Venting I don’t see the tragedy in suicide

[FuneralCry]

I don't see the tragedy in suicide, rather for me suicide would be something positive as it's preventing unnecessary suffering, in my case suicide is the way to escape from the futile and torturous burden of existing as a human.

There's no sadness in ceasing to exist, rather permanently not existing is all that's ideal for me, I only wish for non-existence, what terrifies me is how a human can potentially exist for so long. It disturbs me how one can suffer so much yet not die and suicide is the release from that, to have the option to die peacefully would be such a relief for me, there's nothing desirable about being trapped in this existence for decades on end just to be tortured by old age rather such sounds so incredibly hellish to me.

I feel like when people refer to other people's suicide as "tragic" then they are just being selfish and thinking about themselves because ceasing to exist cannot possibly be bad for those who no longer suffer here, rather I see those people as very fortunate. There's no tragedy in peacefully not existing for all eternity, I envy those who no longer exist as after all nobody can be harmed by being eternally unaware with the non-existent unable to mourn for how they lack the ability to suffer in an existence so undesirable.

 

[black and white]

No matter if it's suicide or natural death.

Death is mostly sad for those who stay, because they miss someone. We never seen anybody coming back and say "hey i died, i was so sad!". Actually i did study anthropology, there is clearly a link between the conscious of death, the fear of some about death and the development about spiritual stuffs (in a second time, religions were also a great tools, to manipulate people about social conditions). Funeral rituals are the center of spiritual stuffs, at a point that even the most modern and still existing religions, try to consider life as a temporary state before an eternal life, or cycles through different lives, whatever... With always this idea of challenge. Like life is some kind of test and exam you have to pass and eventually succeed for the next step etc.

If we're honnest , we simply don't know what there is after (or not). So everyone pretending there is something, and also everyone pretending there is not, just pretending and believing things based on nothing. This universe is kind of crazy, but it's also above our understandng. And we don't know what is life, if there's a meaning; and if there is one: we simply can't understand it. But the human beings like to consider themselves as very important. So they created different kind of religions and pretending this and that to make the others believes that there is a meaning, a creator, a plan etc. But there is no proof of all that, just come from the imagination of some people, to manipulate the others.

All this sadness and fear around death, is strange. Life experience is weird, not really comfortable and really destabilizing on many points. Nobody really knows what this means. But almost everyone are closed in this worship, like life is so amazing and unbelievable...
So for them suicide is the ultimate tragedy, because it means someone was so desesperate, was feeling so bad, suffering so much that they decided to end their life experience, which is supposed to be so wonderful. They are so sure that life experience is so amazing that yeah suicide just appears as the ultimate tragedy to them. ok...

Yet if they look around them, to normal people i mean, they won't find so much happy people. Many think we are crazy, but the thing is i don't see so much happy people around. They don't like their job, they divorce, marry again, divorce again. Where is this supposed happyness? What are we missing? Going to cinema on saturday night? Do reproduce and have children... Oh yeah the ultimate happyness... children, no comment...

there's no happyness, nor sadness in life or in death... Human beings, existence doesn't have real meanings. no matter if we die, we are very small grain of sand in a giant universe; we're nothing but chemical and biological processes. there is no goal, nothing to enjoy in this experience. Just a lot of illusions from our brains, and people hold on to that to give themselves, reasons to continue.

We're even not a good species. Look what w've done to the planet, to other species, to our own... Nothing to be proud, we are a shame... This so called consciousness and big brains, and what... just being fucking destructive? We've been too far already, i don't think it will last for very long, and it's surely better this way.

 

[Chinaski]

No matter if it's suicide or natural death.

Death is mostly sad for those who stay, because they miss someone. We never seen anybody coming back and say "hey i died, i was so sad!".

Yeah death is fucking great, beautiful in fact, love switching on the news and wondering why the fuck normies are complaining about palestinian genocide, I'm like hey maybe these npcs should study some goddam anthropology

 

[black and white]

