

4. Natural Reincarnation in random universe.

• Personal belief of probability: very likely.
• How I feel about it: >:[ please no. I'll take it but worst of the fine I'll take it options.

5. Awareness while Outside Universes. Will have to Do Things to reach Goals.

• Personal belief of probability: Waking up Outside Universes: Somewhat likely. (My current hypothesis of my history is that I'm a glitched soul who is Aware and Somewhat Autonomous while not incarnated.) Being able to Do Anything to Reach Goals: unlikely. (I'm still only a tiny 3 dimensional soul with zero power.)
• How I feel about it: kinda exhausted ngl but I'm kinda expecting it and I'll figure it out from there, as I don't know anything about it right now here.

6. "Hell"/Punishment Afterlife.

• Personal belief of probability: Extremely unlikely. I just can't imagine The Powers That Be / Higher Dimensional Beings / "gods" would be *that* cruel for no damn reason. At worst I assume they're neutral/amoral/don't care.
• How I feel about it: Obviously I hate it. But I find the idea impossible so.

7. This Life was a simulation and I wake up Outside/in the "Real World".

• Personal belief of probability: unlikely.
• How I feel about it: idk lol.

8. This Life was a Punishment simulation and I wake up Outside/in "Hell"/etc.

• Personal belief of probability: between 50/50 and unlikely. This Life has been a very weird balance of extremely unlucky but also lucky enough to be alive and not homeless, so sometimes it seems like Someone could be controlling things to keep me suffering.
• How I feel about it: Bad. Afraid. If I manage to escape the simulation then I haven't actually finished my sentence or whatever. But also in this scenario I believe that escaping the simulation would be impossible anyway, "They" just wouldn't allow it.

9. IDK/OTHER

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So basically I'm going to find a way to deactivate and untether from this body (which is difficult goddamn). I'm hoping for option 3 (Wishes Granted) or 2 ("Heaven"). I'm mentally prepared for 5 (Bug Scurrying inside the Hardware of The Matrix).
As I can't really prepare for any of these options, for now I'm just Visualizing and making myself Believe, whole-heartedly, that I Will Wake Up Home. I don't really know anything else I can do. Conviction is probably all I can take with me. If I point my nose homeward and get ready to fly, maybe I'll get there.

Thanks for reading/letting me talk.

[editing reasons at the moment are for formatting.]

 

[KillingPain267]

I believe in the Christian physical resurrection where those who trusted Jesus as their savior will rise from the graves at judgment day and then live forever in a physical body enhanced to be immortal, painless, sorrowless and sinless. They will live in a new universe where the laws of physics are changed to allow this, and there will be no decay or death in nature either. Those who in this life did not believe in Jesus for the forgiveness of sins will also rise physically, but they will then be judged and cast into hell. But there they will perish, meaning they will be dead again and never rise anymore. So they will be unconscious forever, not be tortured consciously (that is a misinterpretation of metaphors in the text). So I don't believe that Scripture teaches that humans have immaterial "souls" that leave the body at death and live on consciously in "heaven" or "hell". When I die (possibly soon by suicide) I will be dead and unconscious until I wake up in my restored immortal physical body after judgment day. No intermediate state as a ghost or "soul" in "heaven". Consciousness is a product of a functioning brain, not immaterial "souls" (soul in Greek is psyche and just meant life originally until Plato came with pagan philosophy).

So the choice in the biblical text correctly interpreted is to live again forever physically (but without pain and in eternal bliss probably similar to being high on heroin constantly but without long term consequences), or to reject Jesus and be brutally executed and experiencing death again at judgment day but then never be conscious again after that (called annihilationism).

To give terms you can look up, it's "anthropoligical physicalism" and "annihilationism"/"conditional immortality").

This is just my beliefs. Maybe something you can think about and determine if it's unlikely or not and add it to number 9 if you like. Your list is very interesting.

 

[Exitwings]

I believe in the Christian physical resurrection where those who trusted Jesus as their savior will rise from the graves at judgment day and then live forever in a physical body enhanced to be immortal, painless, sorrowless and sinless. They will live in a new universe where the laws of physics are changed to allow this, and there will be no decay or death in nature either. Those who in this life did not believe in Jesus for the forgiveness of sins will also rise physically, but they will then be judged and cast into hell. But there they will perish, meaning they will be dead again and never rise anymore. So they will be unconscious forever, not be tortured consciously (that is a misinterpretation of metaphors in the text). So I don't believe that Scripture teaches that humans have immaterial "souls" that leave the body at death and live on consciously in "heaven" or "hell". When I die (possibly soon by suicide) I will be dead and unconscious until I wake up in my restored immortal physical body after judgment day. No intermediate state as a ghost or "soul" in "heaven". Consciousness is a product of a functioning brain, not immaterial "souls" (soul in Greek is psyche and just meant life originally until Plato came with pagan philosophy).

