Venting I find it insensitive when people complain about suffering people ctb by train

[FuneralCry]

This is because after all we exist in this anti-suicide society where people are denied more peaceful method options leaving them with no choice but to resort to brutal ones like this. It's so horrible how people cannot just easily die in peace when they want and I bet that if they could barely anyone would even resort to methods like the train.

I just find it so insensitive when people complain about suicidal people using this method when the thing to complain about is the pro-lifers, it's even worse when pro-life people complain about this method used when they are the ones who are against allowing people a right to die in peace in the first place.

Sorry but for many people methods like that is the only way to escape from this existence they were burdened with and I admire those who ctb that way for having the courage.
People go on about traumatising the driver but what about the person who was forced to exist in this hellish reality in the first place with no right to die in peace.
I despise this anti-suicide society so much, it disgusts me how people have to struggle to die so much despite the fact that existence is nothing but suffering and we are all just destined to die anyway.

 

[Myforevercharlie]

Seriously?

You keep going on about you're forced to live in hell, but it's oke to drag someone else into it so you can escape?



Maybe watch some documentaries about how it's like for them.

 

[Soohey]

I get what you're trying to say,people wouldn't have to do such awful things if there were more accessible and human ways of dying,it's really sad that some people have no other option than to go trough this kinda plans to find peace.
That being said,I don't think it's "insensitive" at all to not recommend ruining other peoples lives just to free yours.You can dress it up as much as you can,but essentially that's what you do when you use this method.

 

[Meditation guide]

People don't think about trains having a conductor when they do that in my opinion. I mean it doesn't occur to them probably. (please don't misinterpret this as me being ok with it, as I know someone will do.)

 

[betternever2havbeen]

I thought you were against this method as well FC from your posts? I wouldn't blame anyone for resorting to that method or call it selfish etc. but if someone told me they were gonna do that I'd point out the effect it is gonna have on others. I mean I'm sure the person has already considered that of course, but still it's a horrible thing to put the train driver through so I can't really agree with it.

 

[CRT Seal TV]

People don't think about trains having a conductor when they do that in my opinion. I mean it doesn't occur to them probably. (please don't misinterpret this as me being ok with it, as I know someone will do.)

This is the way I feel. Whenever I stand on a train platform and imagine jumping off. I don't think about the train conductor or the passangers who get traumatised. I think of the way my body will be instantly vaporised and splattered everywhere. I also couldn't care what happens after I am dead. I'll be dead.

 

[Lullaby]

People go on about traumatising the driver but what about the person who was forced to exist in this hellish reality in the first place with no right to die in peace.

They'd both be victims in this scenarios…

When you have zero options or any other resources, I can't fault people for doing whatever they can to escape, even if it's extreme.

But if you have a choice, taking that into consideration is important, I think.

I deal with horrible mental and emotional anguish, and I wouldn't want to transfer that over to someone else because they were at the wrong place, at the wrong time.

I've been in group therapy with really good people who have been effected by witnessing stuff like that, it sucks.

 

[StandardOtter]

I find it hard to understand why people are so against it compared to other methods to be honest. I totally understand it's traumatizing for the driver but I don't understand why that's worse than being found by a hotel cleaner, or dog walker or child playing in the woods. I watched the video myforevercharlie posted and I feel terrible for that driver, but it sounds like he was the one who found the body and the driver of the train that killed him didn't even notice. So what's different about that method? Was the body more gruesome than a jumper? Than the people using a rope and a car to decapitate themselves?

I'm not saying it isn't different, but I don't get it, and a cynical part of me thinks it's just that there's no economic incentive to make documentaries about the minimum wage cleaners traumatized by what they found. A stopped train and a blocked track loses a lot of people a lot of money in a way that other methods don't. Trying to find a way to do it without hurting anyone else is a large part of what I've been focusing on recently, and it just feels impossible. I'd genuinely like to know why people think other methods are kinder because at this point it's starting to feel like just another thing I have to give up on.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I agree that it's terrible that people feel forced into this situation in the first place. I do still struggle with the train method though to be honest. Even with jumping- yes- it could still traumatize someone to see that but- it was still very much that person's own actions that lead to their death there. I don't know with the train method. The driver probably must realise there's nothing they could have done in time but it could very well be horrific for them. Would you be ok with just casually running someone over one day? Even if it wasn't your fault? Similar to the death by cop method- it's getting someone to unwittingly murder you. They may be fine with that but- they may not at all.