Yeah death is fucking great, beautiful in fact, love switching on the news and wondering why the fuck normies are complaining about palestinian genocide, I'm like hey maybe these npcs should study some goddam anthropology

we will always come back on some same shemes. People need to find a meaning in their existence. In this western world of so called free speech, many people think they define themselves as a person by choosing some values, ethics, and mosty, making it public. "i care for the palestinian disaster, because i have a morality and values, and i'm someone good". but in fact, what do they know about palestine, what do they really know about this conflict that started 77 years ago? what do they really understand about geo-politics? I won't defend one side or the other, This example just shows what i was talking about, we're just a damn insane and toxic species...
they feel concern, about a country they don't know, people they don't know, without understanding how the situation arrived at this point. But that's ok, to let people die in their own streets, that's ok to be a jerk with others at school, at work everywhere, even with your own lover... That's ok to cheat, that's... that's ok to let their government make them modern slaves. It's ok to confront themselves and fight with some other polarized people from their own country which think differents. Claiming peace for another unknown people when you're not able to create peace within your own neighbourhood?
Since 20 years, i tend to call that "the era of opinions". Hugely helped by social media. Remember 30 years ago, the big thing was to say "hey i was on tv, i'm someone, i exist". But now it's about express what you think, like if anyone do care. They feel the urge of expressing their opnions here and there, on internet, or in some events, to feel like they exist, like their voice count.
The society is polarized, because it serves the master. As far as we fight with each other (actually the new fashion is progressism against conservatism),we don't fight them... This is all bullshit and people are enough stupid to fall into it.


Not so much people can understand that suicide is about humanism. They don't know what is empathy. They can't understand that highly sensitive people or sentenced to just suffer in this toxic world. I'm curious about funeralcry, i don't know her, but i really think this kind of disgust for humanity can only come from humanist people. There is a breaking point, where you just see (and also handle) how people are... For the most clever and sensitive of us, it usually starts really early even before being adults, and we can never recover of this.
So this is pointless to try make them understand, how we feel, how we see things.. they just can't.
They will be blocked in this idea of suicide=tragedy, because the only suicide they know is romeo and juliet. And when it appears in their own life, they will miss a parent, brother, lover or something; and they just don't understand what happened. So what is sad, that someone decided to stop???? Or the fact that the closest people from that person don't understand what happened? Which is another way to say, they didn't understand this person they pretend to love... Maybe thats one of the reason the person decided to stop....?? People around you not really understanding you, judging you, makes you suffer.... But they are just selfish, not that smart and with bias and preconceptions, clichés, so it's beyond their understanding.

 

[Dot]

Thre r mny ppl wh/ wantd t/ liv bt wre feelng forcd in2 ctb bcse of cirmstnces or 2 escpe pain

imo n.e1 wh/ wantd 2 liv bt wh/ flt thy hd 0 othr optn wld b prt of a tragc ctb - = tragc tht sme1 shld b 4rced in2 endng a lfe thy wantd

= lke sayng 'cancr cn nevr b tragc bcse thy r nt suffrng aftr thy r ded' - whn plnty of ppl wth cancr wantd 2 liv

 

[Chinaski]

. "i care for the palestinian disaster, because i have a morality and values, and i'm someone good". but in fact, what do they know about palestine, what do they really know about this conflict that started 77 years ago? what do they really understand about geo-politics? I won't defend one side or the other,

You're right, maybe l haven't done enough research into 'people being killed en masse' to fully understand the Nuances!! If only l had the superior insight of the Online Dipshit i too would be able to recognise the depth of intellect invested into the enlightened view of death being Totally Fucking Great Actually but alas l am a mere neurotypical lumpenprole, apologies all

 

[black and white]

You're right, maybe l haven't done enough research into 'people being killed en masse' to fully understand the Nuances!! If only l had the superior insight of the Online Dipshit i too would be able to recognise the depth of intellect invested into the enlightened view of death being Totally Fucking Great Actually but alas l am a mere , apologies all

what do you wanna say?? Mass murder = death... mass murder is horrible ... Suicide is death so suicide is horrible? It's not because the final purpose (=> death) is common that those things are linked. There are no link at all. And if you want to discredit funeralcry opinion, i don't think the palestine subject is relevant.
If you disagree with funeralcry because from your own perspective she seems to see death as a beautiful thing, alright. But have you ever tried to understand her? Do you now her? i don't think so. Do you know why she thinks this way, because from your own perspective (and from the majority of people) death is a tragedy? so you think she is crazy to not join this concept? Everyone has to agree that death is a horrible thing?

Look you have the right to think life is beautiful... If you feel fine this way, i won't judge you you know. I don't know you, you don't know me. And thinking we could try to understand each other from few web messages, would be utopist.

but i don't get the point about coming here, to judge people or even trying to ridiculize them? You have posted 3k messages here, this is quite a lot!
Not sure where you wanna drive us from there but i can say it smells booze from the other side of the world. You know we can disagree and still respect each other. We can also just ignore some point of view we don't understand.