So the choice in the biblical text correctly interpreted is to live again forever physically (but without pain and in eternal bliss probably similar to being high on heroin constantly but without long term consequences), or to reject Jesus and be brutally executed and experiencing death again at judgment day but then never be conscious again after that (called annihilationism).

To give terms you can look up, it's "anthropoligical physicalism" and "annihilationism"/"conditional immortality").

This is just my beliefs. Maybe something you can think about and determine if it's unlikely or not and add it to number 9 if you like. Your list is very interesting.

Neat! ^_^;

Thank you, I won't. I just don't find a reason to add ones that are completely outside my personal reality (especially since the list would get ridiculously long if I started including all the religions I could possibly find). The 9 is mostly for "possibilities I can't even conceptualize because I have no frame of reference while I am currently confined to this plane of a reality."

If you're curious the "Heaven" I'm invisioning is vaguely reminiscent of the end of The Good Place and the Heaven in the webcomic Housepets. It has nothing to do with Christianity; I'm just using the word because people might kinda understand what I mean. That's also why I'm using quotation marks.

For me soul and consciousness are the same thing. They're synonyms. It's like, you don't have a soul, you are a soul, you have a body. Does that make sense?

(I'm a little confused about why people are supposed to be resurrected and then immediately die again? Wouldn't it be easier to just... leave them? Brutally executed seems a bit unnecessarily cruel of Jesus/God/Etc.)

 

[Hotsackage]

There is some form of reincarnation which you hypothesized or there is basically just ZONK after we go. There is actually more evidence for reincarnation, then anyone actually knows. I don't know if it's a good thing, I'm just helping you hypothesize here.

 

[Exitwings]

There is some form of reincarnation which you hypothesized or there is basically just ZONK after we go. There is actually more evidence for reincarnation, then anyone actually knows. I don't know if it's a good thing, I'm just helping you hypothesize here.

I'm curious about what evidence you say there is for reincarnation? If you mean anecdotal... the subculture I mentioned has had many many discussions and insights, both personal sharing and skeptical, about the nature of how "human" brains make memories, so I'm aware of past life memories and such. Is there another kind of evidence you could point me to?

 

[Hotsackage]

Look up dr ian Stevenson, children recalling things from past lives, it's pretty wild. And another form of spiritual teaching, but it's a complicated case.

 

[Kali_Yuga13]

Cool post. I really like the label of "Somethingist" :D

I've gone through many similar rabbit holes and here are some of my options:

1. Quantum Immortality -

• Probability - I think as much as 50%
• Feelings - Only desirable if I can backward jump and keep enough memory or intuition to make better decisions

2. Layered bardo/underworld

• Probability - 50%, practically every non-Abrahamic religion has a structured underworld system of rewards and punishments. Usually acts as a weigh station for a next incarnation.
• Feelings - Mixed feelings, I hope I can gain favor of the gods of the underworld and they give me a boon if true.

3. Astral Prison - The Moon is the white light people see when they have a NDE. It's actually a giant bug zapper for souls that memory wipes you after astral imposters get you to negotiate and consent to another life of suffering as part of a cosmic energy harvesting machine run by an imposter god that goes by many names and generally Saturnian in nature.

• Probability - As much as 75% I'm afraid.
• Feelings - This is almost a worst case scenario. It takes lots of inner work to prepare for this ultimate showdown against the ruler of this ancient system if true. The Gnostics did say that you can lay claim to your divine heritage to a plane above this system but the astral minions will do their best to guilt trip, coheres and tempt one into coming back to "get it right this time".

4. Oblivion

• Probability - It's hard to speculate on this one. If true, it won't matter. It wont feel like "rest" as there would be no experience of a non-resting state to compare against it.
• Feelings- This would be akin to being put under anesthesia and never waking up. Ideal for some people. The thing is that if there is an organizational structure to the universe, something like the Boltzmann Brain hypothesis or quantum immortality could blip you back into sentience anywhere or anytime and It would feel like no time elapsed in the same way that most people don't remember a time before birth. All of a sudden, here we are. Unless there's a preplanning stage, it seems risky to come back and we'll still have to deal with the mundane and painful aspects of life if reborn in this realm.