I guess I struggle with the whole- my life is shit and people are shit- so- I'm going to possibly mess up this random person's life and not worry about it. Ultimately- there are other options- there's jumping, hanging. It isn't actually the case that someone has no other choice. They choose that and I guess either don't consider the possible consequences, they just think everyone is cold hearted and won't care or- they don't care.

It's difficult because I realise some people are utterly desperate and I agree- it's our governments who back us into this corner. Still- it likely won't be them who is affected. It won't be them who tries to slam on the brakes too late or who has to walk the tracks picking up body parts. The problem with it is- it likely hurts the wrong people.

 

[betternever2havbeen]

@StandardOtter I found that video unclear as to what exactly happened as well but even if he wasn't the one who hit him it's testament to the effect it still had on him-especially since he'd seen him and managed to stop on a previous occasion. It's not a method I could do regardless (I can't see being able to physically make myself do it) but people that do I expect they don't think the train driver is going to feel guilt. Number one because the person willingly chose to do it and number two because in most cases the driver couldn't have stopped and prevented it anyway.

Unfortunately there is often a lot of guilt and what ifs when someone passes away from suicide and it might just be human nature that the train driver is going to be traumatized and guilt-ridden even though it is absolutely not his fault in any way.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I find it hard to understand why people are so against it compared to other methods to be honest. I totally understand it's traumatizing for the driver but I don't understand why that's worse than being found by a hotel cleaner, or dog walker or child playing in the woods. I watched the video myforevercharlie posted and I feel terrible for that driver, but it sounds like he was the one who found the body and the driver of the train that killed him didn't even notice. So what's different about that method? Was the body more gruesome than a jumper? Than the people using a rope and a car to decapitate themselves?

I'm not saying it isn't different, but I don't get it, and a cynical part of me thinks it's just that there's no economic incentive to make documentaries about the minimum wage cleaners traumatized by what they found. A stopped train and a blocked track loses a lot of people a lot of money in a way that other methods don't. Trying to find a way to do it without hurting anyone else is a large part of what I've been focusing on recently, and it just feels impossible. I'd genuinely like to know why people think other methods are kinder because at this point it's starting to feel like just another thing I have to give up on.

I do agree with you on the economic side of things. I'm sure that's part of it. Also- I agree- all suicides are likely to be unpleasant for someone. As such- it isn't our fault we are having to do this when we aren't provided alternatives- assisted suicide in a clinic which would reduce a lot of this.

However- I'd argue there are major differences with the train. It's similar to the death by cop in my eyes- it's getting someone to unwittingly murder you. Plus, I'm sure it can be terribly gruesome.

Yes- I agree- it can't be good for hotel workers but people often plan to block the entrance to the room and put up signs not to enter but to call the authorities. You'd hope hotel staff would be briefed on this kind of thing too. Again- not great for the police either but- at least they know what they're getting in to with that kind of job. Maybe you could argue that train drivers should be too but I think it's kind of different- please take on board that you might kill someone today- now go out and have a great day!

Plus- people tend to use hotels because they don't want their loved ones to find them. I don't know. I do understand people's frustration but I feel like we have an opportunity to make our suicides as least traumatic as possible. We can either go the route of- this world's shit and I'm going to be just as shit to random strangers or- this world's shit but I'm going to at least try not to make it worse for other people. That said- I can't really blame people if they are truly desperate.

 

[LastFlowers]

I agree.

People negatively affect other people every moment of every day in every corner of this earth, suddenly we're going to draw the line at someone's most desperate hour?
Demanding consideration from them when they likely reached the point they did because they were not considered- to a far more egregious degree, perhaps over the course of a lifetime?

Personally if I was a train conductor, I would expect that this would come with the territory, that these people were merely using the locomotive as their method, not meaning to cause conflict with anyone else.
(But even if they did mean to..I can hardly blame anyone who is brought to that amount of vitriol via suffering. Just look at the state of things…why are we expecting suffering, suicidal people to be saints amidst their suffering? They usually have the least amount of resources to allow that sort of generosity.
They've already lost everything presumably, so there's no second or thought left to sacrifice.
They just need it to be over, they just need it to end.)