But please feel free to disagree and explain us what is so beautiful in life, and what is so horribe in death... you're welcome to have your point of view and express it.

 

[Chinaski]

what do you wanna say?? Mass murder = death... mass murder is horrible ... Suicide is death so suicide is horrible? It's not because the final purpose (=> death) is common that those things are linked. There are no link at all. And if you want to discredit funeralcry opinion, i don't think the palestine subject is relevant.
If you disagree with funeralcry because from your own perspective she seems to see death as a beautiful thing, alright. But have you ever tried to understand her? Do you now her? i don't think so. Do you know why she thinks this way, because from your own perspective (and from the majority of people) death is a tragedy? so you think she is crazy to not join this concept? Everyone has to agree that death is a horrible thing?



But please feel free to disagree and explain us what is so beautiful in life, and what is so horribe in death... you're welcome to have your point of view and express it.

Thank you for being so generous as to afford me this opportunity.

Death is grim, unromantic, ignominious. You shit and piss yourself. Some old bastard on the minimum wage turns up, carts you off, dumps you in a fridge and you're done. I've seen it more than once. I'm okay with this, it's an unacknowledged fact of life, just as we piss and masturbate we also die. It's a universal experience which happens to all and it's not a positive aspect of the human condition to find oneself wishing for this experience to take place sooner rather than later, but here we are.

If, on the other hand, you consider death, the actual ceasing to exist, in all its ignominity and grainy, stark brutality, to be a romantic whimsy and a thing of beauty to be marvelled and desired, then as much as I'm fundamentally opposed to encouraging suicide l am going to internally question why such a person doesn't literally go away and die instead of seeking to educate the unenlightened living by way of writing tedious essays on the internet.

You're just an overly compassionate, selfless individual - there's no place for you on this forum. Off you pop.

Sorry is there an approved philosophical line one must subscribe to here, is this no longer a forum for the suicidally depressed but one for teenage philosophers instead, idgi, please explain

 

[black and white]

Thank you for being so generous as to afford me this opportunity.

Death is grim, unromantic, ignominious. You shit and piss yourself. Some old bastard on the minimum wage turns up, carts you off, dumps you in a fridge and you're done. I've seen it more than once. I'm okay with this, it's an unacknowledged fact of life, just as we piss and masturbate we also die. It's a universal experience which happens to all and it's not a positive aspect of the human condition to find oneself wishing for this experience to take place sooner rather than later, but here we are.

If, on the other hand, you consider death, the actual ceasing to exist, in all its ignominity and grainy, stark brutality, to be a romantic whimsy and a thing of beauty to be marvelled and desired, then as much as I'm fundamentally opposed to encouraging suicide l am going to internally question why such a person doesn't literally go away and die instead of seeking to educate the unenlightened living by way of writing tedious essays on the internet.

"Death is grim, unromantic, ignominious".... just as life maybe? why life should be considered wonderful, romantic but death not? Death is just part of the process.

"l am going to internally question why such a person doesn't literally go away and die instead of seeking to educate the unenlightened living by way of writing tedious essays on the internet." => but her expressing some feelings and her vision about life/death, or you trying to confront her with your different vision of life/death... where is the difference?

You do have a vulgar and raw conception of life yourself obviously. (shit, piss, old bastard, masturbate, ignominity, grainy, stark brutality...). So you do agree that life isnt that beautiful, but don't understand she's disgusted by it. Maybe you're "okay with it" but some are not...
and you also think "not positive to find oneself wishing for this experience to take place sooner rather than later".
finally, what irritates you is, she seems pathetic to hate life at this point, but not dying and coming on internet to express that. But once again, what do you know about her condition? Maybe she don't succeed to commit suicide? Maybe she can't.
You may find that pathetic but maybe she just need that. I'm here since just few days, oviously everyday she needs to express some dark thoughts, why jumping on her and be hard? Do you think it will help her in any way (to live or to die, whatever)?
You said it very well yourself, life itself is something pathetic, vulgar; you just have your ways to express it, she has another. Can't you understand that behind this romanticization of death and suicide is just a way to express her disgust for life? I don't think she's fantasizing about death, really. I think she just digust life and as she consider death as the end of it, death appears sweet to her, period.

