Discussion I feel like SN failures could be due to tolerance

[heydude56]

I saw some people take 25g and fail on this forum, and while it could be due to all sorts of reasons, I personally think difference in tolerance to SN could be one of the reasons.
I don't know if there were any studies done on this specifically, but for example tolerance to alcohol varies widely from individual to individual so maybe some people can straight up take the whole 25g and just survive..?

Any thoughts on this?

 

[DoubleYefreitor]

Tolerance is something aquired from being steadly exposed to a poision over a long period of time. Its probably not possible for someone to be consuming that much SN in their daily life. Maybe if they ate a ton of cured meat every day? But even then curing salts contain like 1% SN. I think other factors like incorrect dosage, low purity, vomiting the solution, ect ect are much more likely for the reason failed CTB attempt. There are so many variables when it comes to SN and unfortunately none of us have a way to test them scientifically lol.

 

[AshenRose]

The variables are endless, the possibilities for failure enormous. Taking poison is not the equivalent of being sucked into a plane's engine.

 

[heydude56]

Tolerance is something aquired from being steadly exposed to a poision over a long period of time. Its probably not possible for someone to be consuming that much SN in their daily life. Maybe if they ate a ton of cured meat every day? But even then curing salts contain like 1% SN. I think other factors like incorrect dosage, low purity, vomiting the solution, ect ect are much more likely for the reason failed CTB attempt. There are so many variables when it comes to SN and unfortunately none of us have a way to test them scientifically lol.

Tolerance to alcohol is completely genetic tho. Would SN be different?

 

[DoubleYefreitor]

Tolerance to alcohol is completely genetic tho. Would SN be different?

Alcohol tolerance is partially genetic but not fully genetic. You can probably handle way more alcohol now than when you did on your 21st birthday (or whatever age you first started drinking), and alcoholics infamously need to drink much way more to get drunk than the average person. Genetics do affect how someone tolerates alcohol but its not as big of a factor as exposure is. Humans have also been drinking alcohol for thousands and thousands of years so we have genes that help us digest alcohol but we haven't been eating SN for that long (and also weren't consuming very large quantities of it recreationally). It could be possible for people to have an inherited tolerance for nitrites but even if that is the case its probably has little effect when taking a lethal dose and its not something you can control anyway.

 

[heydude56]

Alcohol tolerance is partially genetic but not fully genetic. You can probably handle way more alcohol now than when you did on your 21st birthday (or whatever age you first started drinking), and alcoholics infamously need to drink much way more to get drunk than the average person. Genetics do affect how someone tolerates alcohol but its not as big of a factor as exposure is. Humans have also been drinking alcohol for thousands and thousands of years so we have genes that help us digest alcohol but we haven't been eating SN for that long (and also weren't consuming very large quantities of it recreationally). It could be possible for people to have an inherited tolerance for nitrites but even if that is the case its probably has little effect when taking a lethal dose and its not something you can control anyway.

Alcohol tolerance, when it comes to the point of blackout, is actually 99% genetics. You can get used to alcohol, so you can act more normal until the point of blackout but you can't change the blackout point no matter how used to alcohol you get.
I'm not sure how SN would work tho..

 

[madameviolette]

I think for the same reason euthanasia doesn't work on some dogs

It depends on your vascular system, blood pressure, heart condition. Also hypothermia and dehydration will make it likely to fail.

More vasoconstriction, low circulation and low blood pressure > doesn't work as fast, doesn't penetrate in all tissues.


I could consume 25g of SN and nothing would happen. Because I have very bad circulation and vasoconstriction. Medications that would put a horse out do nothing for me.

 

[Macedonian1987]

There was a person who consumed 25 grams of SN and we all wondered how he could survive such a high dosage and in the end judging by his description it turned out to be something completely else. The powder he had was probably sodium nitrate.

There is no such thing as SN tolerance. Unless you consume a small dosage every day and feel sick for days. Which nobody does.

 

[heydude56]

There was a person who consumed 25 grams of SN and we all wondered how he could survive such a high dosage and in the end judging by his description it turned out to be something completely else. The powder he had was probably sodium nitrate.

There is no such thing as SN tolerance. Unless you consume a small dosage every day and feel sick for days. Which nobody does.

So would you say 25g without vomitting would have 100% success rate?

 

[Macedonian1987]

So would you say 25g without vomitting would have 100% success rate?

Yes. The problem is often due to poor storage: the sodium nitrite has degraded into sodium nitrate and the purity can drop significantly. This degradation reduces its lethality

 

[heydude56]

Yes. The problem is often due to poor storage: the sodium nitrite has degraded into sodium nitrate and the purity can drop significantly. This degradation reduces its lethality

If I haven't opened the lid yet, will the purity be fine even after a while?