If someone wants to use someone else's suicide to outright victimize themselves, just because they bore witness to it..or were in the vicinity, I no longer take them seriously as a worthwhile human being. Especially if they're a stranger or if they actually use their own perspective to obfuscate the perspective of the person who committed suicide.
(They're not in the same ballpark.)
Unless you've been a proponent of the right to die, unless you have made it your life's mission to avoid, prevent and alleviate the suffering around you at any given opportunity..then you've got no ground to stand on as far as clutching pearls.

Wake up. That's what people need to do.
Wake the hell up. Abject suffering exists.
If you don't want to see it up close and personal, if you don't want to see the result of it, if you want to pretend your hands were ever clean at all (nobody's are), if you want to remain in your rose-tinted bubbles where you don't care about anything but yourself and yours…then don't make a fuss when someone jumps in front of a train or thrusts their body off a building and comes crashing into your willfully ignorant little world.


Why is the burden and the blame..the incredible expectations, always placed on the shoulders of those who are already bearing the weight of this world's dastardly flaws?
Are we really going to pontificate over this, when we are talking about people who are by and large..unable to so much as consider their next breath.

Containing the misery is not the good deed and the proper thing that so many seem to claim it as.
Protecting other people from the truth..and the consequences, and their senses from regarding it all..only makes it easier for society to sweep the worst of itself under the rug, to allow the filth to fester and subject more people to far worse fates than witnessing a stranger's.

I've had enough of that sort of thinking.
Empathy is hardly ever born from being shielded from horrors, but apathy and myopia certainly are.

 

[WonderingSoul]

I completely understand what you are saying. I think people choosing to CTB by train should be a wake-up call. However, I don't agree on the method itself. I wouldn't want to put that burden on someone else.

 

[mia_qwerty]

Any form of suicide there will always be someone who finds the body and is traumatised by it. Better if the police find you as they are more prepared to deal with it I think anyway. The way i will probably go I think my parents will find me and I'm devastated about that. But I don't know what else to do. I'm not saying being hit by a train is ok. But I can't see how to avoid traumatising someone sadly.

 

[the_dude]

I completely understand what you are saying. I think people choosing to CTB by train should be a wake-up call. However, I don't agree on the method itself. I wouldn't want to put that burden on someone else.

What the burden though? It's not their fault, it's slightly worse than finding a suicide corpse. Which no matter what unless you die in space or jump in a valcano is going to happen. Might even be your family that finds you which is worse than a train conductor seeing a suicide imo.

 

[WonderingSoul]

What the burden though? It's not their fault, it's slightly worse than finding a suicide corpse. Which no matter what unless you die in space or jump in a valcano is going to happen. Might even be your family that finds you which is worse than a train conductor seeing a suicide imo.

The burden of someone dying right in front of them. I understand the family finding the body, but why include someone else in it ? It's why I don't recommend the train method.

 

[LastFlowers]

I agree that it's terrible that people feel forced into this situation in the first place. I do still struggle with the train method though to be honest. Even with jumping- yes- it could still traumatize someone to see that but- it was still very much that person's own actions that lead to their death there. I don't know with the train method. The driver probably must realise there's nothing they could have done in time but it could very well be horrific for them. Would you be ok with just casually running someone over one day? Even if it wasn't your fault? Similar to the death by cop method- it's getting someone to unwittingly murder you. They may be fine with that but- they may not at all.

I guess I struggle with the whole- my life is shit and people are shit- so- I'm going to possibly mess up this random person's life and not worry about it. Ultimately- there are other options- there's jumping, hanging. It isn't actually the case that someone has no other choice. They choose that and I guess either don't consider the possible consequences, they just think everyone is cold hearted and won't care or- they don't care.

It's difficult because I realise some people are utterly desperate and I agree- it's our governments who back us into this corner. Still- it likely won't be them who is affected. It won't be them who tries to slam on the brakes too late or who has to walk the tracks picking up body parts. The problem with it is- it likely hurts the wrong people.