So we could question her what she is doing here, what she's seeking by spreading such messages, as we could question you what you are doing here spreading such messages. It comes to a point like you're saying "do as I say but not as I do"; and you finally do exactly what you are reproaching to her. That's why i don't get the point.
Everyone has his way to express things from the inside. Both of you do, You may find her way pathetic but actually she's talking generally without attacking anyone. You are doing the same kind of things but by attacking members directly. You think that's better? That's the lesson of the day?

Honnestly if people are tired of her messages, then just don't read them. I just hope, it could bring some reliefs to her in some ways...

 

[Chinaski]

"Death is grim, unromantic, ignominious".... just as life maybe? why life should be considered wonderful, romantic but death not? Death is just part of the process.

Maybe life is not always a barrel of laughs and death is not always an achingly gorgeous and transcendental experience, some people may live well and die badly, others may have their lives violently taken from them in an act as far from "beautiful" as it's possible to get (see "the news"), others may spend their entire lives pretending they've got some third eye view, some elevated insight borne of superior learning, on the pseudo-philosophy of actually killing yourself before hitting their deathbed in their ninth decade and realising they've totally fucking wasted it all, different strokes l guess

Honnestly if people are tired of her messages, then just don't read them. I just hope, it could bring some reliefs to her in some ways...

What's this diversionary white-knightery got to do with anything, I'm not talking to FC, l appreciate she is the main character at all times but literally nothing I've said here is directed at her specifically

 

[black and white]

Maybe life is not always a barrel of laughs and death is not always an achingly gorgeous and transcendental experience, some people may live well and die badly, others may have their lives violently taken from them in an act as far from "beautiful" as it's possible to get (see "the news"), others may spend their entire lives pretending they've got some third eye view, some elevated insight borne of superior learning, on the pseudo-philosophy of actually killing yourself before hitting their deathbed in their ninth decade and realising they've totally fucking wasted it all, different strokes l guess

Life or death doesn't mean so much. Some try to put some meaning into their life or into their death, but it's just consideration from human brains, nothing more, and what's coming from our mind is pure imagination. You try to include different kind of existence styles or feelings, about life or death, i get the point. But all life or death are the same, in the sense that a human being is a human being; trying to legitimate by always taking extrem examples is kind of strange. I don't think there are happy people, and some sad people, and some lucky ones, unlucky ones and this and that. Mostly it's about the proportion to make yourself believe. More and more we tend to realise that imagination and beliefs is a huge part of the homo-sapiens singularity. Religion is about believe things you don't see, even engineering is about imagine stuff that don't exist and create them.

So i don't think there are some more transcendental experiences, some people living well (what is living well?) or this or that. I do consider the variety you're talking about. but i think it's more about the proportion to beliefs and to self-conditionning, self-persuasion that some might have and used to evolve in this existence. Some find this life experience interesting, some decide that they want and deserve some of the rarest and best places the world can offer, and some are not much interested.
I will give an example. You take two children, both will have been abused when they were young, maybe by their parents who were not really caring etc. One will succeed and even become someone recognized etc. The other will do suicide. What really distinguish them, at first they came from the same shitty childhood...??? The power of their minds... One took this disadvantage and make it a force for himself and a motivation to grow. And the other will be affected, sad depressed. The first one is not stronger, the second one is not weaker.
The main difference is there is one who will use his mind power to overcome the problem and transform his life in something he thinks better. Is the second one, too bad to not taking this way? Is it too weak? or inferior?? no... It is just two ways of following a path. And if you think the first one has overcome those old problems, is living well and succeeded something or whatever, okay cool. But i'm telling you, they are just two human beings and the universe doesn't really care if one became this and the other became that. We can find romantization everywhere. No right, nor wrong. People tend to manichaeanism because this comfort their own vision and and their own morale. but it's just imagination. It's about the mind talking to itself, and believeing many sort of things.

And human beings life experience is mostly about that. It doesn't really matter where you come from, if you live well or bad, coming from something sweet and soft are hard and tuff... It's all about your ability to use your mind power, to hypnotize yourself and decide what this life experience will be, how you wil transform it.


(For the rest i'm not doing white-knightery, and trying to deny that you attack FC is kind of hilarious ;) i would have thought you assume more, anyway...)

 

[Tesha]

Sorry is there an approved philosophical line one must subscribe to here, is this no longer a forum for the suicidally depressed but one for teenage philosophers instead, idgi, please explain

Clearly a sarcasm fail from me… my post wasn't serious…

 

[Chinaski]

Clearly a sarcasm fail from me… my post wasn't serious…

Damn. Please accept my sincere apology.