Venting I don't understand how people are supposed to live for themselves

[Namelesa]

When I hear the phrase "live for yourself" I don't understand it. Why would I go through this repetitive painful existence for myself? If I cared about myself the most I would ctb as soon as possible (if I had any actual effective methods) as I ultimately know I wouldn't be disadvantaged in non existence when existence always had the chance to disadvantage me. Only other people who still exist actually benefit from my existence, not me as in non existence I can't want anything and can't feel any pain.

I think a worth of a person is what they provide to the world and to others. I am simply a steeping stone or stepladder or a tool to used for others to get what they want.

If people can use me to fulfill their own wants then then I am of worth but if they become disappointed in me or I don't meet what they want or upset them in away then I am flawed and of less worth. If they ultimately leave me then I am worthless and have failed as their tool. A discarded tool has no purpose and should be destroyed for its remains to be used for other things. I need that to not happen to make the suffering I am going through worth it, else if I make too many mistakes and they leave me when it would be morally better for me to die for myself and them and I should try my hardest to do whats morally best. I want to die for myself anyways so might as well also die to prevent people being disappointed in me. I wish I could have the option to die when I do completely fail someone else again but this torturous world doesn't understand a failure like me is best gone.

 

[sadalways]

I don't really understand that phrase either like, my life is shit and will continue to get worse, every day is just pain and overthinking, why would i want to live for myself. What's so fun about living in this world anyways, doing same shit everyday, working until you are old, and having to worry about sustaining yourself.

 

[Electra]

I guess what people mean by that is to "Do what you like instead of doing what other people want you to do".

 

[Namelesa]

I guess what people mean by that is to "Do what you like instead of doing what other people want you to do".

I would respond with that I would want to die but people don't like me doing that either. If I shouldn't live to satisfy others and instead focus on my wants then I would ctb if I had a effective method.

 

[Electra]

I would respond with that I would want to die but people don't like me doing that either. If I shouldn't live to satisfy others and instead focus on my wants then I would ctb if I had a effective method.

I definitely see your point. But in the phrase they use to "live for yourself", not "die for yourself" haha, that's too literal, but I mean, I can't give you an answer why this phrased is used or how to live for oneself. I understand your frustration with this. That phrase is being thrown around a lot!

 

[frommolecules2stars]

I guess what people mean by that is to "Do what you like instead of doing what other people want you to do".

And as if we can do that. That's the problem with the phrase, how are we supposed to live for ourselves if we are barred from doing what we want to do? I mean, that's just the basis of the environment— there are finite amounts of resources. So we do not have the freedom to live the way we want to live. And I would also argue we do not have free will (this is being studied in actual neuroscience). So the phrase falls short whenever someone tries to use it to convince one not to ctb. Even then it's hypocritical in the sense that they are telling someone to live life the way they want, but trying to convince them not to exercise their autonomy.

 

[Namelesa]

And as if we can do that. That's the problem with the phrase, how are we supposed to live for ourselves if we are barred from doing what we want to do? I mean, that's just the basis of the environment— there are finite amounts of resources. So we do not have the freedom to live the way we want to live. And I would also argue we do not have free will (this is being studied in actual neuroscience). So the phrase falls short whenever someone tries to use it to convince one not to ctb. Even then it's hypocritical in the sense that they are telling someone to live life the way they want, but trying to convince them not to exercise their autonomy.

I am different in this case as I don't really have an intrinsic reason to live for myself even if I was able to do whatever I wanted. I mostly only want to live to please others. My feelings and wants should come second as I am a tool.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I feel like that phrase is a 'best case scenario' type phrase. As in- people who are fortunate enough to be able to pursue a passion in life. That way, less things feel like a hardship or a chore. It's obviously more sustainable too. Someone say who loves researching something, playing a sport, caring for others will likely work harder and achieve more because they were lucky enough to find a vocation in life and pursue it. I guess when we are fighting against ourselves to do the things we need to do, it's so much harder. Of course, not everyone is fortunate enough to find something they are passionate about and, if they do, they may also not be able to pursue it in a gratifying way.

 

[Rymrgand]

I am different in this case as I don't really have an intrinsic reason to live for myself even if I was able to do whatever I wanted. I mostly only want to live to please others. My feelings and wants should come second as I am a tool.

But as you say, you want to feel as a "tool" and to please others, right? So, in a way, you also have feelings, and wants, and a "reason" to live. And I'm assuming that reason is not pleasing others, but to feel loved and wanted and accepted. (Or maybe I'm projecting my own feelings, I'm also a people pleaser).

In that case, it would be probably better if you found another reason to live, one that is more healthy. Wanting other people to be happy is good and normal (not as common as it should do tho), but living as a tool is pretty tiring for you and sometimes even for the people you are trying to please.

I think the ideal human would be someone who enjoys the happiness of everyone else, and therefore wants to help if something is going wrong, but who is able to be satisfied and to live a happy life without helping them.

But of course, life is not ideal.

 

[Namelesa]

But as you say, you want to feel as a "tool" and to please others, right? So, in a way, you also have feelings, and wants, and a "reason" to live. And I'm assuming that reason is not pleasing others, but to feel loved and wanted and accepted. (Or maybe I'm projecting my own feelings, I'm also a people pleaser).

In that case, it would be probably better if you found another reason to live, one that is more healthy. Wanting other people to be happy is good and normal (not as common as it should do tho), but living as a tool is pretty tiring for you and sometimes even for the people you are trying to please.

I think the ideal human would be someone who enjoys the happiness of everyone else, and therefore wants to help if something is going wrong, but who is able to be satisfied and to live a happy life without helping them.

But of course, life is not ideal.

I can be okay just doing things for people without recognition. I would want that but that isn't as important as the main goal of serving others. Recognition to me is knowing what I am doing is valuable to the person and so should continue to do that. Some times I can be pathetic when in a lot of pain try to prioritise myself but I later regret doing that as that goes away from the purpose of serving them.

Logically to me it makes no sense for me to live life for a different reason as if I am not doing the most I can to please others and focusing on myself then it would be best for me to die as I would most benefit from dying as there I don't have any problems. My existence is only useful to others, not myself. Life feels so repetitive and boring without pleasing others. To me trying to focus on myself rarely makes me feel better.

 

[Rymrgand]

I can be okay just doing things for people without recognition. I would want that but that isn't as important as the main goal of serving others. Recognition to me is knowing what I am doing is valuable to the person and so should continue to do that. Some times I can be pathetic when in a lot of pain try to prioritise myself but I later regret doing that as that goes away from the purpose of serving them.

Logically to me it makes no sense for me to live life for a different reason as if I am not doing the most I can to please others and focusing on myself then it would be best for me to die as I would most benefit from dying as there I don't have any problems. My existence is only useful to others, not myself. Life feels so repetitive and boring without pleasing others. To me trying to focus on myself rarely makes me feel better.

I see. If your only way to cope with life is pleasing other people, then there's not really alternatives to this that don't involve CTB.

I would say that maybe you could find other ways to cope, but if I thought that everyone is recoverable then I wouldn't be preparing my own CTB plan.