Yea, it's not black and white, but I think the main issue is that when people resort to such methods..the response and the complaints end up as far more disturbing, malignant and eyebrow-raising than the act itself. Callous.
Basically solidifying the more general reasons why a person would kill themselves that way in the first place. Comes full circle.


Personally, even as someone who is prone to astronomical levels of guilt (any solutions to which, were denied to me)..where the scenario you gave is concerned I would just be glad that the person was able to end their suffering, while still wishing that they never had to suffer in the first place.

I don't think someone who has been pushed to the brink would react the same way as someone who has not.
I've been there, so my first thought would be
"I get it".


Beyond my other reasoning in my previous comment, I also think that some people simply don't want to die in a dark, hidden hole of shame.
I think there is a desire, a very human desire..to be seen.
And very often there are suicidal people who have walked this earth as invisible ghosts..so when they decide to go in the way they do, perhaps they are saying "Here I am"
"Regard me, I existed, I suffered, and now this is the only choice I'm left with. LOOK at me.
I am real."

And again, I don't blame them if this ever is the case.

It's unfortunate that humans and their actions are like dominoes, none of us exist in a vacuum, but that's always been the case.

Although I still think that no matter what options there are to expedite death..the rest of the privileged populace should never be permitted to an "out of sight, out of mind" avenue out of responsibility for giving a damn/continuing their lives in a much more aware, compassionate manner.
Even a sanctioned, guaranteed option is not going to erase the suffering that leads to its necessity.

 

[Lost Magic]

My old friend's brother (who I didn't really know well) jumped under a train not that long ago. He must have been going through pure hell to have to resort to such a brutal method. Still, I wish that these people had access to more peaceful methods so that they didn't resort to these horrifying measures in the first place. But like others have said a lot of train drivers do get severe PTSD from these types of suicides and many quit the job because of it and end up scarred for life. That's just not fair on them at all, in my opinion. If I go down, I'm not taking anybody down with me.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Although I still think that no matter what options there are to expedite death..the rest of the privileged populace should never be permitted to an "out of sight, out of mind" avenue out of responsibility for giving a damn/continuing their lives in a much more aware, compassionate manner.
Even a sanctioned, guaranteed option is not going to erase the suffering that leads to its necessity.

I do understand your points and they are fair. I guess the trouble I have is the assumptions. The assumption that the people directly involved in participating in this person's brutal suicide are a part of this 'privelaged populace'. That they are going along living their carefree lives and then this happens to disturb their world view. It's just as likely they are struggling with life themselves. They could be deeply empathetic people who never get over this.

I agree with the sentiment by the way- why should the people in charge in particular be spared seeing how much people are suffering? But- it's unlikely they will be directly involved with this. This method doesn't target people directly, it's just random whoever is on shift that day.

I agree though. Some people's responses are appalling. Anger because their day has been inconvenienced. Kind of says it all really. People sometimes want out because this world doesn't give a shit about them.

 

[LastFlowers]

I do understand your points and they are fair. I guess the trouble I have is the assumptions. The assumption that the people directly involved in participating in this person's brutal suicide are a part of this 'privelaged populace'. That they are going along living their carefree lives and then this happens to disturb their world view. It's just as likely they are struggling with life themselves. They could be deeply empathetic people who never get over this.

I agree with the sentiment by the way- why should the people in charge in particular be spared seeing how much people are suffering? But- it's unlikely they will be directly involved with this. This method doesn't target people directly, it's just random whoever is on shift that day.

I agree though. Some people's responses are appalling. Anger because their day has been inconvenienced. Kind of says it all really. People sometimes want out because this world doesn't give a shit about them.

I think if they're struggling, then they're probably already familiar enough with suffering to be somewhat desensitized, if that makes sense.
There's not really anything to get over necessarily, because it didn't happen to them directly and they'd already have the experience or history to digest the event in a more understanding and less "woe is me, the witness" manner.
It would be a drop in the bucket of nightmares that people going through awful times are already privy to.
I think people like us would be more likely to have an odd mixture of being unfazed but also cognitively upset that yet another person succumbed to being corned by life.
Empathy and wisdom would temper the shock or self-interest.

I find that most people who make a big deal out of witnessing another person's demise, don't have much else to cling to as far as detriments in their lives..so they get hung up on victimizing themselves via another person's victimhood. Happens with the living as well, to one another, and even family members or friends might use someone's death to gain attention and sympathy for themselves.
The dead cannot protest, after all.