5. Ancestor Simulation

• When we die we awaken is some type of "more real" place with the realization that our lives have been played as avatars in an ancestor simulation. Perhaps we did this along with others in a "soul group". I'm not sure why we would choose to do this for any other reason besides extreme boredom with having unlimited powers in this other realm and wanting to feel immense suffering for fun.
• Probability - meh
• Feelings - meh, I'm over it. I'd like to put down the controller and power down the console. :D

Summary - Because I actually entertain these ideas, I don't take ctb lightly. I'd hate to overlook some aspect of this life and have to make up for it somehow after death. If any of us were certain we'd probably not need this site to compare our thoughts on the matter. I don't want to "die" either. I just feel stuck in this life, a prisoner of circumstances and fate. What I want is my agency.

 

[KillingPain267]

For me soul and consciousness are the same thing. They're synonyms. It's like, you don't have a soul, you are a soul, you have a body. Does that make sense?

Absolutely. This is what I believe the word "soul" in the Bible is ACTUALLY supposed to mean. If you study the underlying Hebrew "nephesh" often translated as soul and the Greek psyche often translated as either soul or life. But it means then that consciousness is a PHYSICAL phenomenon and product of a functioning brain (so life or consciousness or "soul" ceases when the brain dies from either destruction or lack of oxygen). Thus the only way to live or have an afterlife is if your body and brain is restored from the dust (and it will according to Scripture.

(I'm a little confused about why people are supposed to be resurrected and then immediately die again? Wouldn't it be easier to just... leave them? Brutally executed seems a bit unnecessarily cruel of Jesus/God/Etc.)

Because of showing divine judgment of sin. I'm sure some people would like to see someone like Hitler not escape by suicide but rather have him dangle in the Nuremburg trials or worse.

Think of it like this: a prisoner on death row getting the chair in a month. But before that, a fellow inmate strangles him. The government who sentenced him to death row would not be satisfied and think "oh well, he got the death he deserved one way or another". No, in fact they don't just leave prisoners to kill each other, but PRESERVE the man on death row, and may even punish the strangler inmate for murder. Why? Because the electric chair execution was supposed to be a show, that the government doesn't tolerate whatever he did (I don't support the government having death penalties, by the way, it's just an analogy).

Yes, Jesus/God may seem cruel in this interpretation, but remember what the common tradition teaches: that the burning continues FOREVER. That's way more cruel.

 

[divinemistress36]

In short I believe we go to some other dimension after we die and conciousness lives on I hate to say heaven cause that sounds to bibical. I think we came here to learn and experience but doesnt mean its a pleasant experience and its up to us if we decide to ctb no punishment . I do believe in spirits and maybe higher powers of some sorts based on some accurate psychic readings I got that nobody could have known and I believe reincarnation is a possibilty. I dont think our human monkey brain can know whats really out there

 

[msesis]

Honestly I have a hard time believing in an afterlife. Except maybe reincarnation. It just doesn't make sense to me. Think about how many "souls" have been alive at this point. Every time someone is born, that's a new soul, right? There's just no way every living human ever lived is still out there somewhere. That's what, quadrillions? And then what about animals? They have souls too. When do we draw the line? What about bugs? Plants? Bacteria? There's nowhere for all of these souls to go... Unless we reincarnate and are "reused" so to speak. But that just seems too good to be true. It's.. probably oblivion, honestly.

 

[acey]

There is some form of reincarnation which you hypothesized or there is basically just ZONK after we go. There is actually more evidence for reincarnation, then anyone actually knows. I don't know if it's a good thing, I'm just helping you hypothesize here.

Could you share what "evidence" you are referring to? I assume it's all hypothetical regardless, but I'm curious. I'd been searching all my life and so far all my experiences and research have only led me to believe stronger that there is only physical existence, and I hate it.

Honestly I have a hard time believing in an afterlife. Except maybe reincarnation. It just doesn't make sense to me. Think about how many "souls" have been alive at this point. Every time someone is born, that's a new soul, right? There's just no way every living human ever lived is still out there somewhere. That's what, quadrillions? And then what about animals? They have souls too. When do we draw the line? What about bugs? Plants? Bacteria? There's nowhere for all of these souls to go... Unless we reincarnate and are "reused" so to speak. But that just seems too good to be true. It's.. probably oblivion, honestly.

Even if true, the current human population of the world is about as much as existed with all time combined before (all people who died to date), so in that case it would mean there are a lot of "stagnant" souls. In the case you assume earthly existence is not the "main" type of existence, it can make sense. Like people who believe this is some kind of trial, learning experience or similar. Personally I still think it's all unlikely and are just things we come up with that make sense when looking at the world through our human experience, but thats just my opinion.