 

[FadingSnowFake]

I don't see how anyone can build up a tolerance, but something to consider may be body weight. I read a recommendation of 35gm for over 100kg, I think in Vizzy's thread.

 

[heydude56]

I don't see how anyone can build up a tolerance, but something to consider may be body weight. I read a recommendation of 35gm for over 100kg, I think in Vizzy's thread.

I think I worded it wrong... I guess genetic resistance or vulnerability would be more accurate to what I was trying to say

 

[Macedonian1987]

If I haven't opened the lid yet, will the purity be fine even after a while?

If the package is air-tight so that moisture is unable to enter it and if the expiry date is alright, then your SN should be good. My SN came in an airtight bottle, but just as a precaution i placed it into 2 zip lock baggies. I plan on using it in a year or two. Little extra protection wont hurt. Also I store mine in a pitch black place, as light can also degrade the SN.

 

[FadingSnowFake]

I think I worded it wrong... I guess genetic resistance or vulnerability would be more accurate to what I was trying to say

I get it, like my body could always tolerate way less alcohol than my friends. Maybe some bodies are better at fighting disease or toxins than others. As for SN, I think it would be a miracle for someone to survive 25g of >98.5% purity as per recommended protocol if the person is not found too soon.

 

[heydude56]

I get it, like my body could always tolerate way less alcohol than my friends. Maybe some bodies are better at fighting disease or toxins than others. As for SN, I think it would be a miracle for someone to survive 25g of >98.5% purity as per recommended protocol if the person is not found too soon.

Resistance to alcohol varies so widely from person to person that I wonder if it could also be the case for SN as well.. Although when I asked GPT, it said resistance to SN likely doesn't vary a lot

If the package is air-tight so that moisture is unable to enter it and if the expiry date is alright, then your SN should be good. My SN came in an airtight bottle, but just as a precaution i placed it into 2 zip lock baggies. I plan on using it in a year or two. Little extra protection wont hurt. Also I store mine in a pitch black place, as light can also degrade the SN.

I'm worried the moment the lid is opened, it might affect the purity over time.. since in order to move it to air-tight bags I would have to open the lid

 

[Pale_Rider]

I think I can see what your saying. One person could have significantly more hemoglobin then another maybe? Requiring a higher dose of sodium nitrite? Some medicalese answer to your posit. Probable called something other then tolerance maybe?

 

[heydude56]

I think I can see what your saying. One person could have significantly more hemoglobin then another maybe? Requiring a higher dose of sodium nitrite? Some medicalese answer to your posit. Probable called something other then tolerance maybe?

Yeah I think tolerance was the wrong word to use in this context

 

[FadingSnowFake]

Resistance to alcohol varies so widely from person to person that I wonder if it could also be the case for SN as well.. Although when I asked GPT, it said resistance to SN likely doesn't vary a lot

I'm worried the moment the lid is opened, it might affect the purity over time.. since in order to move it to air-tight bags I would have to open the lid

I don't know much about chemistry or biology, but I think it depends on the body's metabolic processes required to digest whatever we ingest. If I understand correctly, certain poisons are lethal to the human body, and in my mind, SN could be similar to cyanide as mentioned below, in terms of lethality.

Mithridatism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

However, in some cases, it is possible to build up a metabolic tolerance against specific non-biological poisons. This involves conditioning the liver to produce more of the particular enzymes that metabolize these poisons. For example, heavy drinkers develop a tolerance to the effects of alcohol.[10] However, metabolic tolerance can also lead to accumulation of the less toxic metabolized compound which can slowly damage the liver. With alcohol this generally leads to conditions such as alcoholic fatty liver disease.[11]

Metabolic tolerance is not effective on all types of non-biological poisons. Exposure to certain toxic substances, such as hydrofluoric acid and heavy metals, is either lethal or has little to no effect. A minor exception is cyanide, which can be metabolized by the liver. The enzyme rhodanese converts the cyanide into the much less toxic thiocyanate.[12] This process allows humans to ingest small amounts of cyanide in food like apple seeds and survive small amounts of cyanide gas from fires and cigarettes. However, one cannot effectively condition the liver against cyanide, unlike alcohol. Relatively larger amounts of cyanide are still highly lethal because, while the body can produce more rhodanese, the process also requires large amounts of sulfur-containing substrates.[13]

 

[Macedonian1987]

I'm worried the moment the lid is opened, it might affect the purity over time.. since in order to move it to air-tight bags I would have to open the lid

If your SN is exposed to the air for a brief time while transferring it to another container, its degradation will be negligible.