It's different if someone manages to frame it as putting the deceased's pain before their own.
If they're tactful about it and put it in perspective, then I don't really have an issue with them stating that they've been somewhat negatively affected, as a stranger.

But yes, anyone who was actually In some form of control of the train, may have a visceral response that ends up affecting how they perform.
Some people who hit animals with their cars are afraid to ever drive again, but it's less of a trauma in the strictest sense and more of a heightened fear of something bad happening again, which interferes with performance.
That sort of thing is inevitable, but suicidal people resorting to this method could be avoided if we placed the blame where it actually belonged.


It's true what you suggest..that the people with the most power or the highest positions, are the hardest to reach..they can afford to be the most distant from these atrocities, but I don't necessarily mean to say any one person should be "targeted", I mean to say that nobody should be spared the reality of things.
That's why everyone else needs to have zero tolerance for twisting the narrative or placing blame where it doesn't really belong.
If the majority is unable to look away..thus unable to play along with the status quo, then the status quo will no longer be the status quo.

Yup, you're spot on about the "inconvenience", that always seems to be the main gripe.
Suffering people are an inconvenience in life, talking about their suffering is an inconvenience, and even ending their suffering is an inconvenience.
It's so insane to me that people can actually put "inconvenience" above the horrendous torment of their fellow man.
It's like hearing people complain about the smell of smoke while walking over a burning body…and then hearing them still whine about it weeks later, while being so far removed from the incident.
Their concern not being the person who inhabited the corpse, but the merely unpleasant pollution of their sinuses.

 

[hibikikyuxx]

All I'm gonna say to that is this: Both sides are right.

The people who choose the train method aren't selfish, they're just suffering so much and have no other methods available. And the people who point out that the train method will probably traumatize someone, aren't wrong either. However, the one to blame here, like always, is society. Because society is so corrupt and sadistic, there are no available painless ways to ctb. Imagine if euthanasia was legalized. So much pain could be avoided. Because society is so anti suicide, suicidal people are pretty much forced to choose methods like the train. It's either that or jumping. I'd imagine the drowning method would take too long unless you get drunk and take sleeping pills before you do it.

 

[Meditation guide]

The train method isn't rare where I live which is a few blocks from a train track. Recently, a woman drug addict was scheduled to go in to rehab for the fourth time and instead decided to die by train here. Since then they only run trains through in the middle of the night, that must have cut down on some of them. They also never blow their horns, they used to blast the horns when they were going through town.

 

[kilowatt]

I am going to CTB by the end of this month using that method. Every time I mention that here I developed a little habit of including phrases like ''please don't tell me it's a bad method, I've been planning this for a long time'' or ''I wouldn't have picked this if i had a better choice''. I understand the concern people have regarding the driver or passangers, but at the same time my intention is not to traumatize anyone. I wouldn't complain if my train was 30 minutes late because of a serious problem like a suicide. Most of the time people lack empathy for the dying person.
I don't think a dead body on the tracks is any more traumatizing than, for example, a dead body found hung in your bathroom. All methods affect others in a way or another, but I feel like, telling someone to just pick another method when train is REALLY their last resort, is just invalidating.
I personally think both sides are valid.

People don't think about trains having a conductor when they do that in my opinion. I mean it doesn't occur to them probably. (please don't misinterpret this as me being ok with it, as I know someone will do.)

We do. At least from my own personal research, I've found a lot of the people picking this method, including myself, finding ways to minimize the damage that occurs to the ones involved: driver and passangers. Personally I choose to do it after the sun has set, to not be seen properly, and preferably at a time where a lot of the trains are emptier.
Yeah, train is a desperate measure, but that doesn't mean people don't think about the outcome. A lot of these people would definitely pick another method if they could.

 

[subhuman metalhead]

Suicide by train is a very traumatic one for those who witness it, not to mention a very gory and violent scene afterwards. When someone is suicidal, they tend to not think about what others would think when coming across their dead body. In any scenario really; whether it's overdose or jumping or something else, the sight of a dead body is not pretty and extremely traumatic to see. I would know, as I've seen a person's body after committing suicide. It was bloody, messy, and smelled horrid.